1. iMore.com's Avatar


    Last week a bill passed in Arizona that would give businesses the legal right to refuse service to customers based on their sexual orientation. Many companies, including Apple, are now speaking out against the bill and urging Governor Brewer to veto it. Their argument? It's not only legalized discrimination but bad for the Arizona economy.

    Full story from the iMore Blog...
    02-26-2014 11:50 AM
  2. HankAZ's Avatar
    Wow. Because everyone knows that gay rights trump religious freedom. After all, this is 'Merica.

    This bill is not about being anti-gay - it’s about not being forced to participate in something that you are religiously/morally opposed to. Unfortunately, every whack job liberal is busy mis-representing this legislation as "anti-gay". Now the media has it and is running with the "story".
    02-26-2014 04:34 PM
  3. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    Being religiously/morally opposed to homosexuality is anti-gay no matter what your reasons are.

    If this holds up, a business owner who is opposed to homosexuality would have to be stupid to refuse someone's money because of their sexual orientation, anyway. I'm a business owner (retail, customer service) and I'm Pro-green. Give me your money.
    Beyond Fire likes this.
    02-26-2014 05:26 PM
  4. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    And besides that, how is a business owner even going to identify someone who's gay. There are plenty of people who appear stereotypically gay but are not, just as there are plenty of people who appear stereotypical heterosexual but are not.
    BreakingKayfabe and taz323 like this.
    02-26-2014 06:04 PM
  5. HankAZ's Avatar
    It’s good to see that only some people's rights are being protected. The issue driving this legislation is the suit in New Mexico of a gay couple that sued a baker because he refused to do a cake for a gay couple's wedding. At that point it’s pretty clear that the "customer" is homosexual. Same holds true for photographers, etc. The issue many times is that the homosexual couple push the issue just to prove a point. Sorry to see that NM baker go out of business, but he took a stand.

    The old saw that says your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose apparently doesn’t apply any longer. Especially if you’re gay.
    02-26-2014 07:28 PM
  6. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    It’s good to see that only some people's rights are being protected. The issue driving this legislation is the suit in New Mexico of a gay couple that sued a baker because he refused to do a cake for a gay couple's wedding. At that point it’s pretty clear that the "customer" is homosexual. Same holds true for photographers, etc. The issue many times is that the homosexual couple push the issue just to prove a point. Sorry to see that NM baker go out of business, but he took a stand.

    The old saw that says your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose apparently doesn’t apply any longer. Especially if you’re gay.
    That's the point I'm making. What is there to take a stand against? Just make the cake and take their money, and why worry about who is grabbing whose junk? No matter how clear it is that they're homosexual. Or even better. If you feel that strongly about it, cite another reason that you won't make that cake. If he was stupid enough to admit why, that's what he gets. You're going to take a moral stand at the expense of your business? I hope it was worth it for him. What if it was a interracial couple, man and woman? What if his "morals" told him that that was wrong, too? Take a "stand' in another place and don't use your livelihood as your platform.
    Last edited by Heisenberg; 02-26-2014 at 08:16 PM.
    02-26-2014 08:05 PM
  7. SwitchBeach's Avatar
    What if the baker refused to make a cake for an inter-racial couple? Is that okay? Should his "right" to refuse them serve be upheld? Is he allowed to not "be forced to participate in something that you are religiously/morally opposed to."? Just curious where the line is.
    BreakingKayfabe likes this.
    02-26-2014 10:02 PM
  8. HankAZ's Avatar
    That's the point I'm making. What is there to take a stand against? Just make the cake and take their money, and why worry about who is grabbing whose junk? No matter how clear it is that they're homosexual. Or even better. If you feel that strongly about it, cite another reason that you won't make that cake. If he was stupid enough to admit why, that's what he gets. You're going to take a moral stand at the expense of your business? I hope it was worth it for him. What if it was a interracial couple, man and woman? What if his "morals" told him that that was wrong, too? Take a "stand' in another place and don't use your livelihood as your platform.
    Don't use your livelihood as your platform? That equates to having NO standard. Which equates to selling out. Stand for something or fall for anything.

    What about religious rights? What about taking a moral stand? That’s the problem with America - no one takes a stand any more. Just roll over and let anything go. What’s next? Porn discussions on iMore? (oops, too late). Beastiality? Necromancy? NAMBLA?
    02-26-2014 10:53 PM
  9. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    Don't use your livelihood as your platform? That equates to having NO standard. Which equates to selling out. Stand for something or fall for anything.

    What about religious rights? What about taking a moral stand? Thats the problem with America - no one takes a stand any more. Just roll over and let anything go. Whats next? Porn discussions on iMore? (oops, too late). Beastiality? Necromancy? NAMBLA?
    Why do you need to use your bakery to make this religious/moral stand? Do you understand what I'm saying here? I'm not saying there shouldn't be a religious right. I'm saying why would you want to use your business, you know, the thing that makes you money, to prove a point that you're against homosexuality? Great, you just alienated a group of people and lost that money, then, you got a bad reputation out of it. End up closing your business? For what? Congratulations on the "stand" you made. You came out with no bakery. Spare me your "no standard" argument. Someone walks into your bakery and would like you to bake them a cake. Big deal. It's not like David Duke asked him to make him a birthday cake.
    02-27-2014 12:28 AM
  10. HankAZ's Avatar
    Why do you need to use your bakery to make this religious/moral stand? Do you understand what I'm saying here? I'm not saying there shouldn't be a religious right. I'm saying why would you want to use your business, you know, the thing that makes you money, to prove a point that you're against homosexuality? Great, you just alienated a group of people and lost that money, then, you got a bad reputation out of it. End up closing your business? For what? Congratulations on the "stand" you made. You came out with no bakery. Spare me your "no standard" argument. Someone walks into your bakery and would like you to bake them a cake. Big deal. It's not like David Duke asked him to make him a birthday cake.
    If they are truly religious/moral beliefs, you cannot separate them from who you are or what you do. Do you understand what I am saying? It’s not about choosing to do or not do something and then hiding behind morality/religion. It’s about living your life with the conviction of your beliefs. If the views that you hold are integral to who you are, you cannot simply pick them up and lay them down - it’s WHO YOU ARE.

    So you wouldn’t make a birthday cake for David Duke? Why not? In your scenario, it’s all about the money. Wouldn’t his money also help to make you profitable? How is your not wanting to bake a birthday cake for David Duke any different from another baker not wanting to bake a cake for a gay couple? Either a stand is a stand or it isn't. And if it’s about the money and turning a profit, who cares where the money comes from?

    Now take it a step further. Now, instead of a baker, who, arguably could bake a cake and be done with it, you’re a wedding photographer. Now you have to be intimately involved in a wedding ceremony that you are opposed to on moral or religious grounds. But instead of baking a cake in your bakery and having it picked up and delivered to a gay wedding, you have to actually attend a gay wedding (remember the moral/religious opposition) and be an actual part of it. What if David Duke (your example) asked you to do a personal portrait or family photos?

    Clearly we’re not ever going to agree on this, so there’s not much point to continuing. And personally, I have no skin in the game. Do what you want. If you’re gay, be gay. If you’re morally/religiously opposed to homosexuality, be opposed/offended/whatever. My point is simply this: there is NO true equal rights. In order to extend "rights" to one individual/group/segment of society, you run the risk of limiting the rights of another person/group/segment. And there is no way to get around it.

    Just like in War Games, with global thermal nuclear war, there is no winner. And for many, this subject is approaching that level.

    Have a good evening.
    Last edited by HankAZ; 02-27-2014 at 01:03 AM.
    02-27-2014 12:53 AM
  11. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    If they are truly religious/moral beliefs, you cannot separate them from who you are or what you do. Do you understand what I am saying?
    Yeah, I do. If someone is a hardcore Christian, they can't separate that from baking a cake. Understood.
    02-27-2014 03:28 AM

Similar Threads

  1. straight to voice mail
    By iMore Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-26-2014, 04:00 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-26-2014, 11:10 AM
  3. How to manually back up Contacts on your Mac
    By iMore.com in forum iMore.com News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-26-2014, 11:10 AM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-26-2014, 10:40 AM
  5. Apple formally appeals ebook antitrust ruling - does it stand a chance?
    By iMore.com in forum iMore.com News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-26-2014, 10:20 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD