1. iEd's Avatar
    Seems like the OP hates Google services and is mad because Apple services don't work on Android. Each platform has the way they do things pick one and keep it moving. If Google shut down their services on iOS I'm still good but Google needs iOS users using their services.
    03-18-2014 11:55 AM
  2. EauRouge's Avatar
    Interesting read, OP. And I tend to agree with you.

    As a result, I'm much more invested in the google ecosystem of web based services, like calendar etc. iCloud is only used for backups of my Apple devices, and even then... not that much. I back up to a dedicated external HD for my Mac, and for any iphones that I've used I've just backed up with itunes.

    Maybe I'm an uninformed consumer, but I don't see how iCloud can make my life any better or easier
    impaler and Amamba like this.
    03-18-2014 12:35 PM
  3. impaler's Avatar
    Try flying to Mexico, walking into a manufacturing plant that doesn't provide wifi access to unapproved devices, and looking up your flight information on iCloud from company issued Android phone. Try sharing a document on iCloud with people across several different companies all using different systems. Try migrating years of data to another system if you decide to switch platforms. A service that locks you into a particular hardware isn't a service you want to stick with; just like a ISP provided email address, you'll find out sooner or later that using it creates more problems than it's worth.
    I think you really continue to misunderstand Apple's view of the world. First off, if you're using iCloud for business purposes, you're actually misusing the service as intended. Under iCloud's terms and condictions, it specifically states: "You further acknowledge and agree that the Service is designed and intended for personal use on an individual basis ". I am always stunned when I hear people use iCloud email for a business. Plus it seems just as unprofessional as Gmail. It's intended for single use, and not to be integrated with other stuff. iCloud does not need to do that to accomplish their purpose. Companies don't give away free stuff without a hitch - and the hook here is their attempt to achieve ecosystem lock-in. Google tries that too - but they do it by the services being so awesome to so many, regardless of platform. It's a completely different approach, and is unreasonable to expect Apple to change their view to the Google vision. By providing services more universally, they do not achieve their unstated goal - to achieve ecosystem lock-in. The battles of the 2010s will continue to be battles of ecosystems. My advice is always to pick one and just stick with it.
    Not Quite Right likes this.
    03-18-2014 01:13 PM
  4. impaler's Avatar
    Interesting read, OP. And I tend to agree with you.

    As a result, I'm much more invested in the google ecosystem of web based services, like calendar etc. iCloud is only used for backups of my Apple devices, and even then... not that much. I back up to a dedicated external HD for my Mac, and for any iphones that I've used I've just backed up with itunes.

    Maybe I'm an uninformed consumer, but I don't see how iCloud can make my life any better or easier
    I think Google fits in really well with a lot of people! They are fantastic services, reliable, and the draw to Google services is really strong for many. The OP, however, seems to believe iCloud should change to adopt Google's view, which is where I take issue.
    Not Quite Right and taz323 like this.
    03-18-2014 01:15 PM
  5. Amamba's Avatar
    It's nearly impossible to separate personal and business use when you have a demanding job and a demanding personal life, one has to balance tasks and meetings and work on different things on the fly when there's time. If I am stuck at school at 7 pm waiting for my kids' rehearsal to finish, and I have a presentation the next morning, I will work on it there. And I don't want to carry a work laptop with me at all times. If I need to pay the bills and I have 20 minutes between meetings but won't get home until 9 pm ( which happens a lot when your kids are in middle school and both you and your wife work full time) I will do it then. To be successful and avoid stress and get things done one must maximize available time - that's where all these wonderful electronics come in handy. I wouldn't spend nearly $500 on an iPad to play games.

    I am not mad at anything, or hate any service. These words are way too strong. I mistrust Google and I would like to use a service from some other provider. I want a service which I can stick with for years, if not for life - migrating all your stuff between providers is a PITA, waste of time and effort. Which means the service has to be reliable, should have the right features, and be accessible from any device I own or use.

    Now, there are service providers, hardware providers, and providers that try to be both, let's say system providers. Here I consider OS to be related to hardware. Google started as a service provider and is now a strong presence in the hardware. Microsoft is more or less the same. Because they keep their services hardware independent, they are a safe bet - as long as I have internet connection and some device, I know I can access my data on Google or MS services from wherever I am.

    Apple designed iCloud in such a way that it doesn't make sense to use their service unless you agree to a fairly restrictive set of limitations. So in my mind, Apple had resigned to being primarily a hardware provider. This doesn't mean I am "mad" at them. I do think that they are taking a bet here, as Android devices market is nibbling on their heels, and the competition is only going to get tougher, and along the way they are willingly surrounding the services market to Google. They definitely have $$$ and engineering resources to compete.

    But hey, it's their choice. As long as I can seamlessly use Apple hardware with other companies services, and as long as they keep building reliable equipment with workable OS, they will have a chance to get my money when it's time to upgrade.
    03-18-2014 02:48 PM
  6. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    Apple designed iCloud in such a way that it doesn't make sense to use their service unless you agree to a fairly restrictive set of limitations. So in my mind, Apple had resigned to being primarily a hardware provider. This doesn't mean I am "mad" at them. I do think that they are taking a bet here, as Android devices market is nibbling on their heels, and the competition is only going to get tougher, and along the way they are willingly surrounding the services market to Google. They definitely have $$$ and engineering resources to compete.

    But hey, it's their choice. As long as I can seamlessly use Apple hardware with other companies services, and as long as they keep building reliable equipment with workable OS, they will have a chance to get my money when it's time to upgrade.
    I understand you completely. I'm just saying that based on this, you are not the customer that Apple is looking for. It's a stretch to say that Apple "doesn't get it." They have their target consumer and unfortunately it doesn't please everyone.
    impaler and Amamba like this.
    03-18-2014 03:07 PM
  7. impaler's Avatar
    I mistrust Google and I would like to use a service from some other provider. I want a service which I can stick with for years, if not for life - migrating all your stuff between providers is a PITA, waste of time and effort. Which means the service has to be reliable, should have the right features, and be accessible from any device I own or use.
    iCloud's not for you.
    03-18-2014 03:13 PM
  8. iEd's Avatar
    Find the right tool for the job. That's all it is.

    A butter knife doesn't suck because it doesn't function properly as a screwdriver.
    But people do it all the time.
    03-18-2014 03:27 PM
  9. Amamba's Avatar
    I understand you completely. I'm just saying that based on this, you are not the customer that Apple is looking for. It's a stretch to say that Apple "doesn't get it." They have their target consumer and unfortunately it doesn't please everyone.
    Right, I agree. But, as the consumers become more and more tech savvy, they will be looking for more universal, integrated solutions, so their target customer base may be shrinking. What would the today's 10 year olds be looking for 10 years from now ?
    03-18-2014 05:34 PM
  10. Not Quite Right's Avatar
    Find the right tool for the job. That's all it is.

    A butter knife doesn't suck because it doesn't function properly as a screwdriver.
    But people do it all the time.
    Exactly! Stop trying to make iCloud into something it's not, and probably never will be. You're an advanced user with advanced needs then it's time to search for an advanced solution like this maybe? Microsoft Office for iPad will be unveiled this month | The Verge
    03-18-2014 06:10 PM
  11. Amamba's Avatar
    Actually an Outlook.com or Google drive account already covers 90% of my document sharing / editing needs. No need for Office for iOS.

    Anyway, I am content at moment with merely using iPad to access others' services, just think Apple is missing out on an opportunity here.

    Apple's greatest luck is the fact that Android market is so fragmented and there's no clear industry leader with an emphasis on product quality and user experience. Samsung is trying to become one but I don't think its there yet. Otherwise they have a more powerful system, with real multitasking and several powerful office suits. But for every one thing that works and is cutting edge and with a great idea behind it, there's another that hangs, wastes memory and eats battery.
    Kashan Osama likes this.
    03-18-2014 06:44 PM
  12. impaler's Avatar
    as the consumers become more and more tech savvy, they will be looking for more universal, integrated solutions
    Not necessarily. Most NORMAL (e.g. not us, that discuss on these forums) people appreciate integration, and don't think about it. It's an appliance.
    Kashan Osama likes this.
    03-19-2014 11:50 AM
  13. Amamba's Avatar
    We'll precisely, it's an appliance and it's supposed to be universally useful. I don't see how one could avoid cross platform collaboration in the future, it's only going to get more important. Workplace or personal. Like wife creating a shopping list on her iPad and me opening it on my Android phone on my way from work; the device / OS should be transparent to the task; it's that transparency / universal access that I was talking about. You wouldn't buy a stapler unless it uses standard staples ?
    Kashan Osama likes this.
    03-19-2014 12:01 PM
  14. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    We'll precisely, it's an appliance and it's supposed to be universally useful. I don't see how one could avoid cross platform collaboration in the future, it's only going to get more important. Workplace or personal. Like wife creating a shopping list on her iPad and me opening it on my Android phone on my way from work; the device / OS should be transparent to the task; it's that transparency / universal access that I was talking about. You wouldn't buy a stapler unless it uses standard staples ?
    There are plenty of apps and services that work cross platform for things like grocery lists.
    03-19-2014 12:02 PM
  15. impaler's Avatar
    We'll precisely, it's an appliance and it's supposed to be universally useful. I don't see how one could avoid cross platform collaboration in the future, it's only going to get more important. Workplace or personal. Like wife creating a shopping list on her iPad and me opening it on my Android phone on my way from work; the device / OS should be transparent to the task; it's that transparency / universal access that I was talking about. You wouldn't buy a stapler unless it uses standard staples ?
    I maintain my view that you don't get it. You want Apple to support your needs, and that's not what they do.
    03-19-2014 12:20 PM
  16. Amamba's Avatar
    There are plenty of apps and services that work cross platform for things like grocery lists.
    My original point, precisely. Google drive does. Evernote does. Onedrive does. iCloud doesn't.
    03-20-2014 02:45 PM
  17. Amamba's Avatar
    I maintain my view that you don't get it. You want Apple to support your needs, and that's not what they do.
    No, honestly I don't care as long as I can use their hardware with my chosen service. I just think they're missing out and surrendering too much of market to Google by having services that doesn't really play well with others. Look at FaceTime, for example, it only works on iOS. A few years ago, this would provide an incentive for someone to buy an Apple product so that they could video chat for free with other Apple owners; now, all it does is providing an incentive for an iPad owner to install Google Hangouts so that they could video chat with anybody and have free phone calls on top. So what does Apple gain by that ?
    Last edited by Amamba; 03-20-2014 at 03:12 PM.
    Kashan Osama likes this.
    03-20-2014 03:01 PM
  18. impaler's Avatar
    My original point, precisely. Google drive does. Evernote does. Onedrive does. iCloud doesn't.
    Because it doesn't need to, to meet their needs (platform lock in). That would be contrary to why iCloud exists.
    03-20-2014 04:05 PM
  19. impaler's Avatar
    No, honestly I don't care as long as I can use their hardware with my chosen service. I just think they're missing out and surrendering too much of market to Google by having services that doesn't really play well with others. Look at FaceTime, for example, it only works on iOS. A few years ago, this would provide an incentive for someone to buy an Apple product so that they could video chat for free with other Apple owners; now, all it does is providing an incentive for an iPad owner to install Google Hangouts so that they could video chat with anybody and have free phone calls on top. So what does Apple gain by that ?
    Apple devices sell like hotcakes. They're not missing anything. Again, I keep saying this, but I'll once again repeat it. For Apple it's NOT about the services...it's about the hardware. If they sell their own hardware, that's their goal. Opening iCloud cross-platform hurts that goal; that's why they don't do it.

    FaceTime also works on Macs.
    03-20-2014 04:07 PM
  20. Amamba's Avatar
    Apple devices sell like hotcakes. They're not missing anything. Again, I keep saying this, but I'll once again repeat it. For Apple it's NOT about the services...it's about the hardware. If they sell their own hardware, that's their goal. Opening iCloud cross-platform hurts that goal; that's why they don't do it.

    FaceTime also works on Macs.
    "According to Gartner, Samsung more than quadrupled its total tablet sales over the last year, going from just 8.6 million sold to end users in 2012 to 37.4 million sold in 2013. This has helped Android’s share of the tablet market rise from 45.8% in 2012 to 61.9% in 2013 while Apple’s share has fallen from 52.8% all the way down to 36%."

    From here

    iOS Android tablet market share: Samsung puts Android over the top | BGR
    03-20-2014 09:04 PM
  21. iEd's Avatar
    How many tabs run Android?
    How many tabs run iOS?

    The second table shows Apple as #1 in tablet sales by vendor.

    The first table shows Android as #1 by operating system based on 5 different vendors vs Apple as one vendor.
    impaler likes this.
    03-20-2014 09:17 PM
  22. impaler's Avatar
    "According to Gartner, Samsung more than quadrupled its total tablet sales over the last year, going from just 8.6 million sold to end users in 2012 to 37.4 million sold in 2013. This has helped Android’s share of the tablet market rise from 45.8% in 2012 to 61.9% in 2013 while Apple’s share has fallen from 52.8% all the way down to 36%."
    Again, you don't get it. Apple's not about selling the most of anything. Those that don't understand Apple's view, or really listen to them, think it's about market share. I can also show you stats that show market share doesn't mean much to Apple - Tim Cook's said it many times. Revenue blows away everything else out there right now. Part of what drives the revenue is iCloud - as a binding mechanism to keep folks locked into the platform. Again, you may say you prefer a more open iCloud, but why would Apple change when the revenue is huge?
    03-20-2014 09:40 PM
  23. Amamba's Avatar
    Again, you don't get it. Apple's not about selling the most of anything. Those that don't understand Apple's view, or really listen to them, think it's about market share. I can also show you stats that show market share doesn't mean much to Apple - Tim Cook's said it many times. Revenue blows away everything else out there right now. Part of what drives the revenue is iCloud - as a binding mechanism to keep folks locked into the platform. Again, you may say you prefer a more open iCloud, but why would Apple change when the revenue is huge?
    "Perhaps more importantly, ABI's research found that tablets running Android are finally approaching Apple's offerings in terms of revenue generated. The overall tablet market for the second quarter of 2013 reached $12.7 billion in value. Of that, the iPad represented 50 percent of worldwide end-user revenues, the first time that has happened, according to ABI."

    Android overtakes Apple's iPad in tablet marketshare, approaches in revenue earned
    03-21-2014 12:55 AM
  24. iEd's Avatar
    The key fact is Android Tabs as a collective. There is no one Android offering doing iPad business. Apple isn't losing money. Apple is going to keep their model tight instead of having a open OS that's all over the place being run on junk product. A friend of mine bought a Android Tab at a Pharmacy. I said to him what the hell is this? A lot folks are buy these junk tabs. When Apple breaks even on the iPad like Amazon does on the Kindle Fire then there is a problem.
    impaler likes this.
    03-21-2014 01:12 AM
  25. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    Android "overtaking" Apple's iPad? Android is an operating system. It's exactly what iEd said. Apple produces one tablet that runs their OS. Android is on almost anything that calls itself a tablet.
    03-21-2014 01:35 AM
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