1. HankAZ's Avatar
    Stores being shut down? Never heard of it. Boycotted, yes. I personally haven't been the Chik-fil-a since I became aware of the religious beliefs and anti-homosexual beliefs of their founder (although I still find their commercials hilarious).
    If gay activists are just publicizing the bakery's choices, I have no problem with that. If they are standing on the sidewalk informing people who enter of the bakery owner's beliefs, I have no problem with that. If they are forming a human wall of people to not let anyone in? That's wrong. Likewise, if there's a bakery that does make cakes for gay weddings, and you stand outside the store to protest or organize a boycott of like-minded people, I have no issue with that. So I don't see a double-standard in that.
    But they didn’t just "publicize" the bakery's choices. They filed suit to force the bakery to accommodate them. Same with the photographer. Again, just go be whoever you are and stop being militant about it. Again, I can live with "live and let live", but often, that’s not where it end up.

    Really moving on now.
    11-04-2014 09:42 AM
  2. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    Stores being shut down? Never heard of it. Boycotted, yes. I personally haven't been the Chik-fil-a since I became aware of the religious beliefs and anti-homosexual beliefs of their founder (although I still find their commercials hilarious).
    If gay activists are just publicizing the bakery's choices, I have no problem with that. If they are standing on the sidewalk informing people who enter of the bakery owner's beliefs, I have no problem with that. If they are forming a human wall of people to not let anyone in? That's wrong. Likewise, if there's a bakery that does make cakes for gay weddings, and you stand outside the store to protest or organize a boycott of like-minded people, I have no issue with that. So I don't see a double-standard in that.
    There have been multiple bakers that have been sued and a judge told them they HAD to make a cake for a gay couple. Because that violated their religious beliefs, they were forced to shut down. There also have been photographers that have experienced the same thing. Here's a case: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/...esbian-couple/

    And here's a case where the baker was forced to stop making wedding cakes: http://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.1815868
    11-04-2014 09:42 AM
  3. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    You can bring up your bakery and photography cases as much as you want. I'm not getting into that argument again. I just think it's stupid to turn down money because you don't want to make a cake with a couple of dudes on the top of it because of your religious crusade. That's my opinion and there's no reason to try to get me to think differently about it. The fact of the matter is is that it doesn't further your "gay agenda" point. They weren't trying to recruit those business owners to come join the gay team. They're human beings who just don't want to be treated like sh*t. That's not an agenda.

    I've wanted to not sell to people who come to my place of business because they just have to mention that they're "christian" as if I asked. "god this. god that. Believe in god like us. Blah blah blah." Talk about an agenda. But whatever. Their money is green and their credit cards are plastic with a magnetic strip.

    And this thread, as I knew it would, is getting off the rails.
    palandri, Les74, jmr1015 and 2 others like this.
    11-04-2014 09:55 AM
  4. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    There have been multiple bakers that have been sued and a judge told them they HAD to make a cake for a gay couple. Because that violated their religious beliefs, they were forced to shut down. There also have been photographers that have experienced the same thing. Here's a case: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/...esbian-couple/

    And here's a case where the baker was forced to stop making wedding cakes: http://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.1815868
    Ok. Those were based on state law, not federal, which is why I guess I'd never heard of them. Without actually reading the state statutes, it's hard to say whether they were violated or not (although I guess judge(s) thought so). I would hope the same judges would be consistent and rule against a business that only baked cakes for gay weddings. And if there were actually death-threats against the bakers children, then that is totally beyond comprehension.
    But it is an interesting conundrumwhile I can see people being allowed to practice their religion as they see fit even in their business, I can also see the government's inherent interest in making sure all of its citizens are treated the same without discrimination.
    11-04-2014 10:00 AM
  5. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Yep. What if youre in a "loving and committed" relationship with two people? Three people? Your dog?
    You're showing your bias by equating homosexuality with perversion. This kind of thinking leads to discrimination.
    11-04-2014 10:08 AM
  6. Scatabrain's Avatar
    I think that since we're all free thinkers, we should accept those who are gay. I also think we should accept those who do not accept people who are gay. It's the right of having the freedom of thought. I think we should just live and let live.
    This is not about thought. It's about freedom in a tangible sense. I see no reason to accept intolerance when it leads to discrimination. This thread is about freedom to be who you are and not have to hide it. Some in this thread don't respect that freedom. If they had their way people would continue be discriminated against. I DO NOT have to accept that.
    Les74 likes this.
    11-04-2014 10:13 AM
  7. Septembersrain's Avatar
    This is not about thought. It's about freedom in a tangible sense. I see no reason to accept intolerance when it leads to discrimination. This thread is about freedom to be who you are and not have to hide it. Some in this thread don't respect that freedom. If they had their way people would continue be discriminated against. I DO NOT have to accept that.
    But isn't the action of indiscrimination started by thoughts? Change the mind, change the outcome. Mind over matter. If we truly want everyone to get along and not be intolerant, we have to change how they think. That's just what I believe.
    11-04-2014 10:22 AM
  8. sanibel's Avatar
    I have no problems on the people side of that. As long as all of the people involved are capable of consent and do actually consent of their own free will. I think it's a little strange, but I have no issues with it.
    The dog, however, cannot consent so I do have an issue with that.
    I agree.
    And as a side-note, I think some folks are trying to up the ante by adding elicit-specific-stuff (i.e: dog) to make the argument unarguable. That's silly.
    11-04-2014 10:40 AM
  9. sanibel's Avatar
    I think that since we're all free thinkers, we should accept those who are gay. I also think we should accept those who do not accept people who are gay. It's the right of having the freedom of thought. I think we should just live and let live.
    Explain how it works: If a person is gay he/she is happy to be accepted AND unaccepted at the same time? Point is: If you don't accept gay's right and you keep your thoughts to yourself, that's acceptable. But if you don't accept gay's right and act on it (discriminate) then it is unacceptable.

    But isn't the action of indiscrimination started by thoughts?
    Some people think before they act and some act before they think... (The egg and chicken syndrome.)
    Last edited by sanibel; 11-04-2014 at 11:25 AM.
    11-04-2014 10:51 AM
  10. Scatabrain's Avatar
    But isn't the action of indiscrimination started by thoughts? Change the mind, change the outcome. Mind over matter. If we truly want everyone to get along and not be intolerant, we have to change how they think. That's just what I believe.
    That's a worthy but slow process. If we waited for big consensus we would not have begun civil rights reform in the 60s. We need leaders like Tim Cook to pull us forward.
    11-04-2014 12:43 PM
  11. iHackPro's Avatar
    Right now in this country if you don't agree with the gay agenda, you face discrimination, lawsuits, and even jail time.
    What gay agenda? Lol.

    And if you think being gay is immoral or anything, you're an *****.
    A895 likes this.
    11-04-2014 12:44 PM
  12. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    What gay agenda? Lol.

    And if you think being gay is immoral or anything, you're an *****.
    Talk about intolerance... So because I disagree with you, you cuss me. I'm not allowed to disagree with you? Ok. This is precisely why I have a problem with the gay community. They want everyone to agree with them, but they call anyone that disagrees with them "intolerant" or a "bigot". I'm done in this thread.
    11-04-2014 12:49 PM
  13. kch50428's Avatar
    Talk about intolerance... So because I disagree with you, you cuss me. I'm not allowed to disagree with you? Ok. This is precisely why I have a problem with the gay community. They want everyone to agree with them, but they call anyone that disagrees with them "intolerant" or a "bigot". I'm done in this thread.
    It has been my experience that those who most often demand tolerance from others are least likely to grant tolerance to anyone who does not agree with them... Rather ironic.
    11-04-2014 12:52 PM
  14. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    It has been my experience that those who most often demand tolerance from others are least likely to grant tolerance to anyone who does not agree with them... Rather ironic.
    That perfectly sums the pro LGTB community. They haven't figured out that to get tolerance, you have to be tolerant.
    11-04-2014 12:54 PM
  15. Scatabrain's Avatar
    That perfectly sums the pro LGTB community. They haven't figured out that to get tolerance, you have to be tolerant.
    You are right we who care about others will not tolerate intolerance.

    The name calling above to you is not necessary.
    A895 likes this.
    11-04-2014 12:57 PM
  16. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    You are right we will not tolerate intolerance.
    Hypocrisy at its finest. When you can't accept an opposing view point, that is intolerance.
    11-04-2014 12:59 PM
  17. Scatabrain's Avatar
    Trying to make yourself out as a victim here (aside from the abusive language used against you above) is not right. This is a real problem for many at work.
    Les74, BreakingKayfabe and A895 like this.
    11-04-2014 01:05 PM
  18. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    Hypocrisy at its finest. When you can't accept an opposing view point, that is intolerance.
    I have no problems accepting that other people have different viewpoints. I do have problems when those viewpoints are used to discriminate against others.
    Les74, Maladroit23 and palandri like this.
    11-04-2014 01:13 PM
  19. Les74's Avatar
    I have no problems accepting that other people have different viewpoints. I do have problems when those viewpoints are used to discriminate against others.
    Which is, more often than not, the usual.
    11-04-2014 01:49 PM
  20. jmr1015's Avatar
    That perfectly sums the pro LGTB community. They haven't figured out that to get tolerance, you have to be tolerant.
    Many members of the LGTB community have to hide who they are because of the lack of tolerance. It has nothing to do with how tolerant the LGTB community is, and everything to do with how intolerant the religious and homophobic are.

    Implying that whose who suffer intolerance, should be tolerant of that intolerance, in order to get tolerance in return... That... I...

    Les74, A895 and boeingrules like this.
    11-04-2014 02:09 PM
  21. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    That perfectly sums the pro LGTB community. They haven't figured out that to get tolerance, you have to be tolerant.
    You can easily replace the bolded text with the "religious right." But I won't because I won't generalize the religious right as a whole by the comments of one backer. You can play the victim here all you want. But you shouldn't generalize the whole community as what you described because someONE called you a name. And if you're going to say that it happens all the time wherever you go, then you should choose your words more wisely. I'm still laughing at "gay agenda."
    Maladroit23 likes this.
    11-04-2014 02:15 PM
  22. Maladroit23's Avatar
    But I'm guessing that just the fact that you have an SO has come up in work conversations (I've been working for over 25 years at this point in various types of jobs and it was/is always common knowledge who is single or not even if you know nothing else about the relationship). And by default people will assume the SO is a male since heterosexual relationships are in the majority. So when you are casually talking to co-workers you don't have to be "on-guard" to either 1) make sure you appear single or 2) make sure you use the "correct" (i.e., wrong) pronoun so that people don't suspect you are gay. That type of always having to be "on-guard", even in casual conversation, is very wearying to maintain. That's why Tim Cook publicly stating that he is gay is important. If it helps one additional person not have to be on-guard anymore, that's great.
    I don't have the links handy, but there's a great price by one of The Verge writers about what it personally meant to him, as well as another great article from Kara Swisher of ReCode.
    My thoughts exactly.
    11-04-2014 02:31 PM
  23. Maladroit23's Avatar
    Hypocrisy at its finest. When you can't accept an opposing view point, that is intolerance.
    Homophobes can view homosexuality anyway they like. But when that viewpoint turns into discrimination, we call it intolerance. We don't put up with intolerance.

    Can't believe you thought the old "Hypocrisy at its finest" line was even applicable here.
    A895 likes this.
    11-04-2014 02:37 PM
  24. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Homophobes can view homosexuality anyway they like. But when that viewpoint turns into discrimination, we call it intolerance. We don't put up with intolerance.

    Can't believe you thought the old "Hypocrisy at its finest" line was even applicable here.
    Tim Cook opens up about his personal life for the first time-screen-shot-2014-11-04-2.41.42-pm.png

    Not everyone who is labeled a "homophobe" fit the description found in the dictionary. I have been labeled a "homophobe", not because I had an extreme or irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexuals, but simply for not liking my personal opinion of which I was asked to share. The "specific" people who opted to falsely label me a homophobe were intolerant of my opinion. I was NOT judged based on my kind treatment, my politeness or my non-hateful attitude and demeanor toward those I spoke to.
    SprSynJn likes this.
    11-04-2014 02:50 PM
  25. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    The word homophobe, to me, signifies not only what is in that definition that D provided, but also includes blatant hate and being malicious towards homosexuals. I don't think anyone here is a homophobe. I just think that sometimes when people really believe or don't believe in something it's going to inspire passion on their part to defend their position. People in the spotlight are going to start "coming out" more and more and it's going to test us and how we handle each other in discussion.

    I can understand why someone like Cook would want to announce this. But I also think it would have been fine if he was just out and about in the public where there are cameras and he was just holding hands with his boyfriend without having ever announced anything. The one thing that those two cases would have in common is that it would inspire discussion like the one we are all having here. They're screwed either way and will be victims to scrutiny.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    11-04-2014 03:20 PM
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