1. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    Android has its presence on "high end devices" since the beginning too, it's not like it's always entry level all the way, and some of these devices, in some ways, even has the same or higher level of production levels that Apple has put into its devices. Motorola has had seen rising marketshare and profits, while offering a more diverse Phone range, and no one ever accuses Motorola of being cheap. I don't see how Apple can't do the same.

    Unless most of the fans disagree, of course.
    Yeah Motorola was lost billions for Google every quarter they owned it. Then they sold it to Lenovo.
    08-18-2014 05:48 PM
  2. Speedygi's Avatar
    Yeah Motorola was lost billions for Google every quarter they owned it. Then they sold it to Lenovo.
    But they did have improving sales over the quarters, if I'm correct.
    08-18-2014 05:49 PM
  3. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    But they did have improving sales over the quarters, if I'm correct.
    No idea. But Google didn't think they could turn it around or they wouldnt have sold it. So I kinda doubt the sales were that good. An as an investor, I'm looking at current and potential future profits, not improving sales (for the record I don't directly own shares in any of these companies although I don't doubt I own mutual funds that do).
    08-18-2014 05:53 PM
  4. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Android has its presence on "high end devices" since the beginning too, it's not like it's always entry level all the way, and some of these devices, in some ways, even has the same or higher level of production levels that Apple has put into its devices. Motorola has had seen rising marketshare and profits, while offering a more diverse Phone range, and no one ever accuses Motorola of being cheap. I don't see how Apple can't do the same.

    Unless most of the fans disagree, of course.
    Except Android didn't even come into existence until more than a year after the iPhone's release...and then even further out with phones that were actual competitors for the iPhone (Galaxy line, Nexus, etc). The first Android devices were not high end offerings...not by a long shot.

    To be 100% honest, I don't have any idea what point you're trying to make...who said anything about build quality of the phones offered now vs. the iPhone on the high end? The discussion isn't really relevant at all to this post.

    Also, Motorola's offerings are not competitive on any level to the iPhone in terms of what this discussion is about.
    BreakingKayfabe likes this.
    08-18-2014 10:16 PM
  5. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    Speaking of high-end phones, I don't find any Android phones on the market right now to be "high-end" when compared to the iPhone. HTC, Samsung, LG, etc. None of them. Each of those manufacturers have their own high-end devices as compared to all the other Android phones each of those companies make. Fact of the matter is that Apple basically makes 3 different iPhones in the U.S. They still offer the 4S, the 5C, and the 5S. The build quality (since we're on the subject of that also) on each those phones is top-notch. Why do you think there is hardly ever any spectacle around the time of a release of certain Android phones? The freaken iPhone rumors are making it on TMZ now. Do you realize that the 5S will be more usable in 2017 than the HTC One M8? I would bet my house that the 5S would be able to use features of iOS 11 than the 4S is able to use for iOS 8. Talk about high-end. I'm just scrambling all over the place with this now, but I'm sure most of you get my point here.
    Flow39 likes this.
    08-19-2014 01:45 PM
  6. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Speaking of high-end phones, I don't find any Android phones on the market right now to be "high-end" when compared to the iPhone.
    LOL, to be fair, I'd expect for iPhone enthusiasts to think only the iPhone is high end. I've heard Android, BBRY folks and WP8 users say the same about their devices.

    I'm way looser. I'd say Android has several, and BBRY has at least two, and WP8 has a few.

    Depends on one's perspective, I guess.
    08-19-2014 03:54 PM
  7. Derrick4Real's Avatar
    Except once again you can't lose something you never have (or more appropriately, never participated in). Apple doesn't venture into the entry level market, where Android thrives and where google makes MOST of it's money off the OS. It's like trying to say that Tesla should be concerned with the marketshare GM has on the compact car market. It simply isn't relevant. I know tons of people who buy compact cars, what difference does it make? None.

    Your Microsoft analogy doesn't work because Microsoft WAS/IS the general spectrum PC maker...in fact, in terms of this discussion, its pretty much the opposite, and would speak more towards Samsung's potential concerns about Apple's movement in the market. Microsoft commanded the market of PC's across the spectrum, until someone came in and brought a luxury line of PC's that took over that consumer base. The same is true with the iPhone and Apple, only they have maintained that dominance since the first true breath of smart phones.
    Apple did have some market share. You're losing that. Apple didn't have ZERO market share. They had some market share. Globally it has seen a decline and thus they are losing market share.

    And saying apple does or doesn't venture into the entry level market doesn't change that in places in the world people are buying more android phones. But it's also wrong. The $99 iphone is an entry level phone, the iphone c is entry level. Hell if you remotely try hard you can find and new iphone with scant memory for free on contract just like lots of entry level phones.

    Cars and PC markets are simply not similar. There are many more players, product choice, and less dominant players. Not to mention you can easily switch car makers if you know how to drive. If you run a pharmaceutical company, that has in house coders that wrote proprietary software for windows to run 4 year R&D programs you're not just switching to Linux or OSX no matter what. And if you don't think Tesla is trying to take market share from bigger auto players you're naive.

    Microsoft was a software company not a pc maker. Apple makes pcs and software. IBM was the company Microsoft contracted with to make PCs and offer Windows as a Dos GUI. My point is about how software ties people to a platform and did. And you conveniently ignored my statement that "i don't think it's entirely analogous."

    I'm talking about software. Bottom line is Microsoft came in, licensed their OS cheaply, and dominated the PC market while Apple refused, priced their product very high, and got slaughtered on market share almost bankrupting the company. Those are facts. But again i said it's not entirely analogous so it seems strange to attack me based on something i've admitted already in the text.Even so you're attack is misguided. This is a discussion about android, an operating system, not a single manufacturer so you can't confine it to simply Samsung. Samsung can leave the phone market and there will still be tons of android phones to buy.
    08-19-2014 04:16 PM
  8. Derrick4Real's Avatar
    LOL, to be fair, I'd expect for iPhone enthusiasts to think only the iPhone is high end.
    Boom. This. Which is what most of these threads boil down to. My phone brand of choice is better than you pissing contests.
    cbobb123, A895 and Smply_Rcklss like this.
    08-19-2014 04:20 PM
  9. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    LOL, to be fair, I'd expect for iPhone enthusiasts to think only the iPhone is high end. I've heard Android, BBRY folks and WP8 users say the same about their devices.

    I'm way looser. I'd say Android has several, and BBRY has at least two, and WP8 has a few.

    Depends on one's perspective, I guess.
    I am an iPhone enthusiast who has had mobile phones dating back to 1989. Having said that, If Apple only makes high end iPhones, wouldn't anyone come to the conclusion that only the iPhone is high end? Think about it. There are so many Android devices and the manufacture and the OS can be different on each one. The same can be said of build quality, and to compare each one to the iPhone is silly, in my opinion. That is NOT saying that HTC, Motorola or Samsung does not make quality devices because they do, but when you clump Android as a whole, well....
    08-19-2014 04:36 PM
  10. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Boom. This. Which is what most of these threads boil down to. My phone brand of choice is better than you pissing contests.
    Many threads do boil down to this, unfortunately, but seriously, let's be real for a moment. This is iMore, a predominantly Apple based tech forum. We've all witnessed people who venture into this Apple-centric forum to show us that a specific non-Apple smartphone is better than the iPhone and create their thread in the form of a "what do you think of the ....?" question. Then it turns into a mine is better than yours thread, and then they try to justify it by saying, "I, too, own Apple products"....
    Last edited by JustMe'D; 08-19-2014 at 05:57 PM.
    08-19-2014 04:41 PM
  11. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I am an iPhone enthusiast who has had mobile phones dating back to 1989. Having said that, If Apple only makes high end iPhones, wouldn't anyone come to the conclusion that only the iPhone is high end? Think about it. There are so many Android devices and the manufacture and the OS can be different on each one. The same can be said of build quality, and to compare each one to the iPhone is silly, in my opinion. That is NOT saying that HTC, Motorola or Samsung does not make quality devices because they do, but when you clump Android as a whole, well....
    ...but to say only Apple makes premium devices?

    It's an interesting perspective, but as I noted, one that isn't only restricted to just iMore.
    A895 likes this.
    08-19-2014 04:47 PM
  12. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    LOL, to be fair, I'd expect for iPhone enthusiasts to think only the iPhone is high end. I've heard Android, BBRY folks and WP8 users say the same about their devices.

    I'm way looser. I'd say Android has several, and BBRY has at least two, and WP8 has a few.

    Depends on one's perspective, I guess.
    I said the high-end Android devices were of those that compared to Android and not the iPhone. It is based on perspective and my perspective is that of the fact that an iPhone IS premium because it doesn't come with a ton of brethren (lower end iPhones).

    Boom. This. Which is what most of these threads boil down to. My phone brand of choice is better than you pissing contests.
    That's how you see it. I'm replying to you on my Note 3. I don't have a brand loyalty but I have preferablitiy when it comes to things. I honestly think that the iPhone and its build quality along with its usability far outweighs the Android competitors.

    ...but to say only Apple makes premium devices?

    It's an interesting perspective, but as I noted, one that isn't only restricted to just iMore.
    So if it's not only restricted to an Apple enthusiast site, then what does that tell you? lol
    08-19-2014 05:16 PM
  13. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Apple did have some market share. You're losing that. Apple didn't have ZERO market share. They had some market share. Globally it has seen a decline and thus they are losing market share.

    And saying apple does or doesn't venture into the entry level market doesn't change that in places in the world people are buying more android phones. But it's also wrong. The $99 iphone is an entry level phone, the iphone c is entry level. Hell if you remotely try hard you can find and new iphone with scant memory for free on contract just like lots of entry level phones.

    Cars and PC markets are simply not similar. There are many more players, product choice, and less dominant players. Not to mention you can easily switch car makers if you know how to drive. If you run a pharmaceutical company, that has in house coders that wrote proprietary software for windows to run 4 year R&D programs you're not just switching to Linux or OSX no matter what. And if you don't think Tesla is trying to take market share from bigger auto players you're naive.

    Microsoft was a software company not a pc maker. Apple makes pcs and software. IBM was the company Microsoft contracted with to make PCs and offer Windows as a Dos GUI. My point is about how software ties people to a platform and did. And you conveniently ignored my statement that "i don't think it's entirely analogous."

    I'm talking about software. Bottom line is Microsoft came in, licensed their OS cheaply, and dominated the PC market while Apple refused, priced their product very high, and got slaughtered on market share almost bankrupting the company. Those are facts. But again i said it's not entirely analogous so it seems strange to attack me based on something i've admitted already in the text.Even so you're attack is misguided. This is a discussion about android, an operating system, not a single manufacturer so you can't confine it to simply Samsung. Samsung can leave the phone market and there will still be tons of android phones to buy.
    I stopped reading this non-sense when you started talking about the iPhone being entry level because of subsidized pricing from carriers...are you freakin' kidding me? On what planet does that qualify as relevant to this discussion? You do realize that these Android devices that are being sold on the low end of the spectrum are UNSUBSIDIZED...and under $200. Holy christ...I'm still sitting here in awe that you actually brought subsidies into this discussion...just wow.

    Also, I'm not "losing" anything...Apple NEVER had ANY marketshare of the low end cellular phone market because they never sold a low end cellular phone. I don't understand how this concept is evading you.

    I've never confined anything to one Android based device or company that made them...and misguided? How so? Nothing I have posted is misguided at all, in fact, it seems you're so far off the subject that you're spiraling in this weird discussion about software now. Lemme guide you back to the topic at hand so we can avoid another off kilter post from you...most Android based devices sold fall within a realm of cellular phone that someone could consider "entry"...a place that Apple does not participate because their products are upper tier...and because of that, the argument made that Android device marketshare vs. the iPhone becomes absolutely moot because the top tier Android offerings fall below the iPhone if we were to consider marketshare based on those, and obviously profit share (since Apple controls that regardless).

    Please come back to us bud...you've ventured too far out of the yard.
    08-20-2014 12:58 AM
  14. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Boom. This. Which is what most of these threads boil down to. My phone brand of choice is better than you pissing contests.
    It's so unfortunate that you've missed the point of the original post...such a shame because it should be common knowledge given how little intelligence it takes to really see the facts. This isn't a pissing contest at all...this is a redemption post in counter to the comments given about Android marketshare, pointing out how erroneous said marketshare is when the majority of that "share" is made up of sales of cellular phones that aren't even in the same league as Apple's offering, and when it comes down to it, none of the upper tier phones are all that competitive alone vs. the singular device that Apple produces.

    You can lead a horse to water but you can't force it to drink. Such a shame.
    08-20-2014 01:04 AM
  15. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    All this low-end talk makes me think about how when Apple introduced the iPod Nano. Imagine if the MP3 player enthusiasm was the same as the smartphone enthusiasm now? People who loved other MP3 players would have said that the Nano was an entry-level, low-end MP3 player and would have been spewing out stats on how people with those other MP3 players loaded more music than iPods.
    A895 likes this.
    08-20-2014 01:16 AM
  16. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    All this low-end talk makes me think about how when Apple introduced the iPod Nano. Imagine if the MP3 player enthusiasm was the same as the smartphone enthusiasm now? People who loved other MP3 players would have said that the Nano was an entry-level, low-end MP3 player and would have been spewing out stats on how people with those other MP3 players loaded more music than iPods.
    Apple REALLY had no competition back then though...Rio was like the closest thing to a competitor and it was laughable at best. Sony was still trying to push Mini-disc back then for god's sake! LOL! The biggest competitor was the iPod Classic, and like the Macbook Air, the Nano was a fully featured MP3 player, it was just smaller and sleeker and, while cheaper, still more expensive than any other competitor from other companies, and still boasted significant internal storage (especially for the early 00's).
    08-20-2014 01:39 AM
  17. BreakingKayfabe's Avatar
    Apple REALLY had no competition back then though...Rio was like the closest thing to a competitor and it was laughable at best. Sony was still trying to push Mini-disc back then for god's sake! LOL! The biggest competitor was the iPod Classic, and like the Macbook Air, the Nano was a fully featured MP3 player, it was just smaller and sleeker and, while cheaper, still more expensive than any other competitor from other companies, and still boasted significant internal storage (especially for the early 00's).
    Ugh. The Rio and the iRiver. After I had enough of those two pieces of trash I finally opened up my wallet and just spent the money on a damn iPod (classic). It got so bad with the rio and iRiver that while I still owned the products I was still using a Discman at the gym before I got an iPod. Anyway, I digress.
    08-20-2014 01:46 AM
  18. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Ugh. The Rio and the iRiver. After I had enough of those two pieces of trash I finally opened up my wallet and just spent the money on a damn iPod (classic). It got so bad with the rio and iRiver that while I still owned the products I was still using a Discman at the gym before I got an iPod. Anyway, I digress.
    Trust me, I feel your pain. I remember buying my wife a Rio for jogging...this was at a time where 100% of my music was on CD or CD-R (from ripped files on my computer that were, for all intents and purposes, enormous). I think we loaded it with music twice, and then it slept in a drawer for years until one day I found it and laughed and threw it away.

    I also want to add something to this thread...a little food for thought. The iPhone, on average, costs Apple around $200 to produce, package and ship for sale on the low end. That is the same cost of these devices that dominate the Android marketshare in TOTAL to the consumer. That should speak worlds to those who keep wanting to argue how important marketshare is.
    08-20-2014 01:51 AM
  19. kilofoxtrot's Avatar
    Marketshare is too broad of a term when dealing with Android vs Google. Are we talking Hardware? Software? Search? Ad Impressions? App Revenue, etc etc.

    Depending on what type of marketshare you are dealing with.... both sides can be winners and losers.
    cbobb123, A895 and Speedygi like this.
    08-20-2014 11:15 AM
  20. anony_mouse's Avatar
    How many times have we had trolls and even some irritating members swoop in and say "Apple is getting decimated by Android device sales!" or some variant of the same idea. We get into a debate, we talk about comparing singular devices against Apple's singular smart phone option, but we still get the same old story, the whole "Woe is Apple" routine.

    Well, here's a nice article (albeit from Engadget, which I don't particularly care for most times) showing a pretty monumental piece of information about what phones are actually controlling the market...and it leaves me feeling the same as always, Apple has nothing to worry about since they don't even compete within the league that Android does most of their business...lol!

    Most new Android phones sell for less than $200
    I'm totally lost about what point are you trying to make. Android has much higher market share than Apple in unit terms - Apple is indeed "losing market share" at the moment. Are you claiming that isn't the case? And if Android phones are cheaper than Apple's, how is that a bad thing? It's a major reason why I bought an Android phone rather than an iPhone. However, I don't think anyone with more than half a brain thinks that Apple is dying at the present time and they make very fine profits.

    Please can you explain what injustice you feel is being done against Apple?
    Smply_Rcklss and A895 like this.
    08-21-2014 09:24 AM
  21. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I'm totally lost about what point are you trying to make. Android has much higher market share than Apple in unit terms - Apple is indeed "losing market share" at the moment. Are you claiming that isn't the case? And if Android phones are cheaper than Apple's, how is that a bad thing? It's a major reason why I bought an Android phone rather than an iPhone. However, I don't think anyone with more than half a brain thinks that Apple is dying at the present time and they make very fine profits.


    Please can you explain what injustice you feel is being done against Apple?
    Question: So how exactly is Apple losing marketshare to Google's Android platform?

    Answer: The influx of low-cost devices also helps to explain year-over-year dips in market share for both iOS (11.7 percent) and Windows Phone (2.5 percent), which pale next to Android's 84.7 percent slice of the pie. Apple doesn't participate in the sub-$200 realm to start with, so it won't compete in terms of sheer units;

    Source: The link posted in the original post.

    As for Android phones being cheaper than Apple's, it is NOT a bad thing. It's just not Apple's thing. That's all.
    08-21-2014 10:12 AM
  22. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    I'm totally lost about what point are you trying to make. Android has much higher market share than Apple in unit terms - Apple is indeed "losing market share" at the moment. Are you claiming that isn't the case? And if Android phones are cheaper than Apple's, how is that a bad thing? It's a major reason why I bought an Android phone rather than an iPhone. However, I don't think anyone with more than half a brain thinks that Apple is dying at the present time and they make very fine profits.

    Please can you explain what injustice you feel is being done against Apple?
    I'm sorry you're totally lost...using one of your own comments, I figured the point was obvious to anyone with "more than a brain", but perhaps that assumption was a bit much.

    To clarify for you, the link I presented showed that the majority of Android's marketshare reflects the sale of entry level devices...a non-subsidized, sub-$200 tier of phones that Apple doesn't touch because they focus on their singular, top tier smart phone device. In case you need the point spelled out further for you, this information should lend itself to anyone reading it with "more than half a brain" that presenting this kind of marketshare against Apple is irrelevant considering Apple does not participate in such a market, and when you remove these devices from the marketshare "discussion" (which is usually used as an attack point against the iPhone and Apple itself), you start to see a different story all together.

    Let me know if you're confused about anything else in here buddy...we have quite a few people who can help you out. Or you could just be a good little [redacted] and see yourself out...sparing yourself any further embarrassment.
    Last edited by JustMe'D; 08-21-2014 at 01:30 PM. Reason: removed name calling
    08-21-2014 10:25 AM
  23. anony_mouse's Avatar
    I'm sorry you're totally lost...using one of your own comments, I figured the point was obvious to anyone with "more than a brain", but perhaps that assumption was a bit much.

    To clarify for you, the link I presented showed that the majority of Android's marketshare reflects the sale of entry level devices...a non-subsidized, sub-$200 tier of phones that Apple doesn't touch because they focus on their singular, top tier smart phone device. In case you need the point spelled out further for you, this information should lend itself to anyone reading it with "more than half a brain" that presenting this kind of marketshare against Apple is irrelevant considering Apple does not participate in such a market, and when you remove these devices from the marketshare "discussion" (which is usually used as an attack point against the iPhone and Apple itself), you start to see a different story all together.
    Well thank you for the explanations. I'll try writing them in my own words, and you can tell me if I've understood correctly.
    - Android market share is now a lot higher than Apple's in unit terms.
    - You are claiming this point is not (or is no longer) relevant when discussing Apple because Apple do not make phones below $200.
    Is this claim fair? Well, that depends on what you are discussing.
    - If you are discussing market share of phones costing more than $200, then I agree with you. Phones sold below $200 are not relevant.
    - If you are discussing the smart phone market as a whole, sales of phones costing less than $200 are absolutely relevant and you are wrong. And very rude.
    - If someone identifies very strongly with Apple, a large American corporation, they may perceive these market share numbers to be very threatening to them. Hence their use of the word 'attack' in the post above, and pretty much the rest of the post too.
    - Why someone would identify so strongly with a large American company is very hard for me to say. I'd certainly like you to elaborate on that point. BTW, I am the owner of multiple Apple devices and for the most part I am happy with them. However, if someone tells me Apple are losing market share, it doesn't bother me, so I find it hard to understand the anger I see on these forums.

    Do I understand now?

    Let me know if you're confused about anything else in here buddy...we have quite a few people who can help you out. Or you could just be a good little [redacted] and see yourself out...sparing yourself any further embarrassment.
    Calling someone a troll is disrespectful and against forum rules. Please edit your post.
    Last edited by JustMe'D; 08-21-2014 at 01:31 PM.
    cbobb123 and A895 like this.
    08-21-2014 11:07 AM
  24. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Well thank you for the explanations. I'll try writing them in my own words, and you can tell me if I've understood correctly.
    - Android market share is now a lot higher than Apple's in unit terms.
    - You are claiming this point is not (or is no longer) relevant when discussing Apple because Apple do not make phones below $200.
    No, the comparison is not relevant because the devices sold in that tier of device are not competitive with the iPhone. Even your (laughably) beloved Moto G compared to Apple's entry level device, the 5c. The fact that Apple doesn't participate in the pricing point is just a clarification point...these are low tier devices with entry level features/functions/design...these are your budget friendly options with budget friendly relevance.

    Is this claim fair? Well, that depends on what you are discussing.
    - If you are discussing market share of phones costing more than $200, then I agree with you. Phones sold below $200 are not relevant.
    - If you are discussing the smart phone market as a whole, sales of phones costing less than $200 are absolutely relevant and you are wrong. And very rude.
    Nothing rude about it...if you feel a certain way about preferring and opting to invest in a budget friendly Android device, that's your choice and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Some of us can't afford spending money on higher tier devices...regardless of make or model. There are some great options in the low tier, and thankfully for people like yourself, you get some great feature sets for your money. You're still on the low end of the spectrum though, whether you want to admit to yourself or not, there are better options at the top of the spectrum, and people pay more money for them. It's like that with pretty much any consumer product. Can store brand cereal taste similar to name brand? Sure! But there's a reason the name brand still commands a premium. You pay for a premium experience.

    If someone identifies very strongly with Apple, a large American corporation, they may perceive these market share numbers to be very threatening to them. Hence their use of the word 'attack' in the post above, and pretty much the rest of the post too.
    - Why someone would identify so strongly with a large American company is very hard for me to say. I'd certainly like you to elaborate on that point. BTW, I am the owner of multiple Apple devices and for the most part I am happy with them. However, if someone tells me Apple are losing market share, it doesn't bother me, so I find it hard to understand the anger I see on these forums.
    This is an odd bit of questioning from you, but I'll try to offer clarity...I don't care about defending Apple as Apple has no need for me, an individual Apple user and happy customer, to defend them...their products and level of customer support do it just fine for them. Where I like to step in is when dealing with a person not unlike yourself...a person who feels froggy, and decides to register for membership in an Apple-centric community only to try and kick up dust. You're very stereotypical, and quite easy to spot...and I get enjoyment out of bickering with the likes of you, pointlessly arguing and posting long winded responses (that no doubt fall on deaf ears) simply to further my point. Trolls come in and tout marketshare as a way to minimalize Apple's success...I could care less about how that makes Apple feel...but I do like to defend the community we have here, you know...an Apple product forum.

    Do I understand now?
    It's hard for me to tell you whether you understand something. Very weird thing to ask another person...like me asking you if I'm hungry?

    Calling someone a troll is disrespectful and against forum rules. Please edit your post.
    I have a good feeling that an edit is not necessary...call it a hunch.
    08-21-2014 11:47 AM
  25. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    To put it simplyyou can't lose market share in a market you never participated in.
    kch50428, zerog46 and boeingrules like this.
    08-21-2014 12:20 PM
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