1. Rob Phillips's Avatar
    My best guess is that Apple isn't claiming that it is more secure without any reason to say so. I'm curious to see how it plays out in the real world.
    Exactly this. Many are very quick to judge something with zero real world experience.

    Chances of Touch ID being spoofed: 1 in 50,000
    Chances of Face ID being spoofed: 1 in 1,000,000

    The authorities are going to get into your device if they really want to, either by force or by coercion. A handcuffed thumb can pretty easily be pressed against a Touch ID reader and most people aren’t willing to be thrown in jail for not allowing authorities to access their phones.

    I’m not saying I love Face ID. I’m going to give it a chance. When Apple does things like this they overwhelmingly do it the right way.
    Almeuit and Aquila like this.
    09-13-2017 11:42 AM
  2. Ralph Morgotch's Avatar
    I am now reading articles off AppyGeek suggesting face ID may actually not be as good as fingerprint ID because supposedly some people can look alike. This contrast to what Apple said the odds were one in 1 million for face ID and one and 50,000 for fingerprint ID so now who knows what to believe.

    I'm sure that Apple would have done the research quite well before they would allow a technology to make mistakes like that. I have more faith right now on what Apple says then the criticizing tech media trying to over analyze every minute aspect of what they are doing.
    09-13-2017 11:44 AM
  3. Ralph Morgotch's Avatar
    Here is the new article about police and Face ID.

    Can Cops Force You to Unlock Your Phone With Your Face?
    http://a.mynews.ly/!MD.GvqPG
    09-13-2017 12:06 PM
  4. sting7k's Avatar
    FaceID essentially makes a dot map of your face with ~30,000 points (It is not a photo of your face). I believe that the TouchID sensor is something like 500 PPI so it could only make a map of your finger with 500 points maximum. Replicating a map of 30,000 points is much more difficult than 500 points. FaceID should be far more secure.
    Ralph Morgotch likes this.
    09-13-2017 12:14 PM
  5. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    FaceID essentially makes a dot map of your face with ~30,000 points (It is not a photo of your face). I believe that the TouchID sensor is something like 500 PPI so it could only make a map of your finger with 500 points maximum. Replicating a map of 30,000 points is much more difficult than 500 points. FaceID should be far more secure.
    Agree. Face ID is new and does seem a bit creepy. So there's going to be a lot of scrutiny and questions.
    09-13-2017 01:27 PM
  6. Tartarus's Avatar
    Face id is trash
    What arguments do you have to substantiate this post?
    09-13-2017 03:52 PM
  7. Sherry_B's Avatar
    Has little to do with "getting arrested"
    You're right. It doesn't. I was replying to what you said about legal situations. Me personally, I could care less about whether or not they want in my phone because I'll not be in a position to have anything to hide.

    it can be as little as "walking down the street" or "going through customs or TSA" or being "Black, Latino, Muslim" in front of any LEO that has a grudge or new "Trump World" attitude. It's about the right to privacy.
    This sounds like something you need to take up with your congressman, and less to do about whether or not the Facial ID is secure.
    Last edited by Sherry_B; 09-13-2017 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Tatarus :)~
    09-13-2017 04:01 PM
  8. Craig's Avatar
    You're right. It doesn't. I was replying to what you said about legal situations. Me personally, I could care less about weather or not they want in my phone because I'll not be in a position to have anything to hide.



    This sounds like something you need to take up with your congressman, and less to do about weather or not the Facial ID is secure.

    It's both, but we're going off topic again. Apple has stood firm on NOT unlocking phones for the Government. Whether anyone has anything to hide on their phone is beyond the point. It's about the right to privacy and I am glad people, myself included are writing our reps in the government and trying to do something. I think Apple is concerned about the same thing, they already voiced their opinion. We will have to see how easy it will be to "force an open phone" in the near future. The 1 in 1M, for a face match is a wonderful thing if it truly works out that way. Glad they tested and used masks and other trials. It may be as easy as someone grabbing your phone from the coffee table, saying "Is this yours" and turning it to your face, and running off. How secure is that?
    09-13-2017 04:18 PM
  9. Sherry_B's Avatar
    It may be as easy as someone grabbing your phone from the coffee table, saying "Is this yours" and turning it to your face, and running off. How secure is that?
    It doesn't work that way. I highly recommend that you watch the keynote, and if you did, please watch it again. It'll help you better understand Facial ID and how it actually works.
    09-13-2017 04:24 PM
  10. Retinella's Avatar
    If I was using it, I wouldn't be worrying about it at all.
    09-13-2017 04:39 PM
  11. Craig's Avatar
    It doesn't work that way. I highly recommend that you watch the keynote, and if you did, please watch it again. It'll help you better understand Facial ID and how it actually works.

    I did watch the Keynote, and have seen other videos online. They're already talking about it in other forums here on iMore how easy it was to hold the phone and turn it towards the "owner" to unlock it. It only needs to see the face "forward a bit up or down" it will not work profile / sideways or with eyes closed. But a forward glance will "unlock the phone"
    09-13-2017 04:46 PM
  12. Sherry_B's Avatar
    I did watch the Keynote, and have seen other videos online.
    Then you know it doesn't work the way you think it does.

    They're already talking about it in other forums here on iMore how easy it was to hold the phone and turn it towards the "owner" to unlock it. It only needs to see the face "forward a bit up or down" it will not work profile / sideways or with eyes closed. But a forward glance will "unlock the phone"
    These people have the new iPhone X and are using it, with proof to back up their claims? Theorizing is one thing, actual proof is another.
    09-13-2017 05:35 PM
  13. Craig's Avatar
    Then you know it doesn't work the way you think it does.



    These people have the new iPhone X and are using it, with proof to back up their claims? Theorizing is one thing, actual proof is another.
    They were using on the floor yesterday after the keynote.. he demo models. Like 9to5 Mac and others. Check the other forums here, there is a link to a video "I think it was Verge" that showed how easy it was for the reporter to open the phone just pointing it at the apple rep. It's not like it's a wide spread "issue' it's just something to consider based on after-keynote sampling.
    09-13-2017 05:41 PM
  14. JML5150's Avatar
    Weren't these same type of questions asked when Touch ID came about?
    09-13-2017 06:09 PM
  15. Sherry_B's Avatar
    They were using on the floor yesterday after the keynote.. he demo models. Like 9to5 Mac and others. Check the other forums here, there is a link to a video "I think it was Verge" that showed how easy it was for the reporter to open the phone just pointing it at the apple rep. It's not like it's a wide spread "issue' it's just something to consider based on after-keynote sampling.

    Share the link to this video?
    09-13-2017 06:29 PM
  16. Craig's Avatar
    As soon as I find it, I think it's under the iPhone X forum here.. I will google it when home.
    Sherry_B likes this.
    09-13-2017 06:40 PM
  17. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    Share the link to this video?
    Around the 2:00 mark
    https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/12/1...video-hands-on
    Sherry_B likes this.
    09-13-2017 06:45 PM
  18. Sherry_B's Avatar
    Yeah, that's bad.

    Edit: Although it does make me wonder what type of security they have set up on those demo phones. I mean, what prevented someone from setting a Face ID lock, putting the phone down and then walking off. I'm not discounting what I saw with my own eyes, just offering an additional thought.
    09-13-2017 07:08 PM
  19. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    Yeah, that's bad.

    Edit: Although it does make me wonder what type of security they have set up on those demo phones. I mean, what prevented someone from setting a Face ID lock, putting the phone down and then walking off. I'm not discounting what I saw with my own eyes, just offering an additional thought.
    It's just easier and more incognito to grab a phone and quickly flash it in front of a face than it is to grab a phone, grab a person's thumb, and force it on Touch ID.
    Rob Phillips likes this.
    09-13-2017 07:15 PM
  20. Tartarus's Avatar
    Let’s be real here for a second. How often will it happen that you will leave your phone unattended and not notice someone pointing it to your face???
    Spencerdl and Sherry_B like this.
    09-13-2017 07:46 PM
  21. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    Let’s be real here for a second. How often will it happen that you will leave your phone unattended and not notice someone pointing it to your face???
    Of course not often. But I could easily be in a room with you and just grab your phone and do it just to mess with you.
    09-13-2017 08:24 PM
  22. Tartarus's Avatar
    Of course not often. But I could easily be in a room with you and just grab your phone and do it just to mess with you.
    I hear you. I guess we’ll see enough posts on Reddit / YouTube from people doing this to mess with their friends.

    Luckily, because I’m not a teenager or even in my twenties anymore, my friends won’t do this to me.
    09-13-2017 08:29 PM
  23. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    I hear you. I guess we’ll see enough posts on Reddit / YouTube from people doing this to mess with their friends.

    Luckily, because I’m not a teenager or even in my twenties anymore, my friends won’t do this to me.
    I would, and I'm almost 65.
    09-13-2017 09:09 PM
  24. Sherry_B's Avatar
    just grab your phone and do it just to mess with you.
    That's like throwing your leg over a bikers Harley. It's just not done.
    Spencerdl likes this.
    09-13-2017 09:39 PM
  25. Tartarus's Avatar
    I would, and I'm almost 65.
    I’m pretty sure people will mess around for the first few months or so with this and the fun will erode and people start to act normal about it.
    09-14-2017 03:43 AM
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