1. Premium1's Avatar
    The One-Horse Race: 85% Of The 300M Smartphones Shipped In Q2 Were Android | TechCrunch

    Now are they truly doomed this time? I think it's worth some discussion either way.
    I think apple is going to be content having lower marketshare like with their mac line. They never set out to be #1 in marketshare, and that would be nearly impossible with how many choices there is for android, and the low end market, which apple all but avoids anyway.
    the_tech_eater likes this.
    08-01-2014 08:14 PM
  2. Premium1's Avatar
    We disagree, Let's check back after the launch of the iPhone 6, Apples q1 numbers are usually released last week of January.

    I maintain that the iPhone 6 will be disastrous to both android and their vendors, especially Samsung, and by extension microsoft; microsoft gets payed a royalty on every handset sold, I believe it's double for Samsung between 15-18 dollars per device.
    Remember when that was said when the iPhone launched on verizon, and then again when the 5 launched with larger screen? The iPhone will sell lots, but it is not going to cause a huge mass exodus all of the sudden from android or another platform to IOS. Most users by now are entrenched in one ecosystem and they stay with that ecosystem. I think the iPhone 6 will boost apples market share, but nothing groundbreaking.
    08-01-2014 08:18 PM
  3. Speedygi's Avatar
    The iPhone 6 would never boost long-term prospects for market growth, because it's not meant to be. It is a product category already existing within the world with Android phones that are, as statistics state, already dominating that market. Google, on the other hand, has the real long term prospects with their operating system being open sourced.

    Apple needs marketshare not short term profitability...But they can't get the marketshare, and in fact is losing marketshare. IPhone 6 wouldn't be able to reverse that trend, not by a substantial amount anyways.

    However iTunes would be Apple's trump card, their only gateway to long term profitability... But even people aren't switching over to iPhone just for iTunes... It just hasn't reached that kind of level yet.

    Plus most of the profits gained by Apple over the last quarter are mostly people buying multiple phones or buying them to sell to the secondary markets, or upgrades, which wouldn't gain marketshare. Yes they are earning the profits but Apple isn't gaining new customers, and especially in China and developing markets.
    08-01-2014 09:41 PM
  4. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    The iPhone 6 would never boost long-term prospects for market growth, because it's not meant to be. It is a product category already existing within the world with Android phones that are, as statistics state, already dominating that market. Google, on the other hand, has the real long term prospects with their operating system being open sourced.

    Apple needs marketshare not short term profitability...But they can't get the marketshare, and in fact is losing marketshare. IPhone 6 wouldn't be able to reverse that trend, not by a substantial amount anyways.

    However iTunes would be Apple's trump card, their only gateway to long term profitability... But even people aren't switching over to iPhone just for iTunes... It just hasn't reached that kind of level yet.

    Plus most of the profits gained by Apple over the last quarter are mostly people buying multiple phones or buying them to sell to the secondary markets, or upgrades, which wouldn't gain marketshare. Yes they are earning the profits but Apple isn't gaining new customers, and especially in China and developing markets.
    Sources please! You made a lot of claims, I'd like to see some evidence.
    08-01-2014 09:55 PM
  5. Speedygi's Avatar
    Sources please! You made a lot of claims, I'd like to see some evidence.
    Do the math, Apple is losing marketshare while gaining profits. Who are buying these Apple devices, not new customers, that's for sure. Or else Marketshare would Rise...
    08-01-2014 10:02 PM
  6. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    Do the math, Apple is losing marketshare while gaining profits. Who are buying these Apple devices, not new customers, that's for sure. Or else Marketshare would Rise...
    Even if it was people buying more than one device, or people buying them to resell, they would still count as market share. Also, have you looked at web usage shares? iOS is equal to, or slightly less than androids wen usage share. So if android has such a huge market share, but iOS is has the same web usage, what does that say?
    08-01-2014 10:05 PM
  7. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    Do the math, Apple is losing marketshare while gaining profits. Who are buying these Apple devices, not new customers, that's for sure. Or else Marketshare would Rise...
    Also remember that android OMEs report sell ins, apple reports sell through.
    FFR and qbnkelt like this.
    08-01-2014 10:09 PM
  8. Speedygi's Avatar
    Even if it was people buying more than one device, or people buying them to resell, they would still count as market share. Also, have you looked at web usage shares? iOS is equal to, or slightly less than androids wen usage share. So if android has such a huge market share, but iOS is has the same web usage, what does that say?
    Marketshare is unique subscribers, dude... Which means Apple isn't expanding in emerging markets as fast as Android.

    People using iOS are more likely to use the Web, but that's nothing new.
    08-01-2014 10:13 PM
  9. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    Marketshare is unique subscribers, dude... Which means Apple isn't expanding in emerging markets as fast as Android.

    People using iOS are more likely to use the Web, but that's nothing new.
    We know apple isn't expanding in new areas like android is. But the web usage numbers show what those millions of android users are using their phones for--not much.
    08-01-2014 10:14 PM
  10. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    Marketshare is unique subscribers, dude... Which means Apple isn't expanding in emerging markets as fast as Android.

    People using iOS are more likely to use the Web, but that's nothing new.
    Also, a CEO, and the board measure their performance by the money. I just leaned that in my economics class today. So..... In Apple's leaderships' eyes, and the eyes of any one who thinks economically, Apple COULD NOT BE DOING ANY BETTER. Business never has, and likely never will be about market share. It's about money. And in apples case they also are about making a great experience. They are doing 100% at both.
    08-01-2014 10:18 PM
  11. Speedygi's Avatar
    Also, a CEO, and the board measure their performance by the money. I just leaned that in my economics class today. So..... In Apple's leaderships' eyes, and the eyes of any one who thinks economically, Apple COULD NOT BE DOING ANY BETTER. Business never has, and likely never will be about market share. It's about money. And in apples case they also are about making a great experience. They are doing 100% at both.
    A great CEO sees opportunity for growth too, and yes, Apple does excel in refining new product categories but that's only going to be their only strong suit, but they are never going to be anything but a niche player in any given market...

    And I think we should just accept that as a plus for Apple.
    08-01-2014 10:20 PM
  12. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    A great CEO sees opportunity for growth too, and yes, Apple does excel in refining new product categories but that's only going to be their only strong suit, but they are never going to be anything but a niche player in any given market...

    And I think we should just accept that as a plus for Apple.
    And that's what they want to be! Steve and Tim said and say repeatedly that they aren't about spamming the market like other companies. They've always been content to be a niche player. And why don't we talk about googles latest earnings report.... I think some google managers would kill to have apples latest earnings report!
    08-01-2014 10:23 PM
  13. pappy53's Avatar
    Also remember that android OMEs report sell ins, apple reports sell through.
    They both base numbers on units shipped.
    08-01-2014 10:27 PM
  14. pappy53's Avatar
    The iPhone 6 would never boost long-term prospects for market growth, because it's not meant to be. It is a product category already existing within the world with Android phones that are, as statistics state, already dominating that market. Google, on the other hand, has the real long term prospects with their operating system being open sourced.

    Apple needs marketshare not short term profitability...But they can't get the marketshare, and in fact is losing marketshare. IPhone 6 wouldn't be able to reverse that trend, not by a substantial amount anyways.

    However iTunes would be Apple's trump card, their only gateway to long term profitability... But even people aren't switching over to iPhone just for iTunes... It just hasn't reached that kind of level yet.

    Plus most of the profits gained by Apple over the last quarter are mostly people buying multiple phones or buying them to sell to the secondary markets, or upgrades, which wouldn't gain marketshare. Yes they are earning the profits but Apple isn't gaining new customers, and especially in China and developing markets.
    From a Verge article:

    "As for iOS, Apple said it has sold over 800 million iOS devices — 100 million iPod touches, 200 million iPads, and over 500 million iPhones. That's up from 700 million iOS devices shipped at the end of September 2013. Cook also said that 130 million of those users were new to Apple in the last year. And since iOS 7 launched last September, more than 97 percent of users have upgraded to the latest OS."


    Apple has sold more than 800 million iOS devices, 130 million new iOS users in the last year | The Verge
    FFR likes this.
    08-01-2014 10:34 PM
  15. FFR's Avatar
    They both base numbers on units shipped.
    Yes but when those units are not bought, carriers can actually return the product, just look at blackberry, with all their write downs.

    Samsung just announced it is sitting on a bunch of unsold inventory.

    There is a huge difference between sell in and sell through.
    08-02-2014 02:56 AM
  16. FFR's Avatar
    Remember when that was said when the iPhone launched on verizon, and then again when the 5 launched with larger screen? The iPhone will sell lots, but it is not going to cause a huge mass exodus all of the sudden from android or another platform to IOS. Most users by now are entrenched in one ecosystem and they stay with that ecosystem. I think the iPhone 6 will boost apples market share, but nothing groundbreaking.
    Then we disagree; as qb put it it's not personal.

    The iPhone launch on Verizon, decimated the droid vendors, remember droid. Motorola, htc, Kyocera and even blackberry and palm, all now are dying or dead.
    The iPhone 5 and 5s steamrolled over the competition; nokia, NEC, toshiba, Panasonic, Sony, again all dead or dying.

    Who is left?
    Samsung, they are down 7.4% vs apple's 1.5% "perceived" decline in marketshare. So according to a lot of people the sky is falling for Samsung as well, I mean 7.4% decline is larger than 1.5% decline?

    *Perceived decline: because apple actually increased units shipped by 4 million iPhones yoy vs Samsung's actual decline in units shipped.




    How can that happen?
    Easily, by skewing results:
    the_tech_eater likes this.
    08-02-2014 03:50 AM
  17. FFR's Avatar
    A great CEO sees opportunity for growth too, and yes, Apple does excel in refining new product categories but that's only going to be their only strong suit, but they are never going to be anything but a niche player in any given market...

    And I think we should just accept that as a plus for Apple.
    Really speedy?
    The iPod was a niche?
    The iPad?
    the iPhone?

    What's exactly is you definition of a niche?

    As someone earlier said: Apple has nearly 800 million iTunes accounts, do you consider that number to be niche?

    Just for some perspective, In June of 2013, iTunes had about 575 million accounts. That's a growth rate of 40% in ONE year, yup new users.

    Now let's look at Google stats Gmail users were around 500 million, Google drive userrs : 120 million,

    Here are some more facts about what you consider niche speedy:

    -If the iPhone were a company in its own right, it would be bigger than McDonalds and Coca Cola combined.

    -The iPad generated more revenue last quarter than Facebook, Twitter, Yahoo, Groupon, and Tesla combined.

    -Apples sales from hardware accessories is larger than Chipotles revenue.

    -Apples iTunes, software, and services businesses are bigger than eBay.

    -While sales of the old iPod line may be shrinking, its still 77% larger than Twitter.

    ROFLMAO @ niche; Apple owns the market, that's anything but niche.
    Last edited by FFR; 08-02-2014 at 05:16 AM.
    the_tech_eater and Les74 like this.
    08-02-2014 04:11 AM
  18. Premium1's Avatar
    Then we disagree; as qb put it it's not personal.

    The iPhone launch on Verizon, decimated the droid vendors, remember droid. Motorola, htc, Kyocera and even blackberry and palm, all now are dying or dead.
    The iPhone 5 and 5s steamrolled over the competition; nokia, NEC, toshiba, Panasonic, Sony, again all dead or dying.

    Who is left?
    Samsung, they are down 7.4% vs apple's 1.5% "perceived" decline in marketshare. So according to a lot of people the sky is falling for Samsung as well, I mean 7.4% decline is larger than 1.5% decline?

    *Perceived decline: because apple actually increased units shipped by 4 million iPhones yoy vs Samsung's actual decline in units shipped.

    http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/02/be3u7u8e.jpg


    How can that happen?
    Easily, by skewing results:
    http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/02/ta8a2uze.jpg
    Not personal at all. But Kyocera was never huge to start and yes Samsung is down but Htc, lg, and other small OEMs are up.
    08-02-2014 06:11 AM
  19. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    Not personal at all. But Kyocera was never huge to start and yes Samsung is down but Htc, lg, and other small OEMs are up.
    Htc and lg are both tiny compared to apple and Samsung.
    FFR likes this.
    08-02-2014 06:34 AM
  20. Speedygi's Avatar
    I'm just saying that in the context of the global marketshare context, iPhone is a niche, and that is due to the dominance of Android, which was bolstered by the rise of Chinese manufacturers in the global smartphone market.

    I'm just saying that was what happened and it wasn't wrong to call the iPhone a niche product in terms of smartphone marketshare.

    I have no doubts about the iPhone's influence but in the global context it's not the majority marketshare.

    Yes, Apple will keep making profits but it's never going to be number one manufacturer in the smartphone race.
    08-02-2014 06:48 AM
  21. FFR's Avatar
    Not personal at all. But Kyocera was never huge to start and yes Samsung is down but Htc, lg, and other small OEMs are up.
    Kyocera was huge in the cdma market, and by extension Verizon, sprint, and any mvnos utilizing verizon or sprint as their backbone.
    However having said that, the recent proliferation of iphones at boost mobile, virgin, cricket wireless and most of the other budget wireless mvnos , it's going to be a lot more competitive for android vendors this year.

    What other small oem's?
    Sony, Asus, and acer are cratering, almost all of lg's profit came from other divisions:

    Lg:
    Air conditioning division ($159.4 million)
    TV division ($150 million)
    Home appliance ($95 million)
    Mobile phone division ($83.4 million)

    Htc : ($75 million)* rumored Microsoft payout for bastardizing the m8 with windows 8.1

    Both will not be able to sustain profits once the iphone 6 is released.

    And btw rumor has it that Microsoft paid both lg and htc 100 million dollars + each to convert their android flagships to windows 8.1; the m8 and the g3. Samsung declined due to Microsofts recent acquisition of Nokia.

    That would explain why both htc' and lg's mobile phone profits are within $8 million dollars of each other while unit shipments differed by over 10 million units; lg (14.5 million) vs (1.8- 3.7 million) *projected unit sales.


    *HTC no longer discloses unit shipments, but we know htc was averaging about 1.2 million- 2.7 million phones sell-through per quarter for for their 2013 fiscal year vs a sell-in of 5 million per quarter.

    As for Samsung they are currently being sued for reneging on royalty payments to microsoft.

    Mark my words, the end of 2014 will not look favorably towards android vendors, and the iphone 6 will be the catalyst.

    Cheers.
    Speedygi and the_tech_eater like this.
    08-02-2014 08:54 AM
  22. Premium1's Avatar
    Htc and lg are both tiny compared to apple and Samsung.
    And that means? Still doesn't change the fact that apple didn't blow android out of the water with all of these things people claimed would cause apple to shoot to the top
    08-02-2014 09:41 AM
  23. the_tech_eater's Avatar
    And that means? Still doesn't change the fact that apple didn't blow android out of the water with all of these things people claimed would cause apple to shoot to the top
    If you sell 1 million devices, and then the next quartet you sell 1.5 million, you're up 50%, but you're still a tiny company. Now, that's a hypothetical figure, but I used it to prove a point.
    08-02-2014 09:43 AM
  24. Premium1's Avatar
    If you sell 1 million devices, and then the next quartet you sell 1.5 million, you're up 50%, but you're still a tiny company. Now, that's a hypothetical figure, but I used it to prove a point.
    Tiny company or not there is only so many people to buy devices, so even only selling 1.5 million devices like in the example, that is 1.5 million less potential customers.
    08-02-2014 10:11 AM
  25. SeanHRCC's Avatar


    This marketshare vs. profit share argument is hilarious. You think Tesla sits and worries about GM's marketshare vs. Tesla's profit share? Apple doesn't have a million devices scatter shot at the market to try and make as many of them stick to the target...you know...like Samsung does. Apple sells a luxury item...and because they sell a handful of luxury items, they enjoy a substantial weight difference (and importance) vs. a company like Samsung or an OS developer like Google.

    I can't believe people are still, for some reason, worrying (or better put, broadcasting) woes about Apple and their ability to maintain relevance in the market. We might as well start talking about how many unicorns it takes to stretch a rainbow into the letter Z...it'd be just as legitimate and probably more humorous.
    Les74 likes this.
    08-03-2014 09:28 PM
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