1. A895's Avatar
    Indeed. For like what, 30+ years?
    Noooo, they were doing bad in the 90s remember? Microsoft helped them out a bit. They have been doing good the whole 21st century at least so far. But that can change.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    08-17-2014 10:43 PM
  2. Beyond Fire's Avatar
    Noooo, they were doing bad in the 90s remember? Microsoft helped them out a bit. They have been doing good the whole 21st century at least so far. But that can change.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    You're right that can change, but I don't think Apple going the route of BlackBerry and offering low end devices would benefit them.
    Flow39 likes this.
    08-17-2014 10:46 PM
  3. A895's Avatar
    You're right that can change, but I don't think Apple going the route of BlackBerry and offering low end devices would benefit them.
    Of course they aren't going the route of BlackBerry but offering a low end device would benefit them, don't see how it is a negative. Unless you are the type of person who feels their device changes because variants of it are cheaper.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    08-17-2014 11:09 PM
  4. Speedygi's Avatar
    You're right that can change, but I don't think Apple going the route of BlackBerry and offering low end devices would benefit them.
    No, but adapting to the competition would.
    A895 likes this.
    08-18-2014 01:08 AM
  5. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    LOL... The Ferrari comparisons were thick for a moment.

    I think Apple has already adjusted. They already order devices in different price points, and do it in such a way that current owners don't feel like our devices are any less "premium."

    But Apple has plenty of time in my estimation. It can afford to keep the status quo for quite a while.
    08-18-2014 01:48 AM
  6. natasftw's Avatar
    That seems elitist. Wouldn't as a company goal be to maximize profit? Couldn't they do that by catering to more users? Or is the luxury image something that you don't want them to lose?

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    Couldn't and wouldn't aren't the same thing.

    Maximizing profits doesn't necessarily equate to maximizing customers. Let's use two hypothetical devices to explain this to you. The higher end product makes $2 of profit per unit. The lower end makes $1 of profit per unit. It would take twice as many users to have the same profit.

    If you're concerned with profit percentages, keep in mind the absolute difference in cost between the low-end and the high-end components isn't that large. The real cost differences will be in R&D and production. This makes it easier to find a larger percentage with the higher end product than the cheaper product. This means it's harder to maximize profit with the cheaper device.

    You're also ignoring the concept of cannibalization. Many people choose the iPhone to enjoy or maintain their access to iOS. If there was a cheaper alternative, there is the chance Apple will lose profits on that customer as a result of offering the cheaper device.

    Generally speaking, what you ask could be right. But, it could also be wrong for a variety of reasons. It's not so much elitism as it is the rejection of willful ignorance.
    08-18-2014 02:27 AM
  7. A895's Avatar
    Couldn't and wouldn't aren't the same thing.

    Maximizing profits doesn't necessarily equate to maximizing customers. Let's use two hypothetical devices to explain this to you. The higher end product makes $2 of profit per unit. The lower end makes $1 of profit per unit. It would take twice as many users to have the same profit.

    If you're concerned with profit percentages, keep in mind the absolute difference in cost between the low-end and the high-end components isn't that large. The real cost differences will be in R&D and production. This makes it easier to find a larger percentage with the higher end product than the cheaper product. This means it's harder to maximize profit with the cheaper device.

    You're also ignoring the concept of cannibalization. Many people choose the iPhone to enjoy or maintain their access to iOS. If there was a cheaper alternative, there is the chance Apple will lose profits on that customer as a result of offering the cheaper device.

    Generally speaking, what you ask could be right. But, it could also be wrong for a variety of reasons. It's not so much elitism as it is the rejection of willful ignorance.
    No, it is not ignorance, it is plain fact there model isn't sustainable long term, high market is getting saturated. There are over 7 billion people in the world, only a little over a 1 billion have access to smart phones, you have to make a device for the next billion or else you are going be waiting for the person who already has the latest and greatest to go out and buy again soon.

    It works now, I think in maybe 5 years they will have to adjust. And at the same time, of course cheaper phones equal smaller profit margins but what company can better take that risk than Apple? I think your argument stems from and quite a few arguments stem from that you are worried about the brand getting diluted which is just what you think people view your electronics as and believe me no one will care less.

    If you have high end, you have high end iPhones to enjoy for those who want the cheaper iOS experience they can have it. Every other OS does this, yet all of sudden it hurts Apple because, reasons? Weird.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    08-18-2014 02:49 AM
  8. A895's Avatar
    LOL... The Ferrari comparisons were thick for a moment.

    I think Apple has already adjusted. They already order devices in different price points, and do it in such a way that current owners don't feel like our devices are any less "premium."

    But Apple has plenty of time in my estimation. It can afford to keep the status quo for quite a while.
    They have devices at one price range, those older devices most of that profit goes to third parties if it reaches Apple at all. And this is about expanding to less prosperous counties and making smart phones for more users instead of old phones.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    08-18-2014 02:51 AM
  9. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    You literally haven't a clue what you're talking about, and I'm laughing here reading your attempts and explaining how your stance is some how the better path. Please just stop...LOL!

    The fact that you isolate and label the idea of brand degradation as "elitist" speaks worlds to your simple (and skewed) view of the business. The fact that you told someone the car analogies don't work here just defines the fact that you don't really get it...they fit perfectly, but could be replaced with really ANY luxury brand analogy. You think Saks cares what kind of sales numbers Walmart churns out with clothing? In & Out cares how many burgers McDonalds is cranking out daily? Rolex cares how many watches Fossil moves at your local Macy's?

    I guess Saks should start selling $8 jeans...In & Out should start freezing patties so they can open stores in 50 states on every corner...Rolex should release a $40 model so everyone can feel special?

    I'm beginning to really understand your approach here. You're one of these "Everyone is a winner!" type personalities...the guy that supports every kid getting a 1st place trophy, regardless of performance, every person deserves cable/internet/smart phone regardless of income...and every person deserves a raise!

    Please...just stop.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    08-18-2014 03:14 AM
  10. A895's Avatar
    You literally haven't a clue what you're talking about, and I'm laughing here reading your attempts and explaining how your stance is some how the better path. Please just stop...LOL!

    The fact that you isolate and label the idea of brand degradation as "elitist" speaks worlds to your simple (and skewed) view of the business. The fact that you told someone the car analogies don't work here just defines the fact that you don't really get it...they fit perfectly, but could be replaced with really ANY luxury brand analogy. You think Saks cares what kind of sales numbers Walmart churns out with clothing? In & Out cares how many burgers McDonalds is cranking out daily? Rolex cares how many watches Fossil moves at your local Macy's?

    I guess Saks should start selling $8 jeans...In & Out should start freezing patties so they can open stores in 50 states on every corner...Rolex should release a $40 model so everyone can feel special?

    I'm beginning to really understand your approach here. You're one of these "Everyone is a winner!" type personalities...the guy that supports every kid getting a 1st place trophy, regardless of performance, every person deserves cable/internet/smart phone regardless of income...and every person deserves a raise!

    Please...just stop.
    Actually that isn't my personality at all, what is your problem? I have no clue what brought on this tirade you have, but it is not becoming. It is just an idea, we use forums to discuss ideas and get help. I discussed an idea, but you are using my idea as an indication of my own personality, which I don't understand at all.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    cbobb123 and bsbharath1987 like this.
    08-18-2014 03:30 AM
  11. cbobb123's Avatar
    TBH Apple could make the iPhone 6 for the high end market and then actually get the 6c right and make it for the low end market because the 5c was still pretty expensive. It's not that hard to do if you think about it...
    08-18-2014 05:49 AM
  12. A895's Avatar
    TBH Apple could make the iPhone 6 for the high end market and then actually get the 6c right and make it for the low end market because the 5c was still pretty expensive. It's not that hard to do if you think about it...
    I agree with you. Also, whatever happened to that lower cost 8GB iPhone 5C? Never heard a thing about since it's release.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    cbobb123 likes this.
    08-18-2014 07:57 AM
  13. kch50428's Avatar
    I have no clue why you feel so strongly about this.
    What about you? You seem like you're on a religious crusade to turn Apple into a Samsung clone. They presently don't compete for the low end of the market. That's not going to change any time soon no matter how much you pine for it.
    08-18-2014 09:36 AM
  14. A895's Avatar
    What about you? You seem like you're on a religious crusade to turn Apple into a Samsung clone. They presently don't compete for the low end of the market. That's not going to change any time soon no matter how much you pine for it.
    All I had was an idea, and as a forum we share ideas and discuss them. I never suggest Apple be like Samsung, I am saying they can expand into more markets. I didn't pine for ANYTHING, I had an idea. If you don't like that is fine, but it seems everyone here is just trying to shoot down my idea and suggestions like they are the worst thing ever, whatever I'm leaving.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    cbobb123 likes this.
    08-18-2014 10:00 AM
  15. kch50428's Avatar
    All I had was an idea, and as a forum we share ideas and discuss them. I never suggest Apple be like Samsung, I am saying they can expand into more markets. I didn't pine for ANYTHING, I had an idea. If you don't like that is fine, but it seems everyone here is just trying to shoot down my idea and suggestions like they are the worst thing ever, whatever I'm leaving.
    You clamor for Apple to serve the low end of the market, are presented with ample evidence as to why they don't... You're met with contrary opinion to yours, and you run away from the "discussion" you claim to want... Oh well...
    08-18-2014 10:27 AM
  16. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    No, it is not ignorance, it is plain fact there model isn't sustainable long term,
    Explain.
    high market is getting saturated.
    Okay, but you're not taking into account customer loyalty. There are some people who will only buy Apple, Samsung, HTC, Blackberry, or Windows mobile, etcetera. Saturation won't have any effect on that.
    There are over 7 billion people in the world, only a little over a 1 billion have access to smart phones, you have to make a device for the next billion or else you are going be waiting for the person who already has the latest and greatest to go out and buy again soon.
    You're assuming that 7 billion people own a smartphone when that is not the case. You're also assuming that all of those people will want an iPhone, and that, too, is not the case.

    It works now, I think in maybe 5 years they will have to adjust. And at the same time, of course cheaper phones equal smaller profit margins but what company can better take that risk than Apple?
    Just because they can does not mean they should.
    I think your argument stems from and quite a few arguments stem from that you are worried about the brand getting diluted which is just what you think people view your electronics as and believe me no one will care less.
    Okay

    If you have high end, you have high end iPhones to enjoy for those who want the cheaper iOS experience they can have it. Every other OS does this, yet all of sudden it hurts Apple because, reasons? Weird.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    Some people do not want to accept that Apple products are considered "high end", "top quality", etcetera. Whether they like it or not, that image has served and continues to serve Apple well. It is one of the things that separate them from its competitors. That's a good thing. Apple is one of the most profitable companies on the planet and has been for a while now. Some even claim that Apple has "too much money", yet, still offer suggestions on how it can "maximize" it profits by offering low end devices. Apple's target market is intact and increasing as-is.
    kch50428 likes this.
    08-18-2014 10:51 AM
  17. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Actually that isn't my personality at all, what is your problem? I have no clue what brought on this tirade you have, but it is not becoming. It is just an idea, we use forums to discuss ideas and get help. I discussed an idea, but you are using my idea as an indication of my own personality, which I don't understand at all.

    Posted via the iMore App for Android
    You want to know what my problem is? You strolling into my thread trying to make it seem like anyone who defends the idea that Apple is serving the market just as they desire by maintaining the brand identity that made them what they are today and telling me (and anyone else that said it) that we are wrong and that Apple needs to venture into the entry level world to retain relevance.

    You know why I have a problem with you telling me this? Because you're NOT just sharing an idea...you're critically moving that existing fact is wrong, and that your "idea" is some kind of accurate layout of the future...when in reality, you have an opinion on the matter that is about as legitimate as viewing into a magic 8 ball and asking "Should Apple start making entry level products?"

    My problem further reflects the idea that the spectrum of consumer deserves to have the ability to buy what I enjoy...I mean really? I enjoy Apple products for a multitude of reasons, most of which revolve around their usability in my day to day activities and world. A part of it, though, reflects the feeling that I am getting an upper epsilon product...one that stands out as a better built, feature rich and less "cookie cutter" generic product. I don't want to see this company selling iPhone's that are lesser built/developed/spec'ed for the sake of making sure every Tom, **** and Harry can afford one, even if they're ability resides in a more budget friendly platform. Android handles this...they do it well...yet for some reason you feel that Apple should venture into this consumer environment, with a disregard for Apple's product image, simply because you feel there's more MONEY to be had there.

    If every company that followed a similar business model as Apple thought what you said was the optimal route...we'd end up with like a handful of companies on the planet in the end TOTAL...conglomerate companies that care little about image, quality or customer experience, and focus on MONEY. Thank GOD there are companies in the world that find that approach juvenile, boring and unworthy...and thankfully Apple is one of them.

    That is my problem with your posts here (and it's not just you, you share the stage with a few more too). You don't understand why I'm attacking your ideas because you don't understand why they sound so asinine. You just don't understand...but you represent your words like we don't understand.
    Flow39 and Just_Me_D like this.
    08-18-2014 12:23 PM
  18. cbobb123's Avatar
    Why does it seem like many who disagree with Apple can't do so without getting emotional and throwing out hyperboles? If everyone didn't bash down someone's idea about how Apple can improve and pretend the can do no wrong, this place would be much calmer. After all, if Apple is really causing that much emotional strife in someone's life, they should cut Apple out of their lives.
    Smply_Rcklss likes this.
    08-18-2014 12:42 PM
  19. Flow39's Avatar
    disregard for Apple's product image, simply because you feel there's more MONEY to be had there.

    If every company that followed a similar business model as Apple thought what you said was the optimal route...we'd end up with like a handful of companies on the planet in the end TOTAL...conglomerate companies that care little about image, quality or customer experience, and focus on MONEY.
    Even Steve Jobs said something related to this. He said something along the lines of if you're in it for the money, your product won't succeed. You have to want to produce the best products, which will then lead to money, not the other way around.
    08-18-2014 01:04 PM
  20. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Why does it seem like many who disagree with Apple can't do so without getting emotional and throwing out hyperboles? If everyone didn't bash down someone's idea about how Apple can improve and pretend the can do no wrong, this place would be much calmer. After all, if Apple is really causing that much emotional strife in someone's life, they should cut Apple out of their lives.
    Look out guys! We have a heavy weight here! I'm still waiting for someone to show me where anyone in the history of this website/forum has ever said Apple can do no wrong. It seems to evade every person who presents it as being a problem...and can't show where it was actually done.
    08-18-2014 01:14 PM
  21. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Why does it seem like many who disagree with Apple can't do so without getting emotional and throwing out hyperboles? If everyone didn't bash down someone's idea about how Apple can improve and pretend the can do no wrong, this place would be much calmer. After all, if Apple is really causing that much emotional strife in someone's life, they should cut Apple out of their lives.
    Let me summarize the replies. Ideas, opinions and even disagreeing views are welcomed here at iMore. Having said that, don't expect your idea, opinion or disagreement to go unchallenged if it does not make sense, is presented as fact or you yourself get offended when it is debunked.
    08-18-2014 01:22 PM
  22. Derrick4Real's Avatar
    This is common knowledge. It's obvious that Android sells lots of phones because they are cheaper and more affordable. I know tons of people that don't visit blogs about phones and buy a phone that's affordable. Not to mention they have a ton more form factor and feature options. Most people in my family have had multiple android phones. Many come free. Only two people in my family (8 people) have had an iphone. Of course they sell more phones.

    As for should Apple be worried? It's a competitor. It be foolish to not have concern. Microsoft controlled the pc market for decades by offering a cheaper solution by licensing their software. Android is doing the same. I should be a concern. But there is a big difference in that once when a company chooses Windows platform for PC you can't just easily and cheaply change because you have to rebuy all the software and retrain a workforce. Also if you rely on PC only software you can't switch everybody. Phones, people aren't as locked into the the app software on the device. If you want twitter you can find a similar twitter app on all platforms. So i don't think it's entirely analogous. But If you're ever losing marketshare globally a company should be paying attention.
    cbobb123 likes this.
    08-18-2014 03:03 PM
  23. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    This is common knowledge. It's obvious that Android sells lots of phones because they are cheaper and more affordable. I know tons of people that don't visit blogs about phones and buy a phone that's affordable. Not to mention they have a ton more form factor and feature options. Most people in my family have had multiple android phones. Many come free. Only two people in my family (8 people) have had an iphone. Of course they sell more phones.

    As for should Apple be worried? It's a competitor. It be foolish to not have concern. Microsoft controlled the pc market for decades by offering a cheaper solution by licensing their software. Android is doing the same. I should be a concern. But there is a big difference in that once when a company chooses Windows platform for PC you can't just easily and cheaply change because you have to rebuy all the software and retrain a workforce. Also if you rely on PC only software you can't switch everybody. Phones, people aren't as locked into the the app software on the device. If you want twitter you can find a similar twitter app on all platforms. So i don't think it's entirely analogous. But If you're ever losing marketshare globally a company should be paying attention.
    Can't disagree with this.
    08-18-2014 03:06 PM
  24. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    This is common knowledge. It's obvious that Android sells lots of phones because they are cheaper and more affordable. I know tons of people that don't visit blogs about phones and buy a phone that's affordable. Not to mention they have a ton more form factor and feature options. Most people in my family have had multiple android phones. Many come free. Only two people in my family (8 people) have had an iphone. Of course they sell more phones.

    As for should Apple be worried? It's a competitor. It be foolish to not have concern. Microsoft controlled the pc market for decades by offering a cheaper solution by licensing their software. Android is doing the same. I should be a concern. But there is a big difference in that once when a company chooses Windows platform for PC you can't just easily and cheaply change because you have to rebuy all the software and retrain a workforce. Also if you rely on PC only software you can't switch everybody. Phones, people aren't as locked into the the app software on the device. If you want twitter you can find a similar twitter app on all platforms. So i don't think it's entirely analogous. But If you're ever losing marketshare globally a company should be paying attention.
    Except once again you can't lose something you never have (or more appropriately, never participated in). Apple doesn't venture into the entry level market, where Android thrives and where google makes MOST of it's money off the OS. It's like trying to say that Tesla should be concerned with the marketshare GM has on the compact car market. It simply isn't relevant. I know tons of people who buy compact cars, what difference does it make? None.

    Your Microsoft analogy doesn't work because Microsoft WAS/IS the general spectrum PC maker...in fact, in terms of this discussion, its pretty much the opposite, and would speak more towards Samsung's potential concerns about Apple's movement in the market. Microsoft commanded the market of PC's across the spectrum, until someone came in and brought a luxury line of PC's that took over that consumer base. The same is true with the iPhone and Apple, only they have maintained that dominance since the first true breath of smart phones.
    08-18-2014 04:47 PM
  25. Speedygi's Avatar
    Except once again you can't lose something you never have (or more appropriately, never participated in). Apple doesn't venture into the entry level market, where Android thrives and where google makes MOST of it's money off the OS. It's like trying to say that Tesla should be concerned with the marketshare GM has on the compact car market. It simply isn't relevant. I know tons of people who buy compact cars, what difference does it make? None.

    Your Microsoft analogy doesn't work because Microsoft WAS/IS the general spectrum PC maker...in fact, in terms of this discussion, its pretty much the opposite, and would speak more towards Samsung's potential concerns about Apple's movement in the market. Microsoft commanded the market of PC's across the spectrum, until someone came in and brought a luxury line of PC's that took over that consumer base. The same is true with the iPhone and Apple, only they have maintained that dominance since the first true breath of smart phones.
    Android has its presence on "high end devices" since the beginning too, it's not like it's always entry level all the way, and some of these devices, in some ways, even has the same or higher level of production levels that Apple has put into its devices. Motorola has had seen rising marketshare and profits, while offering a more diverse Phone range, and no one ever accuses Motorola of being cheap. I don't see how Apple can't do the same.

    Unless most of the fans disagree, of course.
    08-18-2014 05:26 PM
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