Tim Cook opens up about his personal life for the first time

Jan 20, 2014
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I think that since we're all free thinkers, we should accept those who are gay. I also think we should accept those who do not accept people who are gay. It's the right of having the freedom of thought. I think we should just live and let live.
 

the_tech_eater

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Jul 24, 2013
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If you don't get hired because of it? Yes. If you get fired for having a casual conversation about it at work? Yes. If you don't get a promotion because of your beliefs or lack thereof? Yes. Those things are discrimination.
If someone at work tells you they aren't interested when you try to talk about religion? No because that's not discrimination. If you're upset that you can't promote your religion on government property, that's not discrimination assuming all religions or lack thereof are treated the same. If you're upset because your local XXX store says Happy Holidays rather than Merry Christmas? That's not discrimination either and you can choose to not frequent that store if it bothers you.

I completely agree with you. But, your last point about not going to stores that I find objectionable: I've seen way too many news stories about stores being shut down by gay activists because the store didn't agree with them, and due to religious beliefs can not make a wedding cake for a gay couple, etc. So I see a double standard there.
 
Jan 20, 2014
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If you don't get hired because of it? Yes. If you get fired for having a casual conversation about it at work? Yes. If you don't get a promotion because of your beliefs or lack thereof? Yes. Those things are discrimination.
If someone at work tells you they aren't interested when you try to talk about religion? No because that's not discrimination. If you're upset that you can't promote your religion on government property, that's not discrimination assuming all religions or lack thereof are treated the same. If you're upset because your local XXX store says Happy Holidays rather than Merry Christmas? That's not discrimination either and you can choose to not frequent that store if it bothers you.

Now I'm not trying to argue but let's put out a certain religion here. Muslim for example. I have met some of the most amazing people who practice that religion. However, people still generally consider them in a bad light. They face rude stares, inappropriate comments, and a multitude of ugly slurs.

I think that instead of going to bat for a single cause, we should go to bat for anyone who's oppressed. We should support and give strength to anyone who is being cut down.

That includes religion, sexual orientation, mental illness, race, personality, and the list goes on. If people just thought "They deserve the same respect I do, if I don't like them, I'll just let them live in peace like I do.", I think the world could be a great place.
 

HankAZ

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Jul 26, 2012
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I too find it amusing. After all, if someone wanted to marry their sister or cousin would just be expressing themselves. They very possibly were born with a desire to marry a relative, and by not supporting them 100% would make you a bigot.

Yep. What if you’re in a "loving and committed" relationship with two people? Three people? Your dog?
 

HankAZ

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I think that since we're all free thinkers, we should accept those who are gay. I also think we should accept those who do not accept people who are gay. It's the right of having the freedom of thought. I think we should just live and let live.

I could live with that IF is just stayed at "live and let live", but too often, both sides get stupid and militant with it. If you are "that way", just go be "that way" and stop shouting it from the rooftop.

Moving on.
 

HankAZ

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Stores being shut down? Never heard of it. Boycotted, yes. I personally haven't been the Chik-fil-a since I became aware of the religious beliefs and anti-homosexual beliefs of their founder (although I still find their commercials hilarious).
If gay activists are just publicizing the bakery's choices, I have no problem with that. If they are standing on the sidewalk informing people who enter of the bakery owner's beliefs, I have no problem with that. If they are forming a human wall of people to not let anyone in? That's wrong. Likewise, if there's a bakery that does make cakes for gay weddings, and you stand outside the store to protest or organize a boycott of like-minded people, I have no issue with that. So I don't see a double-standard in that.

But they didn’t just "publicize" the bakery's choices. They filed suit to force the bakery to accommodate them. Same with the photographer. Again, just go be whoever you are and stop being militant about it. Again, I can live with "live and let live", but often, that’s not where it end up.

Really moving on now.
 

the_tech_eater

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Jul 24, 2013
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Stores being shut down? Never heard of it. Boycotted, yes. I personally haven't been the Chik-fil-a since I became aware of the religious beliefs and anti-homosexual beliefs of their founder (although I still find their commercials hilarious).
If gay activists are just publicizing the bakery's choices, I have no problem with that. If they are standing on the sidewalk informing people who enter of the bakery owner's beliefs, I have no problem with that. If they are forming a human wall of people to not let anyone in? That's wrong. Likewise, if there's a bakery that does make cakes for gay weddings, and you stand outside the store to protest or organize a boycott of like-minded people, I have no issue with that. So I don't see a double-standard in that.

There have been multiple bakers that have been sued and a judge told them they HAD to make a cake for a gay couple. Because that violated their religious beliefs, they were forced to shut down. There also have been photographers that have experienced the same thing. Here's a case: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014...guilty-violating-civil-rights-lesbian-couple/

And here's a case where the baker was forced to stop making wedding cakes: http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/colorado-baker-shut-shopp-serve-gay-couples-article-1.1815868
 

BreakingKayfabe

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You can bring up your bakery and photography cases as much as you want. I'm not getting into that argument again. I just think it's stupid to turn down money because you don't want to make a cake with a couple of dudes on the top of it because of your religious crusade. That's my opinion and there's no reason to try to get me to think differently about it. The fact of the matter is is that it doesn't further your "gay agenda" point. They weren't trying to recruit those business owners to come join the gay team. They're human beings who just don't want to be treated like sh*t. That's not an agenda.

I've wanted to not sell to people who come to my place of business because they just have to mention that they're "christian" as if I asked. "god this. god that. Believe in god like us. Blah blah blah." Talk about an agenda. But whatever. Their money is green and their credit cards are plastic with a magnetic strip.

And this thread, as I knew it would, is getting off the rails.
 

Scatabrain

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Nov 15, 2010
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I think that since we're all free thinkers, we should accept those who are gay. I also think we should accept those who do not accept people who are gay. It's the right of having the freedom of thought. I think we should just live and let live.

This is not about thought. It's about freedom in a tangible sense. I see no reason to accept intolerance when it leads to discrimination. This thread is about freedom to be who you are and not have to hide it. Some in this thread don't respect that freedom. If they had their way people would continue be discriminated against. I DO NOT have to accept that.
 
Jan 20, 2014
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This is not about thought. It's about freedom in a tangible sense. I see no reason to accept intolerance when it leads to discrimination. This thread is about freedom to be who you are and not have to hide it. Some in this thread don't respect that freedom. If they had their way people would continue be discriminated against. I DO NOT have to accept that.

But isn't the action of indiscrimination started by thoughts? Change the mind, change the outcome. Mind over matter. If we truly want everyone to get along and not be intolerant, we have to change how they think. That's just what I believe.
 

sanibel

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Mar 29, 2012
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I have no problems on the people side of that. As long as all of the people involved are capable of consent and do actually consent of their own free will. I think it's a little strange, but I have no issues with it.
The dog, however, cannot consent so I do have an issue with that.

I agree.
And as a side-note, I think some folks are trying to up the ante by adding elicit-specific-stuff (i.e: dog) to make the argument unarguable. That's silly.
 

sanibel

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Mar 29, 2012
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I think that since we're all free thinkers, we should accept those who are gay. I also think we should accept those who do not accept people who are gay. It's the right of having the freedom of thought. I think we should just live and let live.
Explain how it works: If a person is gay he/she is happy to be accepted AND unaccepted at the same time? Point is: If you don't accept gay's right and you keep your thoughts to yourself, that's acceptable. But if you don't accept gay's right and act on it (discriminate) then it is unacceptable.

But isn't the action of indiscrimination started by thoughts?

Some people think before they act and some act before they think... (The egg and chicken syndrome.)
 
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Scatabrain

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Nov 15, 2010
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But isn't the action of indiscrimination started by thoughts? Change the mind, change the outcome. Mind over matter. If we truly want everyone to get along and not be intolerant, we have to change how they think. That's just what I believe.

That's a worthy but slow process. If we waited for big consensus we would not have begun civil rights reform in the 60s. We need leaders like Tim Cook to pull us forward.
 

the_tech_eater

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Jul 24, 2013
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What gay agenda? Lol.

And if you think being gay is immoral or anything, you're an *****. :)

Talk about intolerance... So because I disagree with you, you cuss me. I'm not allowed to disagree with you? Ok. This is precisely why I have a problem with the gay community. They want everyone to agree with them, but they call anyone that disagrees with them "intolerant" or a "bigot". I'm done in this thread.
 

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