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  1. iMore.com's Avatar
    The growing unrest between Apple's executive team and the rank and file continues to grab headlines and employees have written a second letter to CEO Tim Cook and VP of people, Deirdre O'Brien asking for more flexibility in terms of working from home.

    Full story from the iMore Blog...
    07-19-2021 02:30 PM
  2. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    lol I knew these people would start citing "rising covid cases." What does anyone care about that if you're vaccinated and why is it anyone's problem if you choose not to be vaccinated?
    07-19-2021 02:45 PM
  3. Quis89's Avatar
    lol I knew these people would start citing "rising covid cases." What does anyone care about that if you're vaccinated and why is it anyone's problem if you choose not to be vaccinated?
    This is my belief even aside from this story. Why do I care if unvaccinated people are catching covid. They made their decision. Those who chose to get vaccinated made theirs. If the vaccinated folks are fine, why worry about those who decided to roll the dice? If I chose to get vaccinated, shouldn't I be able to get back to "normal" again?

    So then as it relates to this story...normal would be working in the office. Rising cases shouldn't determine this.
    BreakingKayfabe likes this.
    07-19-2021 02:55 PM
  4. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    lol I knew these people would start citing "rising covid cases." What does anyone care about that if you're vaccinated and why is it anyone's problem if you choose not to be vaccinated?
    Yep...I saw it coming, too. They don't have a legitimate excuse for not returning to the office and they know it.
    07-19-2021 03:08 PM
  5. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    ...

    So then as it relates to this story...normal would be working in the office. Rising cases shouldn't determine this.
    'nuf said.
    07-19-2021 03:09 PM
  6. Quis89's Avatar
    I do believe that those employees wield some power though. Apple is a traditional company. A lot of traditional companies like having their staff in the office. That's fine. But as companies look for ways to attract and retain talent, they may need to let go of some of those traditional methodologies. My wife's company is changing their entire landscape. You can now choose if you want to work fully remote or work a hybrid schedule that allows some days in the office and some remote.

    If I'm a company trying to attract talent, I may want to consider these types of work environments. The same way I can't blame a company for how they choose to operate, I can't blame an employee for working for a company that better aligns with their work style.

    These employees have every right to call Apple out...but at the end of the day, Apple makes the decisions for their company. If they don't like it, they should seek employment elsewhere. If enough people do this, I'm sure Apple will have no choice but to respond.
    TgeekB likes this.
    07-19-2021 03:13 PM
  7. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    I do believe that those employees wield some power though. Apple is a traditional company. A lot of traditional companies like having their staff in the office. That's fine. But as companies look for ways to attract and retain talent, they may need to let go of some of those traditional methodologies. My wife's company is changing their entire landscape. You can now choose if you want to work fully remote or work a hybrid schedule that allows some days in the office and some remote.

    If I'm a company trying to attract talent, I may want to consider these types of work environments. The same way I can't blame a company for how they choose to operate, I can't blame an employee for working for a company that better aligns with their work style.

    These employees have every right to call Apple out...but at the end of the day, Apple makes the decisions for their company. If they don't like it, they should seek employment elsewhere. If enough people do this, I'm sure Apple will have no choice but to respond.
    To me, Apple is a completely different animal. They are making so much hardware and I don’t know how that could work without collaboration. Whenever I see this issue come up with these employees I ask myself if they could have developed the iPhone in this fashion. I’m sure the answer is no because none of this would have been a conversation with the prior CEO.
    Annie_M likes this.
    07-19-2021 03:44 PM
  8. Quis89's Avatar
    To me, Apple is a completely different animal. They are making so much hardware and I don’t know how that could work without collaboration. Whenever I see this issue come up with these employees I ask myself if they could have developed the iPhone in this fashion. I’m sure the answer is no because none of this would have been a conversation with the prior CEO.
    I'm sure there are absolutely some departments that could easily work from home without issue. Everyone at Apple isn't developing hardware. It's about understanding the job you signed up for and the requirements of it. If your role requires you to be on site, then you're on site. If you're a programmer, do you really need to be on site in a world where Zoom and instant messaging exist? In fact, I know many programmers who will tell you they're far more productive at home. Less distractions.
    TgeekB and grover5 like this.
    07-19-2021 03:46 PM
  9. TgeekB's Avatar
    To me, Apple is a completely different animal. They are making so much hardware and I don’t know how that could work without collaboration. Whenever I see this issue come up with these employees I ask myself if they could have developed the iPhone in this fashion. I’m sure the answer is no because none of this would have been a conversation with the prior CEO.
    True statement but the company is much bigger now. Does every single employee have to be there for it to work today? I’m pretty confident the answer is no.
    07-19-2021 03:49 PM
  10. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    True statement but the company is much bigger now. Does every single employee have to be there for it to work today? I’m pretty confident the answer is no.
    That’s the problem. You can’t favor some and the others not.
    07-19-2021 03:52 PM
  11. TgeekB's Avatar
    That’s the problem. You can’t favor some and the others not.
    Why not? It’s part of the job. As someone else mentioned, in most companies, IT isn’t on site. They’re a phone call or text away and can do almost anything they need remotely. There are plenty of other positions that are the same.
    Quis89 and grover5 like this.
    07-19-2021 03:57 PM
  12. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    Why not? It’s part of the job. As someone else mentioned, in most companies, IT isn’t on site. They’re a phone call or text away and can do almost anything they need remotely. There are plenty of other positions that are the same.
    If Apple decides to go that way, let them and see where that takes them. People will b*tch and complain more. Give a mouse a piece of cheese and he’ll ask for a glass of milk.
    07-19-2021 04:10 PM
  13. TgeekB's Avatar
    If Apple decides to go that way, let them and see where that takes them. People will b*tch and complain more. Give a mouse a piece of cheese and he’ll ask for a glass of milk.
    First, employees are not mice.

    Second, as I stated, many companies already do it and they don’t seem to be having problems.

    I don’t have a firm stand one way or the other. It does seem to be something that works and makes employees happy. Apple is supposed to be at the front end of innovation, let’s see if that’s true or not.
    Quis89 and grover5 like this.
    07-19-2021 04:15 PM
  14. Quis89's Avatar
    That’s the problem. You can’t favor some and the others not.
    You absolutely can. Business can and do it all the time. Especially during this pandemic. If you're a retail worker, you should understand your role obviously requires you in the store. If you're working in the corporate office, you probably have more flexibility.

    It's no different than pre-pandemic times. Not all roles have the same requirements. Some departments require a specific uniform. Others are more relaxed because they aren't customer facing.
    07-20-2021 11:29 AM
  15. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    To me, Apple is a completely different animal.
    The points you guys have made are good ones but you've skimped over this little detail when I initially posted my thoughts. None of what you guys are saying applies to my perception of Apple's work environment.

    Once again, given today's circumstances, could the iPhone have been developed? The answer is absolutely not.
    07-20-2021 12:04 PM
  16. Lee_Bo's Avatar
    That’s the problem. You can’t favor some and the others not.
    But if your job description says "field service tech", then you should know you're not able to work remotely, while some who is a "help desk support analyst" can work remotely.

    It's not favoritism is your job duties don't allow it.

    IMHO, let Apple make all employees return to an office. You'll see an influx of resignations.
    07-20-2021 03:18 PM
  17. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    IMHO, let Apple make all employees return to an office. You'll see an influx of resignations.
    Well, yeah. What other choice would they have since they moved away from Silicon Valley during this ordeal?
    Annie_M likes this.
    07-20-2021 03:26 PM
  18. grover5's Avatar
    Yep...I saw it coming, too. They don't have a legitimate excuse for not returning to the office and they know it.
    Excuse? Why return? It’s unnecessary. Clearly that has been proven over the last 18 months. What excuse does Apple have for wasting employee time with commutes?
    07-20-2021 03:38 PM
  19. grover5's Avatar
    To me, Apple is a completely different animal. They are making so much hardware and I don’t know how that could work without collaboration. Whenever I see this issue come up with these employees I ask myself if they could have developed the iPhone in this fashion. I’m sure the answer is no because none of this would have been a conversation with the prior CEO.
    All this post illustrates is that you don’t know. You’ve stated as much yourself repeatedly in the post. Why do you feel so strongly about something you don’t understand?
    07-20-2021 03:40 PM
  20. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Excuse? Why return? It’s unnecessary. Clearly that has been proven over the last 18 months. What excuse does Apple have for wasting employee time with commutes?
    Why not return? Just because they don't want to or because they feel there's no need to return is irrelevant. They are employees and not employers. If some of the employees resign, they will be replaced with people who will comply with Apple.

    Just so we're clear, I'm arguing in favor of Apple because they pay the employees' salary and should be able to dictate that its employees work in the office if they want.

    As an employer, I'm not going to allow you to seek employment with my company and then dictate to me where and how you'll do your job.
    Last edited by Just_Me_D; 07-20-2021 at 05:47 PM.
    BreakingKayfabe likes this.
    07-20-2021 04:09 PM
  21. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    All this post illustrates is that you don’t know. You’ve stated as much yourself repeatedly in the post. Why do you feel so strongly about something you don’t understand?
    Because I can feel as strongly as I please about anything I’d like.
    07-20-2021 04:30 PM
  22. grover5's Avatar
    Why not return? Just because they don't want to or because they feel there's no need to return is irrelevant. They are employees and not employers. If some of the employees resign, they will be replaced with people who will comply with Apple.

    Just so we're clear, I'm arguing in favor of Apple because they pay the employees' salary and should be able to dictate that its employees work in the office if they want.

    As an employer, I'm not going to allow you to seek employment with my company and then dictate to me where and how you'll do your job.
    Yeah. That’s not really how it works. But good luck with that.
    07-20-2021 06:20 PM
  23. grover5's Avatar
    Because I can feel as strongly as I please about anything I’d like.
    You certainly can.
    07-20-2021 06:21 PM
  24. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    Yeah. That’s not really how it works. But good luck with that.
    What is ‘it?’
    07-20-2021 06:22 PM
  25. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Yeah. That’s not really how it works. But good luck with that.
    Really? Okay. Let's say you put it out there that you're looking for a qualified applicant to do whatever it is you're hiring the person do. During the interview, you find what you think is the right person and hire him or her. You tell the person you expect him or her to be prompt and the working hours are 9 am to 5 pm. They agree to your terms. After a week or so, that person tells you they will only work from 1 pm to 5 pm, but expects the same salary as though he or she worked from 9 to 5. Would you comply?
    07-20-2021 06:29 PM
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