1. Fausty82's Avatar
    Listen Up Apple-Haters: IPhone Sales Eclipse Microsoft and Amazon Revenue - Businessweek

    This is a pretty interesting read, that includes news that if the iPhone were a stand-alone product/company, it would outsell the entire product line of a number of companies, including Proctor&Gamble, Boeing and Home Depot... oh, yeah, and some software company in Redmon, WA...

    BusinessWeek: Listen Up Apple Haters...-0925_iphone_sales_630inline.jpg
    kch50428 and anon5664829 like this.
    09-26-2013 02:26 PM
  2. kch50428's Avatar
    Apple is doomed!
    09-26-2013 02:31 PM
  3. Coachbulldog's Avatar
    Makes me wonder how many more iPhone sales there would be if Apple hadn't stopped innovating.
    09-26-2013 03:50 PM
  4. Fausty82's Avatar
    Makes me wonder how many more iPhone sales there would be if Apple hadn't stopped innovating.
    Dude, you owe me a new retina MBP... I just spewed coffee all over the one I was using...
    09-26-2013 03:56 PM
  5. taz323's Avatar
    Apple is doomed!
    Lol, the ship is sinking, abandon ship!!
    09-26-2013 04:07 PM
  6. Alik Malix's Avatar
    Apple is doomed!
    Apple IS doomed!!! How the heck is it possible to top iPhone 5S? I bet iPhone 6 will have a 4.5-4.7" screen - Almost all of the people I know (except for one diehard Android Fan) will switch back as they're anxiously waiting for a bigger iPhone. I just got an iPad, cannot beat media, gaming, or creating in anything competition has to offer. For everything else there's the iPhone....
    anon5664829 likes this.
    09-27-2013 04:09 PM
  7. LazyStarGazer's Avatar
    Apple IS doomed!!! How the heck is it possible to top iPhone 5S? I bet iPhone 6 will have a 4.5-4.7" screen - Almost all of the people I know (except for one diehard Android Fan) will switch back as they're anxiously waiting for a bigger iPhone. I just got an iPad, cannot beat media, gaming, or creating in anything competition has to offer. For everything else there's the iPhone....
    Promise me that your friends won't come to iMore and complain that iOS has no widgets.
    Lol.
    kch50428 and jmr1015 like this.
    09-27-2013 06:01 PM
  8. kch50428's Avatar
    More bad news for Apple....

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/30/bu...ble-brand.html

    Doomed Apple is.
    09-29-2013 10:11 PM
  9. cardfan's Avatar
    I don't know if I'm hearing Apple is doomed a lot. Just that they're not doing what analysts thinks they should be doing. It's like OMG, if they would just lower it to free, they'd have more sales (duh)! They'd have real growth! So more of a case of a lot of monday quarterbacks who still don't understand Apple.
    09-29-2013 11:07 PM
  10. neurodave's Avatar
    Simply put, Apple isn't going anywhere any time soon.
    jmr1015 likes this.
    09-30-2013 04:25 PM
  11. YorkieRay's Avatar
    You can certainly count me in as an Apple cynic, if not a hater. That was always not the case. I am old enough to be able to say that the first personal computer that I ever used was an Apple IIe back in the mid 80s.
    I do have an iPod Classic which I bought against the advice of a colleague at work many years ago, he said that iTunes was rubbish. My verdict on the iPod was that is was great hardwear, let down by iTunes.
    I always wanted an iPhone from it's launch but I thought that it was a high price to pay for a phone that could not even connect to 3G.
    The turning point came at the time that Steve Jobs died when I heard one of his quotes when he once said the the iPod Touch was, "the iPhone without a contract". The current iPod Touch runs the same Retina screen and runs the same os, yet is less than half the price of an equivalent iPhone, with admittedly lower specs. I was surprised that the price difference was so big.
    On top of that, I can qualify for discounts on orders direct from Apple through my employers who are both customers and clients to Apple UK. I found that there were discounts to be had on every Apple product, except for the iPhone, which is only ever sold at full price here in the UK if you want one sim free. At Amazon UK, you can get a discounted Samsung Galaxy Note 3 32GB with a 5.7" screen for just 5 more than an iPhone 5c from Apple. Amazon do not sell the 5s and 5c, the 5 is priced at higher than the price from Apple, which means that even the mightiest online retailer in the world cannot get a discount out of Apple on an iPhone.
    As the smartphone market matures, different customers will have different requirements for their phone. I don't like that Apple dictates that a smartphone cannot have a screen bigger than 4", that it cannot have a removeable battery, that if you want more memory that you must only buy from Apple in the form of a whole new phone. Samsung, BlackBerry, Nokia, HTC etc, all have a wide range of choice for the customer, Apple just has 2 versions of the same phone and it has taken them 6 years to reach this stage.
    I see from that article that the iPhone was rated higher in sales than Proctor and Gamble. This does not quite fit with the repeated claim that I see here that Apple is a premium brand to be conpared to the liks of Gucci or Bentley. A poster elsewhere said that on a visit to DC, almost everyone had an iPhone, it's about once a month that I will see a Bentley. Apple have created an expensive, mass market device in the iPhone and they have made truly huge profits from it.
    10-11-2013 07:15 PM
  12. Fausty82's Avatar
    I see from that article that the iPhone was rated higher in sales than Proctor and Gamble. This does not quite fit with the repeated claim that I see here that Apple is a premium brand to be conpared to the liks of Gucci or Bentley. A poster elsewhere said that on a visit to DC, almost everyone had an iPhone, it's about once a month that I will see a Bentley. Apple have created an expensive, mass market device in the iPhone and they have made truly huge profits from it.
    You clearly missed the point of that article. The article was not to compare what Apple produces to what other companies produce... but to compare to total sales revenue and profit from Apple against other, larger, multi-product producing concerns. The point is that Apple sells MORE iPhones (in terms of revenue generated) than Procter & Gamble sells toilet bowl cleaners and toothpaste.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    10-11-2013 07:41 PM
  13. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Thanks YorkieRay for deciding this post was the appropriate place for you to just spew your bile randomly about everything you don't like about the iPhone, lol. Care to actually attempt to stay on topic? Or can we expect more drivel along the lines of what you put above?
    10-11-2013 08:29 PM
  14. jmr1015's Avatar
    You can certainly count me in as an Apple cynic, if not a hater.
    Apple hater.

    That was always not the case. I am old enough to be able to say that the first personal computer that I ever used was an Apple IIe back in the mid 80s.


    I always wanted an iPhone from it's launch but I thought that it was a high price to pay for a phone that could not even connect to 3G.
    The turning point came at the time that Steve Jobs died when I heard one of his quotes when he once said the the iPod Touch was, "the iPhone without a contract". The current iPod Touch runs the same Retina screen and runs the same os, yet is less than half the price of an equivalent iPhone, with admittedly lower specs. I was surprised that the price difference was so big.
    The iPod touch is an iPhone... minus data accessibility away from wifi, and the ability to make and receive calls and send and receive SMS. You know, phone stuff.

    On top of that, I can qualify for discounts on orders direct from Apple through my employers who are both customers and clients to Apple UK. I found that there were discounts to be had on every Apple product, except for the iPhone, which is only ever sold at full price here in the UK if you want one sim free. At Amazon UK, you can get a discounted Samsung Galaxy Note 3 32GB with a 5.7" screen for just 5 more than an iPhone 5c from Apple. Amazon do not sell the 5s and 5c, the 5 is priced at higher than the price from Apple, which means that even the mightiest online retailer in the world cannot get a discount out of Apple on an iPhone.
    Apple doesn't need to offer anyone a discount on their iPhones. They will sell at full price regardless. You sound as if you feel Apple owes you, or Amazon, a discount.

    As the smartphone market matures, different customers will have different requirements for their phone. I don't like that Apple dictates that a smartphone cannot have a screen bigger than 4", that it cannot have a removeable battery, that if you want more memory that you must only buy from Apple in the form of a whole new phone. Samsung, BlackBerry, Nokia, HTC etc, all have a wide range of choice for the customer, Apple just has 2 versions of the same phone and it has taken them 6 years to reach this stage.
    Apple doesn't dictate what a smartphone can and cannot have... they dictate what their smartphone can and cannot have. They can do that. They build it. If they want to build it different, they will. If the iPhone doesn't fit the bill for what you want, go buy something else. Apple isn't sweating it.

    I see from that article that the iPhone was rated higher in sales than Proctor and Gamble. This does not quite fit with the repeated claim that I see here that Apple is a premium brand to be conpared to the liks of Gucci or Bentley. A poster elsewhere said that on a visit to DC, almost everyone had an iPhone, it's about once a month that I will see a Bentley. Apple have created an expensive, mass market device in the iPhone and they have made truly huge profits from it.
    The article isn't comparing what the companies are selling... they are comparing revenue for the iPhone, one product line from Apple... over a period of 4 quarters, to the total revenue of entire corporations over the same period... to show that Apple is in no way, a company in trouble or on its way out.

    "If this single product were its own company in the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index, IPhone Inc. would outsell 474 of those companies—ranking between Wells Fargo (WFC) ($90.5 billion) and Marathon Petroleum (MPC) ($84.9 billion). The iPhone’s $88.4 billion in annualized revenue tops 21 of the 30 component companies in the Dow Jones industrial average—it would be the ninth-biggest stock in the Dow 30"
    10-11-2013 08:56 PM
  15. YorkieRay's Avatar
    Thanks YorkieRay for deciding this post was the appropriate place for you to just spew your bile randomly about everything you don't like about the iPhone, lol. Care to actually attempt to stay on topic? Or can we expect more drivel along the lines of what you put above?
    No bile here at all, just someone who needs some convincing about the pricing of Apple products and the huge profits they make as a result. As I said before, I was an admirer of Apple since the 80s, but things have changed since.

    I have asked this question many times but I never seem to get an answer, maybe you Sean as an Apple aficionado could give me the answer I am looking for. Steve Jobs once called the iPod Touch, "the iPhone without a contract". The current models have the same Retina screen, the same memory and run the same version of iOS, the iPhone has a faster processor, a better camera and can make calls. An iPod Touch 32GB costs $299, a 32 GB iPhone 5c 32GB costs $649. This means that the extra specs like that better camera cost $350, more than the original price of the iPod.
    Please tell me Sean, what it is exactly that you get for that extra $350 and why it is worth paying that much more for an iPhone over an iPod Touch when both devices largely look and work the same.
    It wasn't me that originated the link between the iPod Touch and the iPhone, it was Steve Jobs.
    Last edited by YorkieRay; 10-12-2013 at 07:47 AM.
    10-12-2013 07:32 AM
  16. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    No bile here at all, just someone who needs some convincing about the pricing of Apple products and the huge profits they make as a result. As I said before, I was an admirer of Apple since the 80s, but things have changed since.

    I have asked this question many times but I never seem to get an answer, maybe you Sean as an Apple aficionado could give me the answer I am looking for. Steve Jobs once called the iPod Touch, "the iPhone without a contract". The current models have the same Retina screen, the same memory and run the same version of iOS, the iPhone has a faster processor, a better camera and can make calls. An iPod Touch 32GB costs $299, a 32 GB iPhone 5c 32GB costs $649. This means that the extra specs like that better camera cost $350, more than the original price of the iPod.
    Please tell me Sean, what it is exactly that you get for that extra $350 and why it is worth paying that much more for an iPhone over an iPod Touch when both devices largely look and work the same.
    It wasn't me that originated the link between the iPod Touch and the iPhone, it was Steve Jobs.
    It's not just a better camera. You have all the necessary cellular radios and antennas in a very small form factor, more powerful processors, etc. the convenience of being able to take it anywhere.

    But whateverif it's not worth it to you, don't buy it. It's no different than if my neighbor thinks its worth it to her to buy a BMW and I'm content with a Honda (even though I could afford the BMW). The overall merits of the devices or cars, etc don't matter. Buy whatever meets the price vs value points in your own mind and accept that other people make different judgements.

    If an iPhone vs an iPod touch isn't worth it to you, that's fine, I have no issues with that because you purchased it for you. If I make the opposite decision, you shouldn't care either because I purchased it for me.
    jmr1015 and Fausty82 like this.
    10-12-2013 08:49 AM
  17. YorkieRay's Avatar
    It's not just a better camera. You have all the necessary cellular radios and antennas in a very small form factor, more powerful processors, etc. the convenience of being able to take it anywhere.

    But whatever…if it's not worth it to you, don't buy it. It's no different than if my neighbor thinks its worth it to her to buy a BMW and I'm content with a Honda (even though I could afford the BMW). The overall merits of the devices or cars, etc don't matter. Buy whatever meets the price vs value points in your own mind and accept that other people make different judgements.

    If an iPhone vs an iPod touch isn't worth it to you, that's fine, I have no issues with that because you purchased it for you. If I make the opposite decision, you shouldn't care either because I purchased it for me.
    At least your answer is better than the one I got in an Apple store, where the assistant just walked away from my question or a friend at work with an iPhone 5, who said that Apple charge that much more, "because they can".
    I'm just not convinced that the cost of the extra radios, faster processor and a better camera can add up to more than the price of a whole new iPod Touch. To me Steve Jobs was saying that you can get the same experience with an iPod Touch as you can on an iPhone at a lower price and who would want to argue with the words of the great man?
    10-12-2013 10:23 AM
  18. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    At least your answer is better than the one I got in an Apple store, where the assistant just walked away from my question or a friend at work with an iPhone 5, who said that Apple charge that much more, "because they can".
    I'm just not convinced that the cost of the extra radios, faster processor and a better camera can add up to more than the price of a whole new iPod Touch. To me Steve Jobs was saying that you can get the same experience with an iPod Touch as you can on an iPhone at a lower price and who would want to argue with the words of the great man?
    Like any business they charge what they charge because people will pay it. If they charge too much, the cost/value trade off will become too much for a larger number of people and they won't buy the phone. But, regardless of your perception of the added value of an iPhone over an iPod touch, if someone else is willing to pay that price why should they charge less?
    10-12-2013 10:32 AM
  19. jmr1015's Avatar
    Like any business they charge what they charge because people will pay it. If they charge too much, the cost/value trade off will become too much for a larger number of people and they won't buy the phone. But, regardless of your perception of the added value of an iPhone over an iPod touch, if someone else is willing to pay that price why should they charge less?
    Well said.

    YorkieRay, in short, any product is only worth what people will pay for it. Period. Regardless of how you feel about it. Regardless of actual production cost differences with similar devices. Regardless of the quote of Mr Jobs you keep bringing up. No one has a gun to the heads of millions of people around the world, forcing them to buy iPhones. There are plenty of alternative devices, at cheaper price points, if you don't like the iPhone or its price.

    Basically, in a way your friend was right. Apple charges what they do, because they can. Because millions upon millions of people do feel the iPhone is worth its price... If you're not one of them, please, feel free to buy whatever you feel is worth it to you, personally.
    blackmagicwoman likes this.
    10-12-2013 04:54 PM
  20. kch50428's Avatar
    ...a friend at work with an iPhone 5, who said that Apple charge that much more, "because they can".
    Not because they can... because people are willing to pay it.
    10-12-2013 04:59 PM
  21. LazyStarGazer's Avatar
    Not because they can... because people are willing to pay it.
    @kch:
    Uhm, that's the same thing.

    @ YorkieRay:
    They can charge a premium price, because people will pay it.
    People will pay extra for quality, reliability, ease of use, excellent support & customer service.
    Having the best App Store in the world doesn't hurt.
    Millions of songs available in iTunes.
    Movies.
    Podcasts.
    iTunes U
    Books.
    Easy integration with other apple hardware.
    This why there is a premium on their products.

    The iPod is a great device, but limited to wifi.
    With the iPhone, you are paying to enjoy that great device ALMOST ANYWHERE.
    The extra cost is for added components & mobility.

    Edit:
    Also for R&D.
    Wifi is standard around the world, so not much new engineering needs to be done for it.

    Cellular changes every few years.
    2G
    3G
    LTE
    more bands, 3 different versions of iPhone to address various global markets.
    Last edited by LazyStarGazer; 10-12-2013 at 05:54 PM.
    Coachbulldog likes this.
    10-12-2013 05:44 PM
  22. jmr1015's Avatar
    and just to point out a clear example of the way things work when the majority of people don't find value in a device for its price... when they don't buy it... This is why Blackberry is sitting on almost $1,000,000,000 worth of Z10s... and even at a deeply discounted price of $300 to $350 on Amazon and a few other retailers, and $50 to FREE with a two year contract, they aren't flying off the shelf.

    The Z10 isn't a horrible device. I actually would like one as a backup phone and just to play around with BB OS 10, which to me is a fantastic OS... But, I would only pay maybe $250 tops, for an unlocked one, brand new and contract free... and by the sales numbers, I'm not alone in my assessment of that phones value.
    10-12-2013 09:13 PM
  23. WhiteSpir1t's Avatar
    and just to point out a clear example of the way things work when the majority of people don't find value in a device for its price... when they don't buy it... This is why Blackberry is sitting on almost $1,000,000,000 worth of Z10s... and even at a deeply discounted price of $300 to $350 on Amazon and a few other retailers, and $50 to FREE with a two year contract, they aren't flying off the shelf.

    The Z10 isn't a horrible device. I actually would like one as a backup phone and just to play around with BB OS 10, which to me is a fantastic OS... But, I would only pay maybe $250 tops, for an unlocked one, brand new and contract free... and by the sales numbers, I'm not alone in my assessment of that phones value.
    Trust me. I'm sitting on a white Z10 and it's not even worth $50 USD.


    Posted via BlackBerry Z10 <----$715 later and still waiting for apps
    10-13-2013 10:33 AM
  24. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    No bile here at all, just someone who needs some convincing about the pricing of Apple products and the huge profits they make as a result. As I said before, I was an admirer of Apple since the 80s, but things have changed since.

    I have asked this question many times but I never seem to get an answer, maybe you Sean as an Apple aficionado could give me the answer I am looking for. Steve Jobs once called the iPod Touch, "the iPhone without a contract". The current models have the same Retina screen, the same memory and run the same version of iOS, the iPhone has a faster processor, a better camera and can make calls. An iPod Touch 32GB costs $299, a 32 GB iPhone 5c 32GB costs $649. This means that the extra specs like that better camera cost $350, more than the original price of the iPod.
    Please tell me Sean, what it is exactly that you get for that extra $350 and why it is worth paying that much more for an iPhone over an iPod Touch when both devices largely look and work the same.
    It wasn't me that originated the link between the iPod Touch and the iPhone, it was Steve Jobs.
    You're right, it wasn't you that originated the link, but it IS you that is generalizing the differences to make them seem more insignificant (so that it fits your argument better)...so sure, I'll bite (if for no other reason than to have you retort with content that further proves my point earlier)...

    What's the difference between the iPod Touch and the iPhone 5S?

    - A7 processor (64bit)
    - M7 motion co-processor
    - 1GB RAM
    - Cellular Antenna for LTE, 4G/3G/2G
    - Upgrade GPU
    - Better Camera
    - Fingerprint Scanner
    - Improved Audio Processor

    ...and I'm sure there are a few little details I'm missing (since I literally only did a 2sec. google search to find those things)...is that worth $350? Yup. But maybe you still disagree...

    Sooooooo...let's add even more logic to this justification of the iPhone's pricing. Let's say that one day they decide to add a cellular antenna to this phone for data purposes...we're not even talking voice service antenna, JUST data service...if we look at the iPad Mini, cellular antenna premium is over $100 vs. the WiFi only model...so given it's an iPod Touch, let's just be fair and call it an even $100 premium.

    I think you see where I'm going with this. Knock off a bit of that difference and you're talking even less money for a pretty significant list of features not found on the iPod Touch.

    I'm not going to waste time trying to make you see value in the iPhone, but I will say that your argument about the iPod Touch being a better value is completely invalid. And you know what's funny? Compared to the iPhone 5 even, knock off the M7 option and drop the processor back to the A6 and you've still got a list only slightly less significant compared to the 5S.
    10-13-2013 09:21 PM
  25. YorkieRay's Avatar
    You're right, it wasn't you that originated the link, but it IS you that is generalizing the differences to make them seem more insignificant (so that it fits your argument better)...so sure, I'll bite (if for no other reason than to have you retort with content that further proves my point earlier)...

    What's the difference between the iPod Touch and the iPhone 5S?

    - A7 processor (64bit)
    - M7 motion co-processor
    - 1GB RAM
    - Cellular Antenna for LTE, 4G/3G/2G
    - Upgrade GPU
    - Better Camera
    - Fingerprint Scanner
    - Improved Audio Processor

    ...and I'm sure there are a few little details I'm missing (since I literally only did a 2sec. google search to find those things)...is that worth $350? Yup. But maybe you still disagree...

    Sooooooo...let's add even more logic to this justification of the iPhone's pricing. Let's say that one day they decide to add a cellular antenna to this phone for data purposes...we're not even talking voice service antenna, JUST data service...if we look at the iPad Mini, cellular antenna premium is over $100 vs. the WiFi only model...so given it's an iPod Touch, let's just be fair and call it an even $100 premium.

    I think you see where I'm going with this. Knock off a bit of that difference and you're talking even less money for a pretty significant list of features not found on the iPod Touch.

    I'm not going to waste time trying to make you see value in the iPhone, but I will say that your argument about the iPod Touch being a better value is completely invalid. And you know what's funny? Compared to the iPhone 5 even, knock off the M7 option and drop the processor back to the A6 and you've still got a list only slightly less significant compared to the 5S.
    Thanks for that. The comparison you have made is with the 5s when mine was with the 5c.

    I have some good news for you, I might be getting an iPad in early 2014. I'm not buying it though. I am due a service anniversary next year and a friend who achieved the same last week said that an iPad was one of the gift options. I think that it will be most useful to me.

    I have also just been reading a report in a British newspaper about the rumours that Apple is cutting production of the 5C. Yes, some of the Apple bashing comments from readers were just stupid, but many others shared my opinions of Apple like this one.

    "I have no problem with Apple , they make good products but they are simply too expensive, the 5C was overpriced from the start . Samsung are the best selling phone company because they make phones to suit all peoples budgets."

    That's a comment that is much the same as I have been trying to make. When I am sat on a table of 5 at the work canteen and I'm the only one without an iPhone, when I see kids going to school on the bus with iPhones, I'm not so convinced that the iPhone is a premium device that justifies a high price with a lack of discount, more like an expensive mass market product.

    If I get the iPad, one of the main services I will want to access whilst I'm out and about is Virgin Media's TV Anywhere service here in the UK. Beyond a PC or a Mac, the only mobile devices that can access this service are those made by Apple. Even Android devices are ruled out because there is no app and no support for the Chrome browser. The only option for VM customers are the limited range of devices from a premium manufacturer who sells their products at a premium price to be able to access the iOS ecosystem.

    Also if I get the iPad, I will be the owner of 2 Apple products, I may then have even more to say here at iMore.
    10-14-2013 03:25 PM
29 12

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