Apple May Be Pricing Me Out Of Their Product Lines

[Ken Magel]

These are signs of a maturing market. Smart phones have gotten to the point where unless a company does something radically different such as Face id OR A foldable phone from Samsung, the previous phone is good enough to keep using for another two or even three more years. Apple deserves some credit with IOS 12 for making older hardware work better.

 

[iN8ter]

Stop buying their products. They are really only better than the competition if you prefer them over the competition. Preference cannot be argued with...

But take your money somewhere else, where you will get better value for the dollars asked.

No use complaining about pricing, IMHO.

 

[iN8ter]

Not sign of a maturing market. Sign of a smart corporation. Why not push up your profit margins if your users are willing to pay the increased prices? Not doing that is leaving money on the table.

Apple doesn't exist to give you a good deal.

They exist to get as much money out of you as possible, and increase their profits as much as possible.

Anything else they state is just marketing and pandering for customers.

These are signs of a maturing market. Smart phones have gotten to the point where unless a company does something radically different such as Face id OR A foldable phone from Samsung, the previous phone is good enough to keep using for another two or even three more years. Apple deserves some credit with IOS 12 for making older hardware work better.

Didn't they do the same thing with iOS 9, because of how awful iOS 8 was on older hardware?

Not sure how this is really any different, other than Apple making a big deal out of it because they really had nothing else to show for iOS at the developer conference. It's was a more pronounced feature-thin release than before, and they couldn't just show up and say "we're releasing iOS 12, but we don't have much to say about it at this time."

I mean... every platform has releases focused on performance. I think Google has had a couple already, as well (the one when Android One became a thing, for example, shoots to the top of my mind... I'm losing track of all these version numbers). Microsoft has also done the same (enabling Windows Phone to run well on Lumia 520 devices, for example).

Making sure your code is tight shouldn't really prohibit you from delivering a decent feature update. That's basic testing and optimization that should be part of the development process, anyways. I'm wondering what their process is like, if everything has to be put on hold just to make sure they don't destroy device performance with their updates.

The feature updates on iOS and macOS have been getting thinner and thinner year over year - particularly macOS. Every time there is a super thin feature release, they state that it's because "performance is the priority."

As opposed to... when it isn't?

That's marketing speak, and it's amazing how readily some people gobble it up.

Also, am I the only one that sees the irony in Apple naming their macOS release Mojave, when Microsoft used that name for an experiment they ran re: Windows Vista perception (complete with Commercials, etc.)?

 

[Not Quite Right]

One plus made incremental changes from day one and nothing major

I would hardly call a working In-display Fingerprint Sensor, teardrop notch, 8GB Ram, 16 & 20 MP Sony cameras front & back, 3700 mAh battery with fast charging, USB C, 6.41 inch AMOLED  display with 2.5D Corning Gorilla Glass 6, Snapdragon 845 octacore CPU, a Adreno 630 GPU, and Android Pie for $579 nothing major ... I'd call it some stiff *** competition for the iPhone XS Max at literally a THIRD of the price ... :straight-face:

 

[Garz]

Food for thought: Rene Ritchie just posted this on Twitter:

“MacBook Air prices at launch:

1st Gen (2008): $1799
2nd Gen (2011): $1299*
3rd Gen (2018): $1199

* Reduced to $999 in 2014

(Just in case you read “most expensive Air ever!!!…” at any point today.)

Real questions is if/when this one will drop and by how much.”

Yes but the cost of computers in general has dropped in the past 10-20 years so Rene’s point isn’t very good at all.

 

[anon(8115241)]

I would hardly call a working In-display Fingerprint Sensor, teardrop notch, 8GB Ram, 16 & 20 MP Sony cameras front & back, 3700 mAh battery with fast charging, USB C, 6.41 inch AMOLED  display with 2.5D Corning Gorilla Glass 6, Snapdragon 845 octacore CPU, a Adreno 630 GPU, and Android Pie for $579 nothing major ... I'd call it some stiff *** competition for the iPhone XS Max at literally a THIRD of the price ... :straight-face:

Only thing there that is good is the fingerprint. Those specs are pretty much standard in 2018. Battery life capacity isn’t nothing and depends on who uses the phone and the way it is optimized

 

[Not Quite Right]

Only thing there that is good is the fingerprint. Those specs are pretty much standard in 2018. Battery life capacity isn’t nothing and depends on who uses the phone and the way it is optimized

Uhhh maybe standard amongst high end FLAGSHIP phones costing 2-3 times as much! Quite frankly the One Plus 6T is living proof that a high end smartphone can be had for well under $1000. More proof is that T-Mobile can't sell these fast enough, they are backordered 3-4 weeks already and wait times keep growing. Apple & Samsung both will have to dig pretty deep into their magic bags to continue hoodwinking consumers into paying double if not more for essentially the same thing ...
Oh wait did I mention that they also include a fast charger, 3.5 type C dongle, and a case in that price ...

 

[anon(8115241)]

Uhhh maybe standard amongst high end FLAGSHIP phones costing 2-3 times as much! Quite frankly the One Plus 6T is living proof that a high end smartphone can be had for well under $1000. More proof is that T-Mobile can't sell these fast enough, they are backordered 3-4 weeks already and wait times keep growing. Apple & Samsung both will have to dig pretty deep into their magic bags to continue hoodwinking consumers into paying double if not more for essentially the same thing ...
Oh wait did I mention that they also include a fast charger, 3.5 type C dongle, and a case in that price ...

Doesn’t matter to me or anyone who is in the ecosystem of iOS. People don’t understand that complaining about apple products don’t solve the issue. I have notice that people who complain about apple are those who want an iPhone. An iPhone is good for 5-8 years which I can’t say the same for other devices. I’m a htc fan but now I have an iPhone for a reason

 

[anon(50597)]

Uhhh maybe standard amongst high end FLAGSHIP phones costing 2-3 times as much! Quite frankly the One Plus 6T is living proof that a high end smartphone can be had for well under $1000. More proof is that T-Mobile can't sell these fast enough, they are backordered 3-4 weeks already and wait times keep growing. Apple & Samsung both will have to dig pretty deep into their magic bags to continue hoodwinking consumers into paying double if not more for essentially the same thing ...
Oh wait did I mention that they also include a fast charger, 3.5 type C dongle, and a case in that price ...

Looks like an excellent phone.
I was reading some comparison reviews of the XR and the 6t and it seems most picked the XR due to better camera (slightly), better speed and better battery life. That doesn't mean the 6t is bad and I'm glad there's competition out there. We need companies to produce high quality devices that don't cost over $1000.
I choose iPhone because I like the OS better and prefer their security but for those who like Android, the oneplus is a great choice.

 

[BreakingKayfabe]

Also, am I the only one that sees the irony in Apple naming their macOS release Mojave, when Microsoft used that name for an experiment they ran re: Windows Vista perception (complete with Commercials, etc.)?

No, I'd say you're the only person that actually cares about something like that.

 

[iN8ter]

I'm not, but I didn't say it was a big deal. Question was largely rhetorical.

BTW, if you disagree, you don't start your response with "No." It turns your reply into a contradiction ;-)

But, I'm probably the only person that cares about that... ...

 

[iN8ter]

Doesn’t matter to me or anyone who is in the ecosystem of iOS. People don’t understand that complaining about apple products don’t solve the issue. I have notice that people who complain about apple are those who want an iPhone. An iPhone is good for 5-8 years which I can’t say the same for other devices. I’m a htc fan but now I have an iPhone for a reason

Most people who want an iPhone here have one, die to leasing plans. However the prices have gone up so much that the leasing foesnt look nearly as good as it used to, when an iPhone was $646. People call the iPhone XR cheap. But it costs more than a 6 Plus with storage upgrade cost when that device released. That's not to mention the price of the Xs and Mac.

People complain because the price increases have drastically tamped in in recent years.

The MacBook Air price is laughable considering what's in thise machines. Same for the Mac Mini. That has nothing to do with wanting one. I already have an iMac, and could have just gotten another iPhone if I wanted.

They want you to pay for it and crappy Intel Graphics when you can get an i7 and 10th Gen 4-6GB GTX card, with more/faster ram and way better self-serviceability elsewhere at the same price.

At some point, you have to start valuing your own labor and stop making excuses for a corporation, while blaming the consumers for not liking their pricing strategy.

People target Apple more because they tend to have the lowest value proposition in the industry with their PCs and even their phones. You tend to get less for your dollar, but it looks pretty...

The faithful deal with this fine. The people who got Apple simply because it was a FAD aren't so blindered. They are more fickle, and they really aren't thinking in terms of "how can I justify this," but rather "how is this worth that much money."

Fact is, it isn't, but reputation and platform/brand politics is a thing that matters.

And good luck using an iPhone for 5-8 years. Nice exaggeration there, guy.

The iPhone 3gs/4 was 8 years ago.

The iPhone 5s was 5 years ago. And only desperate people are using that phone, as it's been a performance nightmare since iOS 10, at least. The SE was released for a reason.

The software support on iPhone's is good, but phones with 256-1GB RAM perform terribly on later iOS versions, especially running apps with higher system requirements and developed assuming users will be on a more recent device.

Even laptops (and desktops without component upgrades) slow down a lot when they are that old, running recent software revisions (OS and 3rd party).

Also, as you keep the device, and are subjected to newer hardware, the disparity in performance becomes more and more extreme.

My 2013 iMac felt fine. Then I got a PC in late 2017 and it's now relegated to a web browser (or second screen while streaming) because it feels molasses by comparison. This usually drives people to upgrade. Even though it "works" it starts feeling very sluggish because everything else is getting so fast and they're using multiple other devices.

 

[anon(8115241)]

Most people who want an iPhone here have one, die to leasing plans. However the prices have gone up so much that the leasing foesnt look nearly as good as it used to, when an iPhone was $646. People call the iPhone XR cheap. But it costs more than a 6 Plus with storage upgrade cost when that device released. That's not to mention the price of the Xs and Mac.

People complain because the price increases have drastically tamped in in recent years.

The MacBook Air price is laughable considering what's in thise machines. Same for the Mac Mini. That has nothing to do with wanting one. I already have an iMac, and could have just gotten another iPhone if I wanted.

They want you to pay for it and crappy Intel Graphics when you can get an i7 and 10th Gen 4-6GB GTX card, with more/faster ram and way better self-serviceability elsewhere at the same price.

At some point, you have to start valuing your own labor and stop making excuses for a corporation, while blaming the consumers for not liking their pricing strategy.

People target Apple more because they tend to have the lowest value proposition in the industry with their PCs and even their phones. You tend to get less for your dollar, but it looks pretty...

The faithful deal with this fine. The people who got Apple simply because it was a FAD aren't so blindered. They are more fickle, and they really aren't thinking in terms of "how can I justify this," but rather "how is this worth that much money."

Fact is, it isn't, but reputation and platform/brand politics is a thing that matters.

And good luck using an iPhone for 5-8 years. Nice exaggeration there, guy.

The iPhone 3gs/4 was 8 years ago.

The iPhone 5s was 5 years ago. And only desperate people are using that phone, as it's been a performance nightmare since iOS 10, at least. The SE was released for a reason.

The software support on iPhone's is good, but phones with 256-1GB RAM perform terribly on later iOS versions, especially running apps with higher system requirements and developed assuming users will be on a more recent device.

Even laptops (and desktops without component upgrades) slow down a lot when they are that old, running recent software revisions (OS and 3rd party).

Are you saying the iphones don’t last that long?

 

[iN8ter]

Are you saying the iphones don’t last that long?

I'm saying it doesn't matter. Before the phone dies or falls out of support, it will feel oppressive to use, anyways.

We upgraded a 6 Plus last year for that reason. It was an oppressive UX because it felt molasses compared to my 7 Plus and the other, newer, devices we have here.

You're ignoring the fact that advancements in unrelated devices change our perspective of performance.

When everything else gets faster, your old iPhone, PC, etc. feels slower. This becomes a PITA, more and more, and drives upgrades.

SATA SSDs are fast, until you experience NVMe, then the SATA feels like a mechanical HDD, Lol... (exaggeration, to make a point)

Performance management doesnt help. Either.

(This applies to all devices, not just iPhones.)

 

[anon(8115241)]

I'm saying it doesn't matter. Before the phone dies or falls out of support, it will feel oppressive to use, anyways.

We upgraded a 6 Plus last year for that reason. It was an oppressive UX because it felt molasses compared to my 7 Plus and the other, newer, devices we have here.

You're ignoring the fact that advancements in u related devices change our perspective of performance.

When everything g else gets faster, your old iPhone feels slower. This becomes a PITA, more and more, and drives upgrades.

Performance management doesnt help. Either.

(This applies to all devices, not just iPhones.)

Phone never feels slow unless you using a different one from what you have.

 

[iN8ter]

Phone never feels slow unless you using a different one from what you have.

That's very untrue.

Otherwise they wouldn't have to devote an entire iOS release to fixing bad performance on older devices... again.

Some of us remember iOS 8 ;-)

And we all know how Yosemite made older Macs feel... particularly those with 4GB RAM or less.

That's ignoring how the better hardware feels in comparison to older devices. This all compounds. Also read what I wrote. Perception is reality.

If you're on a 6 Plus and see someone using a 7 Plus. You're going to perceive the radical increase in performance. That's not going to go away quickly when you use your old device.

This is why every carrier store has the new phones sitting out there for you to touch and play with ;-) Most people make comparative purchase decisions, and you often see people playing with new phones while comparing to their old phones on the spot.

 

[Tartarus]

I don’t feel Apple is forcing me out. They’re just making it harder to upgrade every year or every other year.
But in the end, I’ll always end up buying their most expensive iPhone on launch day when I want to upgrade.

 

[anon(8115241)]

That's very untrue.

Otherwise they wouldn't have to devote an entire iOS release to fixing bad performance on older devices... again.

Some of us remember iOS 8 ;-)

And we all know how Yosemite made older Macs feel... particularly those with 4GB RAM or less.

That's ignoring how the better hardware feels in comparison to older devices. This all compounds. Also read what I wrote. Perception is reality.

If you're on a 6 Plus and see someone using a 7 Plus. You're going to perceive the radical increase in performance. That's not going to go away quickly when you use your old device.

This is why every carrier store has the new phones sitting out there for you to touch and play with ;-) Most people make comparative purchase decisions, and you often see people playing with new phones while comparing to their old phones on the spot.

I see people everyday with 5s and even six and it works perfectly fine. As I said again, go get a one plus and see how that works for couple years. People who have iPhones know why they spend that much for it

 

[Tpence2177]

If you truly do the math paying a premium for an “iPhone experience” doesn’t add up. While I love my iPhones there are plenty of android phones that are perfectly adequate and WAY cheaper. The moto G6 comes to mind. Plenty snappy and checks almost all of the boxes for $200. Even if you have to upgrade every other year that’s still 8 for the price of one iPhone X’s max 512 gig. So 16 years of phones vs 1 iPhone? I’ll be getting the Xr and keeping it as long as it’s usable and if Apple continues on the price raising path then I’ll just get cheaper android phones. Main reason I’m staying with Apple this time is because my whole family (literally everyone) has iPhones so the experience is still worth it since I’ll only have about $200 out of pocket for my Xr after $300 Sam’s club gift card and selling my 6 plus.

 

[grover5]

I used to think that way about android devices. But I had three die on me in roughly 14 months. A nexus 6 couldn’t connect to cell towers. Antenna died. So I got a nexus 6p. Bootloop of death. Then I got a one plus 3t. Google play store stopped opening two months in. That sure made it difficult to use. I almost forgot my nexus 9 tablet did the bootloop of death as well. I only spent around $500 to $650 for each device. Bargain right? Not so much. Plus I like my privacy. Not a fan of giving google money and still having to give them all my data forever on top of that. No thanks. My iPhones have lasted and have not lost performance. They are pricing them too high right now but with limited options they are the beat buy for me and I can afford. If I didn’t like them I’d probably not be hanging around imore much. You know what I mean?