1. Speedygi's Avatar
    Unfortunately, numbers on paper are more important than real world performance to some people...
    There's a reason why specifications drive the experience, they are the exact same hardware that does the work underneath. To separate the two is to ignore that fact...

    I won't say I don't think the experience on iOS on a 5S is lackluster. Fact is the apps are very smooth and the operating system is really smooth too. All of them that are optimized for the processor, but I'm thinking that if I am hamstrung by limitations of an OS like no true multitasking and a clunky notification system, added with certain restrictions laid down by Apple in not allowing certain apps that could increase the mobile computing experience like bittorrent, or a file system manager, all this power only serves to be only useless because of the limitations.

    Android, however, does more with the OS with better specs. The optimizations are actually incremental in real world ways unbridled by software limitations.
    Last edited by Speedygi; 01-03-2014 at 01:11 AM.
    01-03-2014 12:57 AM
  2. mulasien's Avatar
    There's a reason why specifications drive the experience, they are the exact same hardware that does the work underneath. To separate the two is to ignore that fact...

    I won't say I don't think the experience on iOS on a 5S is lackluster. Fact is the apps are very smooth and the operating system is really smooth too. All of them that are optimized for the processor, but I'm thinking that if I am hamstrung by limitations of an OS like no true multitasking and a clunky notification system, added with certain restrictions laid down by Apple in not allowing certain apps that could increase the mobile computing experience like bittorrent, or a file system manager, all this power only serves to be only useless because of the limitations.

    Android, however, does more with the OS with better specs. The optimizations are actually incremental in real world ways unbridled by software limitations.
    Now you sound like you're reading from the same overused script that's parroted on every Android fan forum. That's not what this thread or your and Sean's points were even about, and you're going on tangents now to try to salvage your point.

    You stated that Apple is falling behind in speed compared to Android handsets. I countered that every benchmark and real world test objectively (with no room for ambiguitity) showed that the 5S is leagues ahead in performance compared to anything else out there. What that has to do with "well, Apple locks down their OS and you can't do as much with it as the more customizable Android!", I have no idea. Sounds like a cop out for an inefficient OS (which it is).

    Spare me the "you can do more with Android" line. I was neck deep in their ecosystem and a huge fan of it for several years. I'm just as aware as what you can and cannot do with it as you are. And I'm just as productive using Apple's 'restricted' OS as I was being able to put a bunch of widget toggles on my Android home screen in order to try to conserve battery life on it's inefficient OS. Funny how I don't have to do that now.
    Last edited by mulasien; 01-03-2014 at 04:02 PM.
    mikeo007 likes this.
    01-03-2014 09:26 AM
  3. mulasien's Avatar
    I'm suddenly inspired to expound on this point more...

    If you'd have to hazard a guess, how many people do you think shop for mobile devices on the basis of whether or not they can run bittorrent (for pirating movies, admit it) or file managers, have apps they're not using running in the background while unnecessarily eating their battery, and having to reply to a message so quickly and at that very instant that they can't wait to look at it until after they're done using their app as the basis of their purchase? How many of those people place features like that over a superior user experience, long lasting support, or an OS that just flat works better, and will be updated for at least a few years?

    Outside of die hards on tech forums, I cannot think of a single person who actually thinks those things are remotely important. For the .01% of those who do have these niche requirements, well I guess you'll be happier with Android.

    I will confess that having a local file storage app (don't need a full system file manager) would be nice and I miss it somewhat, however not at the expense of an overall degraded user experience in day to day usage (which I refer to as 'death by a thousand cuts', it's why I'm a FORMER Android fan). And I consider myself a power user, can't think of many people in the mass market who care about that either. And even when I was on Android 4.2 (through using CyanogenMod 10.1, since my phone never got timely updates), I might have used the ability to reply to a text within the notification app once. It's a nice perk, but again, not at the expense of everything you have to give up in the process.
    01-03-2014 04:17 PM
  4. dc9super80's Avatar
    Firstly why is the Galaxy S4 too big for your liking? And secondly I feel Apple should focus on making faster phones instead of bothering with making the phones bigger. Very soon they may lag behind Android too much in terms of speed to be competitive...

    I'm not saying that size isn't important, I really do feel that is a secondary concern right now. More RAM, a better mobile computing-centric focus and a faster processor. Apple has done well to introduce 64bit but they need to step up a little greater than that.
    The 5s is practically the fastest phone on the market, (talking about benchmarks) running on the most optimized platform, I truly Dont understand what you are taking about.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
    01-03-2014 09:09 PM
  5. Premium1's Avatar
    Obviously there is no details here about a new iPhone, so any of you wanting "proof" will just have to understand that my comment is really just theoretical based on what I'm reading and deducing from this article and quotes from Tim Cook.

    Tim Cook Talks Big; Apple May Launch 12.9-inch iPad in 2014 as Part of Company's Big Plan : Tech : Latin Post

    ...it would seem that this "BIG" representation will be reflective of larger devices from Apple in 2014, and if they're going to increase the size of the iPad (perhaps even venturing into the tablet/notebook hybrid market with such), I would say that is the best evidence we've been offered over the years that the iPhone will also be seeing a size increase this coming year.

    Is it something I want? Personally, as long as it's smaller than the Galaxy S 4, I'm fine with that. To me, I think the market is now officially moving to a more commanding demand of a larger screen, and with the new features we'll see with the iPhone, I think they're going to have to just accept that the chassis is going to have to grow a bit (though knowing Apple, they'll figure out a way to factor in a larger iPhone design without adding weight or width to it).

    For those of you clamoring for a bigger iPhone screen, this might be the best news yet for you, and to me, the most promising bit of literature from Apple that would indicate a movement towards such.
    Many of the apple lovers will cry no to a larger screen until apple unveils it for the next iPhone and then they will be amazed at how they went so long with a smaller screened device. People want larger screened devices and apple does not want to let the craze go on to long without hopping on board. I know there are people who won't get an iPhone because of the smaller screen size and this could be the way apple gains some of those customers back over.
    01-03-2014 10:43 PM
  6. wolfedude88's Avatar
    I know my wife is one who won't use a iphone because she likes having a bigger phone, I think she might try one if or when a bigger iphone is released.

    I myself will probably be satisfied completely when a bigger iphone is released. It is the only thing that makes me not 100% happy with an iPhone.

    Don't get me wrong I still love stock android but I prefer the way I have my apps setup on iOS.
    01-03-2014 10:47 PM
  7. mulasien's Avatar
    Many of the apple lovers will cry no to a larger screen until apple unveils it for the next iPhone and then they will be amazed at how they went so long with a smaller screened device. People want larger screened devices and apple does not want to let the craze go on to long without hopping on board. I know there are people who won't get an iPhone because of the smaller screen size and this could be the way apple gains some of those customers back over.
    I think there's an important distinction to make here:

    I would love to have a larger screen.

    I do NOT want a physically larger (especially wider) phone.

    If Apple can increase the screen size by shrinking the bezels and keeping roughly the same width, then that would be great. I used to mock the whole argument that iPhones are sized for optimal one-handed operation until I got one and found out myself. I used to have a 4.3" Galaxy SII that was substantially more unwieldy to operate one handed than my iPhone, especially when making sure you have a confident grip when talking on the phone. Going from a wider device back to an iPhone, one can definitely tell the difference.

    Of course, if they also make a phablet sized device in addition to the 'classic' sized model for those who love phablets, then all the better.
    01-04-2014 03:59 PM
  8. Speedygi's Avatar
    The 5s is practically the fastest phone on the market, (talking about benchmarks) running on the most optimized platform, I truly Dont understand what you are taking about.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
    What are these benchmarks I keep hearing about?
    01-06-2014 07:12 AM
  9. dc9super80's Avatar
    What are these benchmarks I keep hearing about?
    Check Anandtech's website and stop playing the fool. I am sure you know very well that the iPhone 5s is very strong performer. True the processor is more geared to their plans for the future and its the beginning of a transition, but it performs exceptionally well.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
    01-06-2014 07:45 AM
  10. dc9super80's Avatar
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/t...ne-5s-review/5

    Here you go anyhow.




    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
    01-06-2014 07:47 AM
  11. Speedygi's Avatar
    AnandTech | The iPhone 5s Review

    Here you go anyhow.




    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
    Alright, I will concede that the processor is amongst the best, but with software like iOS...I will say I would rather see a better operating system sooner than a bigger screen.
    01-06-2014 10:07 AM
  12. mulasien's Avatar
    Alright, I will concede that the processor is amongst the best, but with software like iOS...I will say I would rather see a better operating system sooner than a bigger screen.
    Your idea of 'better' is very different from mine.

    It's already the fastest, most efficient, least lag free and most stable mobile OS in existence with the most developer support and the least headaches compared to anything else out there.

    The only thing it cannot do is run on a bajillion different phones and run multiple applications in the background (all of which eat battery) at the same time. Oh, and put a bunch of widgets on your screen.

    If those features are requirements that you cannot live without, then go back to androidcentral.com, because this isn't the phone for you and nothing I or anyone else says will be able to make you happy. Unless that is, this is just a veiled "Android is better because you can this this, this, this, and this that you can't do on iOS" thread, which is already quite played out. Really, we don't care.

    You can either keep complaining that iOS doesn't have all of the features that you want, or go to a phone that has those features you want. I'm frankly tired of "Apple phones suck because they're so limited" arguments. I really don't care anymore. This phone will not make you happy if that's what you care about. Go get an Android phone with the features that you want (I recommend the Moto X or the Nexus 5). You have my blessing.
    01-06-2014 11:35 AM
  13. dc9super80's Avatar
    Alright, I will concede that the processor is amongst the best, but with software like iOS...I will say I would rather see a better operating system sooner than a bigger screen.
    iOS has one of the best, capable and most stable frameworks of all mobile OSs. It has an arguably better framework than Android. But I see what you are trying to so and Italy be better said that Apple should open it up so that more can be done with it.

    That said, where we would see the 64 bit Architecture play it's game is with what devs would do with it. This years WWDC will be very interesting.

    After all, iOS is what it is mostly because what devs have been able to do. More focus on the apps than the OS.


    Tapatalking from my dependable 64GB iPhone 5
    01-06-2014 11:52 AM
  14. Speedygi's Avatar
    Your idea of 'better' is very different from mine.

    It's already the fastest, most efficient, least lag free and most stable mobile OS in existence with the most developer support and the least headaches compared to anything else out there.

    The only thing it cannot do is run on a bajillion different phones and run multiple applications in the background (all of which eat battery) at the same time. Oh, and put a bunch of widgets on your screen.

    If those features are requirements that you cannot live without, then go back to androidcentral.com, because this isn't the phone for you and nothing I or anyone else says will be able to make you happy. Unless that is, this is just a veiled "Android is better because you can this this, this, this, and this that you can't do on iOS" thread, which is already quite played out. Really, we don't care.

    You can either keep complaining that iOS doesn't have all of the features that you want, or go to a phone that has those features you want. I'm frankly tired of "Apple phones suck because they're so limited" arguments. I really don't care anymore. This phone will not make you happy if that's what you care about. Go get an Android phone with the features that you want (I recommend the Moto X or the Nexus 5). You have my blessing.
    Just name off the number of things an iPhone can do out of the box and then compare it to a Nexus 5...and consider the price to feature ratio of the iPhone compared to the top Android phones, and then tell me it it's not limited?

    If an iPhone is efficient and lag free to you, then great. It is, however, not the best phone out there regardless of how much the horse has been beaten. It runs the best on benchmarks, fine, have your benchmarks..guess what, optimized software runs better on the hardware it is optimized for.

    However, I have a S4 and to me it's just far more intuitive in terms of multitasking and more powerful in terms of the things I can do on it. The framework to me is more elaborate and it has far better Google Apps available to it than on iOS. I can sideload apps on it if I need to do something I want on it that I couldn't do before. I don't see an imitation that would put me off the platform as long as I can keep using it.

    It has far more plentiful third party app integration in the OS and just in the app development apis alone. It is just architected like a desktop computer, I don't get that sense on an iPhone.
    Last edited by Speedygi; 01-06-2014 at 12:15 PM.
    01-06-2014 12:01 PM
  15. Speedygi's Avatar
    It has gone to a point where my S4 or a G2 is smooth enough that a performance difference is almost negligible. If there is an insistence to keep touting those iPhone 5s benchmarks to prove a platform's dominance, I can only say that it's really a meaningless argument at this point?
    If there is a need to keep pressing on the argument when I have already stated my points, I can only say just use whatever phone you like. That's all that really matters.

    (I use an IPad Mini, but please don't ask me to worship the makers of the beloved iPhone, I'm not ready for that level of commitment).

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Speedygi; 01-06-2014 at 12:43 PM.
    01-06-2014 12:20 PM
  16. mulasien's Avatar
    Just name off the number of things an iPhone can do out of the box and then compare it to a Nexus 5...and consider the price to feature ratio of the iPhone compared to the top Android phones, and then tell me it it's not limited?

    If an iPhone is efficient and lag free to you, then great. It is, however, not the best phone out there regardless of how much the horse has been beaten. It runs the best on benchmarks, fine, have your benchmarks..guess what, optimized software runs better on the hardware it is optimized for.

    However, I have a S4 and to me it's just far more intuitive in terms of multitasking and more powerful in terms of the things I can do on it. The framework to me is more elaborate and it has far better Google Apps available to it than on iOS. I can sideload apps on it if I need to do something I want on it that I couldn't do before. I don't see an imitation that would put me off the platform as long as I can keep using it.

    It has far more plentiful third party app integration in the OS and just in the app development apis alone. It is just architected like a desktop computer, I don't get that sense on an iPhone.
    Then I have to ask, what are you doing in this thread other than beating the "Android is more open and has more features" drum, since this phone clearly does not meet your needs?
    01-06-2014 12:28 PM
  17. Speedygi's Avatar
    Then I have to ask, what are you doing in this thread other than beating the "Android is more open and has more features" drum, since this phone clearly does not meet your needs?
    First of all, iOS has more things against it than just being less open and having less features, it just isn't designed to do the same mobile computing things people could probably get done faster on Android or BB10 than on iOS. I get that the apps are better on iOS for most experiences, and it just has good fluidity, and that not everyone has to have a mobile computer in their pocket.

    I could do probably everything I want on an IPhone barring a few things, but if I can do it all Smoothly and Fast on an excellent phone like a Nexus 5 or my S4 anyways, what has a 64 bit processor got to offer me on intensive multi app processes or just in general?

    I mean I don't even want to say an Android phone can meet everyone's needs. But for the things that do matter, I might argue that an Android phone does more than an iPhone on a pure price for feature ratio.

    The OP was talking about if an IPhone gets a bigger screen I would be happy. I'm just saying that I won't, no matter how opposed anyone else here would be to the opinion.
    01-06-2014 12:36 PM
  18. mulasien's Avatar

    I mean I don't even want to say an Android phone can meet everyone's needs. But for the things that do matter, I might argue that an Android phone does more than an iPhone on a pure price for feature ratio.
    Fair enough, let's expound on this point. And by the way, I don't even care about 'winning' this discussion anymore, I just enjoy the discussion at the moment .

    You and I actually think alike, sizing up pros and cons of a given platform and looking at the value proposition of each.

    I think where you and I differ is that we place a different value on different features. There's nothing wrong with that, and fortunately we have enough different products out there to meet everyone's needs.

    For a starting baseline, I'm going to assume for the moment that we're talking about an equally priced iPhone and top end Android handset, probably each $200 with a contract so price is not a differentiating factor.

    Off the top of my head, and with personal experience in both camps, here's the features I think of with each camp:

    Android:
    - ability to add widgets to the home screen for quick looks at information
    - ability to sideload apps not on the official app market
    - much more customization potential
    - many different configurations of phones across a spectrum of manufacturers
    - access to the file system to store downloaded files
    - ability to set default apps for various functions
    - tight integration with Google's ecosystem of services
    - there's probably some I'm forgetting at the moment, but I'm sure we've all read them on various similar threads on the interwebz

    iOS:
    - much more overall stable and efficient OS
    - better developer support, most apps usually make their way to iOS first
    - (depending on what handset you get), better quality hardware
    - seamless integration with other Apple products, especially if other friends and family also have iOS devices
    - better update schedule - Apple releases an update, and qualified devices get it that day. Can't get that on non-Nexus Android devices
    - there's others, I've sure we've all heard them

    All that being said, which set of features is more important to you? I was in the Android camp, and I to this date would love to have the ability to set Fantastical 2 as my default calendar app, and download non-picture files from email to open in another app (although this is already supported in a limited fashion).

    However, that feature set from the Android set (at least for me) came with the cons of not getting updates until much later (if at all), missing out on lots of quality apps, and a generally laggier and crash prone experience on my Android phone and tablet.

    If the feature set of Android is more important to you, and outweighs the cons of being in that system, then that's the OS for you. If the feature set of iOS is more important to you and outweighs the drawbacks, then iOS is for you.

    I was in the Android camp for about 2 years, then slowly got more and more fed up with the lack of updates (outside of rooting and ROM'ing), an OS that got laggier over time (my ASUS tablet had this bad, I think it was the same issue that affected the original N7's), and decided to go with the more 'limited' iOS ecosystem, but gained a much better user experience, first access to new apps, and actally getting updates.

    For me, the Apple products gave me a better price feature ratio, as its features were more beneficial to me despite its drawbacks. Obviously, you place Android's features as having higher importance (despite its drawbacks), and that's fine with me.

    It all comes down to what features you place more importance on.

    ----By the way, I'm travelling over the next couple days and might not be available to respond for a while.
    01-06-2014 01:02 PM
  19. Speedygi's Avatar
    So you are saying Android isn't as stable... That's like saying Ferrari is bad given that your car just broke down on you.

    I have answered the OP's questions. I have stated my reasons and my thoughts on the topic, pure and simple, and if you keep insisting to point out that Android isn't stable (which I feel it is on my S4...), you apparently want to win the argument.

    At which case, I would say that's fine by me.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    01-06-2014 01:09 PM
  20. Speedygi's Avatar
    Plus you are saying that iPhones are priced similarly to top end Android phones, which is clearly a lie.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    01-06-2014 01:11 PM
  21. mulasien's Avatar
    Plus you are saying that iPhones are priced similarly to top end Android phones, which is clearly a lie.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    I can get a top end 16GB android phone at the same price as a 16GB iPhone with a contract upgrade, which is what most Americans do. If you're talking off contract or international, then you may be right. Two different scenarios. In that case, then we just don't have a common point of comparison, and there's not much point continuing this conversation.
    01-06-2014 03:26 PM
  22. jmr1015's Avatar
    Plus you are saying that iPhones are priced similarly to top end Android phones, which is clearly a lie.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    How is it a lie? A "top end" Android device, like the Galaxy S4, HTC One, Note 3, Xperia Z, all share a very similar manufacturer's suggested retail price to the iPhone when purchased off-contract. While you can find top tier Android handsets deeply discounted on Amazon, that doesn't change the fact the manufacturer was asking more, and retailers cut prices to try and bolster weak sales.

    I can only assume you're referring to the Nexus 5. Which is being sold by Google, who doesn't make the majority of their profits off of hardware sales. Samsung, HTC, Sony, Nokia, Apple... These are predominantly hardware companies. Google is a data mining company... Who gives away a free OS to get more people on their ecosystem to mine data. They can afford the slim profit margins on the device and undercut hardware companies on price.
    01-06-2014 04:46 PM
  23. dc9super80's Avatar
    So you are saying Android isn't as stable... That's like saying Ferrari is bad given that your car just broke down on you.

    I have answered the OP's questions. I have stated my reasons and my thoughts on the topic, pure and simple, and if you keep insisting to point out that Android isn't stable (which I feel it is on my S4...), you apparently want to win the argument.

    At which case, I would say that's fine by me.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    Android isn't as stable and I have a Nexus, you Dont get more Android than that.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
    01-06-2014 07:48 PM
  24. Speedygi's Avatar
    How is it a lie? A "top end" Android device, like the Galaxy S4, HTC One, Note 3, Xperia Z, all share a very similar manufacturer's suggested retail price to the iPhone when purchased off-contract. While you can find top tier Android handsets deeply discounted on Amazon, that doesn't change the fact the manufacturer was asking more, and retailers cut prices to try and bolster weak sales.

    I can only assume you're referring to the Nexus 5. Which is being sold by Google, who doesn't make the majority of their profits off of hardware sales. Samsung, HTC, Sony, Nokia, Apple... These are predominantly hardware companies. Google is a data mining company... Who gives away a free OS to get more people on their ecosystem to mine data. They can afford the slim profit margins on the device and undercut hardware companies on price.
    Very similar? I can safely say an IPhone 5s' msrp clearly stands higher than all msrps, barring limited edition phones.

    Plus if I can get by with a Nexus 5 off contract and pay as I go... Wouldn't there be a decent argument that with a much lower cost I can get pretty much do everything an iPhone can do out of the box and arguably more?

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Speedygi; 01-06-2014 at 08:08 PM.
    01-06-2014 07:54 PM
  25. Speedygi's Avatar
    I can get a top end 16GB android phone at the same price as a 16GB iPhone with a contract upgrade, which is what most Americans do. If you're talking off contract or international, then you may be right. Two different scenarios. In that case, then we just don't have a common point of comparison, and there's not much point continuing this conversation.
    If I'm not wrong, on a similarly priced contract, you have to pay a higher upfront fee for an iPhone as well?

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    01-06-2014 08:12 PM
58 123

Similar Threads

  1. Compass is static. It won't budge!!!
    By vegas33139 in forum iPhone 5s
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-09-2017, 06:22 AM
  2. How do I get rid of a disabled iPhone 5?
    By iMore Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-27-2013, 12:08 AM
  3. I can't get my phone to update to the new jailbreak.
    By iMore Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-26-2013, 03:08 PM
  4. Best iPhone shooting games
    By iMore.com in forum iMore.com News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-26-2013, 11:20 AM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-26-2013, 10:27 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD