1. HankAZ's Avatar
    It comes down to a couple of things. In a free market economy, products succeed or fail on their own merits. Build a better mousetrap and customers will beat a path to your door. Build a shoddy, outdated model, and be left in the dust. The point of free market is just that - you can build and offer for sale anything you want. Buyers purchase your product (or don't) based on their perceived value of your item.

    One cannot dictate (or demand) equality in this regard. It’s totally driven by the market and the wants of the purchasing public. BlackBerry had its time in the sun, but the company did not continue to innovate - they rested on their accomplishments, expecting that their customer base would continue to feed at their trough. Apple, Windows and Android came along and built the better mousetrap, proverbially speaking, and BlackBerry was left wondering what happened.

    The current CEO is now complaining that the playing field is not level. That is not the case - they have just continued to fumble opportunity after opportunity. Now they want the app developers, whom they earlier shunned, to bail them out. Unfortunately for Chen, et al, that ship has sailed, and it ain’t coming back.
    Last edited by HankAZ; 01-24-2015 at 03:03 PM. Reason: clean up typos
    01-24-2015 01:21 PM
  2. iOS Gravity's Avatar
    We could use all these posts to write a thesis paper about BlackBerry and mail it to Chen.
    the_tech_eater and ritesh like this.
    01-24-2015 07:45 PM
  3. Coachbulldog's Avatar
    I am not trying to convert anyone here or trolling, just trying to make people understand that the suggestion is actually good. Had it come out of Cooks mouth, everyone would have worshipped it
    Suggestion is good? No, the suggestion is a desperate attempt to have governments bail out BlackBerry from their years of bad decisions and punish other platforms that make smart decisions. And the real kicker is by focusing on apps, Chen is trying to deflect the argument away from the massive failures of his company.

    There was a point when BlackBerry, known as RIM at the time, could have stayed in the game. But the arrogance of the upper management prevented it. In case you have forgotten or have chosen not to remember BlackBerry:

    1. Believed consumers would prefer phones with keyboards and reject touch screens.
    2. Discouraged app development, saying the only "app" a phone user needs is the browser.
    3. When finally released a phone without a keyboard it was the Storm. A total failure.
    4. The PlayBook fiasco
    5. Released a flagship device, Bold 9900/9930, without an auto focus camera


    Now, after all of this Chen cries that his company is being discriminated against by app developers and crying for a government bailout?!?!?! Sorry, no sensible person is going to take that line of reasoning seriously.

    Your "if Cook had said it...." comment is a pretty weak comeback. Tim Cook is not above being criticized here on iMore and if had said something a ridiculous as Chen did, I would be the first one to blast him for it. I am sure I would be followed by many more iDevice users.

    Edit: this is a long read, but shows that BlackBerry's current death watch is a result of much more more than lack of apps. And yes I know all of this happened before John Chen was on the scene, but Chen chose to take over as captain after the Titanic hit the iceberg.

    http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/21/27...ie-lost-empire
    mmcfly23, qbnkelt and mikeo007 like this.
    01-24-2015 10:40 PM
  4. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I don't think he is asking for source codes of the proprietory apps. All he says is that all developers should be mandated to make compatible apps across platforms.
    I fail to understand, why there is such a hue and cry, for a consumer friendly suggestion.
    Whether Chen is a tool or he has ulterior motives behind this suggestion should be ignored. What he is suggesting is actually beneficial for us.

    P.S. Blackberry has a better mail app than iOS's and BBM is way beyond imessage.

    P.P.S: I am not trying to convert anyone here or trolling, just trying to make people understand that the suggestion is actually good. Had it come out of Cooks mouth, everyone would have worshipped it
    Cook would have never told Apple users that apps are not important, sat on development for eight years, gone off to pooch Android apps, then gone off to Congress holding his breath and stamping his feet and having a temper tantrum.

    Blackberry tossed native app developers to the bin and went to the Amazon Appstore. He's getting what he set up. Developers left. Users left.

    Why did it take Blackberry what? ten years to release BBM cross platform? Why haven't they released Password Keeper for everyone forcing me to find a solution for my iPhone and Android and WP (which works WAY better by the way)? Why did BES take fifteen years to support Apple and Android? Because they are PROPIETARY software. Steve Jobs didn't have a hizzy fit in front of Congress DEMANDING BES support when Apple was entering the corporate world. The corporate world came to Apple as Apple grew and provided solutions for enterprise.

    As to email being better.....personally I find no advantage in the Hub. Actually I had to turn off my inbox being cluttered with FB and Twitter. I want mail to be mail. Therefore I prefer Apple's unified Inbox for *mail* and not cluttered with other messages. As far as EAS it's the SAME as everyone else. As far as mailing documents, no problem.....there is a NATIVE APP for that.

    So no. That preposterous idea that MY developers should be forced to code for YOUR device after YOUR platform saw that pooching off Android was not the solution they thought it would be, is not an idea that would have come out of Tim Cook's brain.




    Sent from my SEXY GORGEOUS AWESOME GOLD 128G iPhone 6
    Coachbulldog and mmcfly23 like this.
    01-25-2015 04:52 AM
  5. qbnkelt's Avatar
    All this is relevant for the developer, not the end user. Banking apps, Netflix app, etc which are developed by the inhouse developers, will have to develop an app for all platforms, without any personal bias or choice .
    IMO, that will be very good for end-users.
    Hypothetically, if your banking app was a mess on iOS and it worked great on BB and Android and Windows, you had 3 more options to choose from , rather than 2 now. And the more choices we have, the better it is.
    If course it's relevant to the developer. He is the one who is being forced to code for four platforms and support four platforms, in Chen's warped concept of app neutrality.

    RESPECT developers. Without them there is NOTHING.

    And how would I avail myself of an Android BofA app on my iPhone if mine were a mess? Some universal cross platform store for all apps to be available on all devices? How well has the Amazon solution run for BlackBerry? Not that great considering Chen's little aha moment. My solution is not working so I'll get Congress to legislate forced development after I kicked my native developers so far that they said buhbye. So how would this universal store work for me to choose an Android app for my iPhone if my iPhone one is a mess? Huh?????

    Come on. RESPECT devs. Then they will code for you. Don't tell them "oh hey by the way I'm advertising using Android apps through Amazon. Just do Android apps."

    RESPECT your users. Don't tell your users who bought a Blackberry "oh hey I haven't got native apps so either pooch Android apps through an unofficial app that's a well known secret until Google decides to take action against it OR go get Android apps at Amazon and oh hey by the way some won't work at all and some will be totally laggy and a small amount will work just fine..."

    Yah......it all goes to RESPECTING the communities that work for you or the ones that buy from you.

    I buy devices fully cognizant of what they do. I don't buy one device from one platform and pooch from another platform. I've already got an Android device. That's where my Android apps are. I HAD a BlackBerry. I saw the direction they were taking and refused to follow.

    Edit:
    Oh and hey by the way if my BofA app were a mess on my iPhone I could always put a shortcut on my home screen which, I was told often by Blackberry faithful and by Blackberry leadership, is all I need because apps, so goes the BlackBerry dogma, are not necessary.

    Sent from my SEXY GORGEOUS AWESOME GOLD 128G iPhone 6
    Last edited by qbnkelt; 01-25-2015 at 05:34 AM.
    01-25-2015 05:16 AM
  6. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I don't think he is asking for source codes of the proprietory apps. All he says is that all developers should be mandated to make compatible apps across platforms.
    I fail to understand, why there is such a hue and cry, for a consumer friendly suggestion.
    Whether Chen is a tool or he has ulterior motives behind this suggestion should be ignored. What he is suggesting is actually beneficial for us.

    P.S. Blackberry has a better mail app than iOS's and BBM is way beyond imessage.

    P.P.S: I am not trying to convert anyone here or trolling, just trying to make people understand that the suggestion is actually good. Had it come out of Cooks mouth, everyone would have worshipped it
    There is a hue and cry because when you get government issuing mandates to private individuals to force them into performing business for a company they would not otherwise choose to do business with, you're entering the realm of State mandated commerce. And THAT is not something that is good for consumers. Or private industry.


    Sent from my SEXY GORGEOUS AWESOME GOLD 128G iPhone 6
    Coachbulldog likes this.
    01-25-2015 05:23 AM
  7. agarwal.apar's Avatar
    Chen is like a kid who wants a toy from his elders!! Cry baby cry.. Booo
    the_tech_eater likes this.
    01-25-2015 06:59 AM
  8. FFR's Avatar
    We could use all these posts to write a thesis paper about BlackBerry and mail it to Chen.
    What I would like to understand is who in their right mind would pay full price for a blackberry device?




    Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk
    01-26-2015 02:31 AM
  9. qbnkelt's Avatar
    What I would like to understand is who in their right mind would pay full price for a blackberry device?




    Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk
    Well hopefully somebody will buy the company to help keep it alive and then use it for more than just parts, services, or patents.


    Sent from my SEXY GORGEOUS AWESOME GOLD 128G iPhone 6
    Coachbulldog likes this.
    01-26-2015 04:08 AM
  10. mmcfly23's Avatar
    I don't think he is asking for source codes of the proprietory apps. All he says is that all developers should be mandated to make compatible apps across platforms.
    I fail to understand, why there is such a hue and cry, for a consumer friendly suggestion.
    Whether Chen is a tool or he has ulterior motives behind this suggestion should be ignored. What he is suggesting is actually beneficial for us.
    Chen isn't funding my development costs, so who is to make such idiotic demands?


    Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk
    Coachbulldog likes this.
    01-26-2015 06:25 AM
  11. mmcfly23's Avatar
    Not a developer btw (just saying).


    Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk
    01-26-2015 06:25 AM
  12. ritesh's Avatar
    Great points . I think mandate is too restrictive a word to offend the developers. And since the words came out of Chen's mouth/fingers/brains, the community is furious.
    If the developers, unitedly decided to make apps for all platforms, no one would mind, I suppose.
    There could also be a situation, where the app designer only designs the architecture of his app and an app producer ports it for all platforms, but this would be too complicated for revenue sharing, etc. and with apps sometimes having a shelf life, too complicated to implement.

    And after re-reading the original article, I feel iMessage for BB and Android is more of an example provided, along with Netflix.

    Just wanted to let everyone know, that I do understand, that the statement was an attempt to save a dying company, but felt, that if it did happen, it would be a consumer friendly move.
    01-27-2015 02:14 AM
  13. Algus's Avatar
    If a mandate like this came into effect it would hit end users very quickly when developers that no longer had the time or resources to develop cross-platform suddenly wouldn't be able to put out any apps at all.

    How would the mandate work? You can't list on one app store unless you list on all of them? Well I guess iOS devs are SOL since the platform is locked down. Android devs could at least offer their apps for side loading. Or do we go after anyone who ever releases any kind of app at all regardless of whether it is listed in an app store?

    The idea is unfeasible, unworkable, and hardly consumer friendly. I'm sure we could all think of a big name app that we'd like to have on one of our devices that is only available on another device. But for every big name app from a big name company that has the resources to push that app to every platform there are dozens of small time apps from small time developers that could never push their software to every platform, even if they wanted to.
    01-27-2015 04:08 AM
  14. qbnkelt's Avatar
    If a mandate like this came into effect it would hit end users very quickly when developers that no longer had the time or resources to develop cross-platform suddenly wouldn't be able to put out any apps at all.

    How would the mandate work? You can't list on one app store unless you list on all of them? Well I guess iOS devs are SOL since the platform is locked down. Android devs could at least offer their apps for side loading. Or do we go after anyone who ever releases any kind of app at all regardless of whether it is listed in an app store?

    The idea is unfeasible, unworkable, and hardly consumer friendly. I'm sure we could all think of a big name app that we'd like to have on one of our devices that is only available on another device. But for every big name app from a big name company that has the resources to push that app to every platform there are dozens of small time apps from small time developers that could never push their software to every platform, even if they wanted to.
    Actually I've got every single app I want on my iPhone and my Note 4. I am missing two on my Lumia, which it's why it's not either my primary or secondary device. But I think it's ridiculous to legislate an app developer into getting it for me.

    One of the most asinine demands ever. Thank God I'm away from Blackberry and everything associated with it. They're an embarrassment.


    Sent from my SEXY GORGEOUS AWESOME GOLD 128G iPhone 6
    01-27-2015 05:24 AM
  15. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Great points . I think mandate is too restrictive a word to offend the developers. And since the words came out of Chen's mouth/fingers/brains, the community is furious.
    If the developers, unitedly decided to make apps for all platforms, no one would mind, I suppose.
    There could also be a situation, where the app designer only designs the architecture of his app and an app producer ports it for all platforms, but this would be too complicated for revenue sharing, etc. and with apps sometimes having a shelf life, too complicated to implement.

    And after re-reading the original article, I feel iMessage for BB and Android is more of an example provided, along with Netflix.

    Just wanted to let everyone know, that I do understand, that the statement was an attempt to save a dying company, but felt, that if it did happen, it would be a consumer friendly move.
    Exactly. If developers *CHOOSE* then no argument. But to try to dig himself out of the hole he's in by forcing compliance is beyond ludicrous.


    Sent from my SEXY GORGEOUS AWESOME GOLD 128G iPhone 6
    Coachbulldog likes this.
    01-27-2015 05:27 AM
  16. FFR's Avatar
    With bb10 selling less than 7 million units since launch and legacy Blackberrys falling below 15 million subscribers, it doesn't look like it's going to matter much for blackberry going forward. I expect blackberry to stop making phones by 2016.


    Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk
    Coachbulldog likes this.
    02-02-2015 03:22 AM
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