So how exactly is Apple losing marketshare to Google's Android platform?

[A895]

I get what you're saying I don't necessarily feel it undermines my device if Apple were to sell to the low-end market. But, on the other side of that, I think if/when Apple sells to the low end market, it might cheapen the brand down a little. If all of a sudden Apple came out with a phone that was $200 off contract running something like iOS 3.0, I think we'd see some problems with both the device and the brand image.

Brand image has nothing to do with your own device. That is your own perception problem.

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[A895]

http://images.wikia.com/mlp/images/4/4a/Dolls_Laughing.gif

Are you guys just talking out of your rear ends about Apple's foreign market success? Am I really reading a couple of guys here saying that they, for some weird reason, think Apple isn't firmly planted in international markets? Have you guys looked at news reports over the last 4 years since Apple really started pushing the iPhone and iPad in these markets you're talking about? My god man! Go use google and search for it! It's all right there for the taking!

Do you realize that Apple is actually growing faster internationally than they are here? I'll do your work for you on a single citation... China Drove Big iPhone And iPad Sales For Apple During Q3 2014 | TechCrunch

Some of you in here make it seem like Apple would be better off turning into the Walmart of smart phones...you know...like Samsung vs. maintaining a brand and continuing to dominate year after year with their single, solitary smart phone device.

I really can't believe I'm reading this here...I almost wish some of you were trolls so I could just chalk it up to trolling.

I have no clue why you feel so strongly about this. They as a manufacturer are bug, but the fact is shipments OS wise, Android dominates and that is what was this was about, if they actually catered to more markets they can make even more money, more shipments, more market share.

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[Flow39]

Brand image has nothing to do with your own device. That is your own perception problem.

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Umm, brand image is not a huge thing for me. Look, if a device for $200 gave me the same performance and build quality and support of the iPhone, but without the brand image, I'd snatch it up right away. The thing is, Apple does all of that plus has the brand image to go along with it.

Another thing: What if all of a sudden a car company (I know you hate car analogies, but hear me out) such as McLaren decided to start licensing out their cars to be sold at an Avis or Hertz type of place, but instead of top-end McLarens, they decided to try and compete with the Kia and Hyundai type of cars. This would really cheapen the brand image, and would definitely hurt their sales.

This would be the same case with Apple, I fear. Starting to compete with the Moto Gs of the world and trying to make devices for the low end would hurt their brand image at least a little.

 

[Flow39]

Well right now apple doesn't have the market share (assuming you include all those low end android phones) but they have the largest "profit share" of all the phone manufacturers by far. So what is their incentive to change? Will this business strategy always work for them? Who knows, but they've had a pretty good run with it so far.

Indeed. For like what, 30+ years?

 

[A895]

Umm, brand image is not a huge thing for me. Look, if a device for $200 gave me the same performance and build quality and support of the iPhone, but without the brand image, I'd snatch it up right away. The thing is, Apple does all of that plus has the brand image to go along with it.

Another thing: What if all of a sudden a car company (I know you hate car analogies, but hear me out) such as McLaren decided to start licensing out their cars to be sold at an Avis or Hertz type of place, but instead of top-end McLarens, they decided to try and compete with the Kia and Hyundai type of cars. This would really cheapen the brand image, and would definitely hurt their sales.

This would be the same case with Apple, I fear. Starting to compete with the Moto Gs of the world and trying to make devices for the low end would hurt their brand image at least a little.

Doubtful, more positive than negative if they were to make a low ends device and it would not affect you. You would still be able to get a top of the line iPhone (more expensive one).

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[A895]

Indeed. For like what, 30+ years?

Noooo, they were doing bad in the 90s remember? Microsoft helped them out a bit. They have been doing good the whole 21st century at least so far. But that can change.

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[Beyond Fire]

Noooo, they were doing bad in the 90s remember? Microsoft helped them out a bit. They have been doing good the whole 21st century at least so far. But that can change.

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You're right that can change, but I don't think Apple going the route of BlackBerry and offering low end devices would benefit them.

 

[A895]

You're right that can change, but I don't think Apple going the route of BlackBerry and offering low end devices would benefit them.

Of course they aren't going the route of BlackBerry but offering a low end device would benefit them, don't see how it is a negative. Unless you are the type of person who feels their device changes because variants of it are cheaper.

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[Speedygi]

You're right that can change, but I don't think Apple going the route of BlackBerry and offering low end devices would benefit them.

No, but adapting to the competition would.

 

[Tre Lawrence]

LOL... The Ferrari comparisons were thick for a moment.

I think Apple has already adjusted. They already order devices in different price points, and do it in such a way that current owners don't feel like our devices are any less "premium."

But Apple has plenty of time in my estimation. It can afford to keep the status quo for quite a while.

 

[natasftw]

That seems elitist. Wouldn't as a company goal be to maximize profit? Couldn't they do that by catering to more users? Or is the luxury image something that you don't want them to lose?

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Couldn't and wouldn't aren't the same thing.

Maximizing profits doesn't necessarily equate to maximizing customers. Let's use two hypothetical devices to explain this to you. The higher end product makes $2 of profit per unit. The lower end makes $1 of profit per unit. It would take twice as many users to have the same profit.

If you're concerned with profit percentages, keep in mind the absolute difference in cost between the low-end and the high-end components isn't that large. The real cost differences will be in R&D and production. This makes it easier to find a larger percentage with the higher end product than the cheaper product. This means it's harder to maximize profit with the cheaper device.

You're also ignoring the concept of cannibalization. Many people choose the iPhone to enjoy or maintain their access to iOS. If there was a cheaper alternative, there is the chance Apple will lose profits on that customer as a result of offering the cheaper device.

Generally speaking, what you ask could be right. But, it could also be wrong for a variety of reasons. It's not so much elitism as it is the rejection of willful ignorance.

 

[A895]

Couldn't and wouldn't aren't the same thing.

Maximizing profits doesn't necessarily equate to maximizing customers. Let's use two hypothetical devices to explain this to you. The higher end product makes $2 of profit per unit. The lower end makes $1 of profit per unit. It would take twice as many users to have the same profit.

If you're concerned with profit percentages, keep in mind the absolute difference in cost between the low-end and the high-end components isn't that large. The real cost differences will be in R&D and production. This makes it easier to find a larger percentage with the higher end product than the cheaper product. This means it's harder to maximize profit with the cheaper device.

You're also ignoring the concept of cannibalization. Many people choose the iPhone to enjoy or maintain their access to iOS. If there was a cheaper alternative, there is the chance Apple will lose profits on that customer as a result of offering the cheaper device.

Generally speaking, what you ask could be right. But, it could also be wrong for a variety of reasons. It's not so much elitism as it is the rejection of willful ignorance.

No, it is not ignorance, it is plain fact there model isn't sustainable long term, high market is getting saturated. There are over 7 billion people in the world, only a little over a 1 billion have access to smart phones, you have to make a device for the next billion or else you are going be waiting for the person who already has the latest and greatest to go out and buy again soon.

It works now, I think in maybe 5 years they will have to adjust. And at the same time, of course cheaper phones equal smaller profit margins but what company can better take that risk than Apple? I think your argument stems from and quite a few arguments stem from that you are worried about the brand getting diluted which is just what you think people view your electronics as and believe me no one will care less.

If you have high end, you have high end iPhones to enjoy for those who want the cheaper iOS experience they can have it. Every other OS does this, yet all of sudden it hurts Apple because, reasons? Weird.

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[A895]

LOL... The Ferrari comparisons were thick for a moment.

I think Apple has already adjusted. They already order devices in different price points, and do it in such a way that current owners don't feel like our devices are any less "premium."

But Apple has plenty of time in my estimation. It can afford to keep the status quo for quite a while.

They have devices at one price range, those older devices most of that profit goes to third parties if it reaches Apple at all. And this is about expanding to less prosperous counties and making smart phones for more users instead of old phones.

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[anon(4698833)]

You literally haven't a clue what you're talking about, and I'm laughing here reading your attempts and explaining how your stance is some how the better path. Please just stop...LOL!

The fact that you isolate and label the idea of brand degradation as "elitist" speaks worlds to your simple (and skewed) view of the business. The fact that you told someone the car analogies don't work here just defines the fact that you don't really get it...they fit perfectly, but could be replaced with really ANY luxury brand analogy. You think Saks cares what kind of sales numbers Walmart churns out with clothing? In & Out cares how many burgers McDonalds is cranking out daily? Rolex cares how many watches Fossil moves at your local Macy's?

I guess Saks should start selling $8 jeans...In & Out should start freezing patties so they can open stores in 50 states on every corner...Rolex should release a $40 model so everyone can feel special?

I'm beginning to really understand your approach here. You're one of these "Everyone is a winner!" type personalities...the guy that supports every kid getting a 1st place trophy, regardless of performance, every person deserves cable/internet/smart phone regardless of income...and every person deserves a raise!

Please...just stop.

 

[A895]

You literally haven't a clue what you're talking about, and I'm laughing here reading your attempts and explaining how your stance is some how the better path. Please just stop...LOL!

The fact that you isolate and label the idea of brand degradation as "elitist" speaks worlds to your simple (and skewed) view of the business. The fact that you told someone the car analogies don't work here just defines the fact that you don't really get it...they fit perfectly, but could be replaced with really ANY luxury brand analogy. You think Saks cares what kind of sales numbers Walmart churns out with clothing? In & Out cares how many burgers McDonalds is cranking out daily? Rolex cares how many watches Fossil moves at your local Macy's?

I guess Saks should start selling $8 jeans...In & Out should start freezing patties so they can open stores in 50 states on every corner...Rolex should release a $40 model so everyone can feel special?

I'm beginning to really understand your approach here. You're one of these "Everyone is a winner!" type personalities...the guy that supports every kid getting a 1st place trophy, regardless of performance, every person deserves cable/internet/smart phone regardless of income...and every person deserves a raise!

Please...just stop.

Actually that isn't my personality at all, what is your problem? I have no clue what brought on this tirade you have, but it is not becoming. It is just an idea, we use forums to discuss ideas and get help. I discussed an idea, but you are using my idea as an indication of my own personality, which I don't understand at all.

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[cbobb123]

TBH Apple could make the iPhone 6 for the high end market and then actually get the 6c right and make it for the low end market because the 5c was still pretty expensive. It's not that hard to do if you think about it...

 

[A895]

TBH Apple could make the iPhone 6 for the high end market and then actually get the 6c right and make it for the low end market because the 5c was still pretty expensive. It's not that hard to do if you think about it...

I agree with you. Also, whatever happened to that lower cost 8GB iPhone 5C? Never heard a thing about since it's release.

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[kch50428]

I have no clue why you feel so strongly about this.

What about you? You seem like you're on a religious crusade to turn Apple into a Samsung clone. They presently don't compete for the low end of the market. That's not going to change any time soon no matter how much you pine for it.

 

[A895]

What about you? You seem like you're on a religious crusade to turn Apple into a Samsung clone. They presently don't compete for the low end of the market. That's not going to change any time soon no matter how much you pine for it.

All I had was an idea, and as a forum we share ideas and discuss them. I never suggest Apple be like Samsung, I am saying they can expand into more markets. I didn't pine for ANYTHING, I had an idea. If you don't like that is fine, but it seems everyone here is just trying to shoot down my idea and suggestions like they are the worst thing ever, whatever I'm leaving.

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[kch50428]

All I had was an idea, and as a forum we share ideas and discuss them. I never suggest Apple be like Samsung, I am saying they can expand into more markets. I didn't pine for ANYTHING, I had an idea. If you don't like that is fine, but it seems everyone here is just trying to shoot down my idea and suggestions like they are the worst thing ever, whatever I'm leaving.

You clamor for Apple to serve the low end of the market, are presented with ample evidence as to why they don't... You're met with contrary opinion to yours, and you run away from the "discussion" you claim to want... Oh well...