Which product Lines Should Apple retire?

[Ken Magel]

Several Apple product iines such as the Mac Mini have not been updated in several years and are no longer competitive. Which, if any, product lines, hardware or software, should Apple drop so that sufficient resources can be devoted to providing timely updates for the remaining products? Perhaps, the IPad line could subsume some of the Macintosh lines?

 

[Golfdriver97]

I honestly think they should streamline the laptop side of things. Have the Macbook be 12" and 14" screen sizes, and the Pro be 15" and 17".

Currently 10 different variants. They could cut them down to 6.

 

[Just_Me_D]

I think they should get rid of the iPod Touch, but I’m saying that without any knowledge of how many of them Apple continues to sell.

 

[Rob Phillips]

I don’t think the absence of updates to some of Apple’s products is due to lack of resources. Apple is the largest company in the world. As such, I can’t really recommend any product lines that should be killed to make room for other things.

 

[anony_mouse]

I would argue that Apple should retire the iPhone SE, 6S and 7, and introduce genuinely competitive new phones at the same price. The iPhone 6S costs an outrageous $449 in its most basic version, for a phone that launched in 2015.

 

[TylerLV76]

I would argue that Apple should retire the iPhone SE, 6S and 7, and introduce genuinely competitive new phones at the same price. The iPhone 6S costs an outrageous $449 in its most basic version, for a phone that launched in 2015.

The iPhone SE is one of the best selling iPhones. In the UK it was the best selling smartphone as of 2016 (2017 numbers don't appear to be available). It held a 9.2 percentage. In the US it held a 5.1. To get rid of that phone, without an equal replacement, would be a massive mistake.

When the SE2 releases they will retire the SE. The 6s will most likely be retired this year and the 7 next year. Thats the standard cycle for Apple.

 

[anony_mouse]

The iPhone SE is one of the best selling iPhones. In the UK it was the best selling smartphone as of 2016 (2017 numbers don't appear to be available). It held a 9.2 percentage. In the US it held a 5.1. To get rid of that phone, without an equal replacement, would be a massive mistake.

When the SE2 releases they will retire the SE. The 6s will most likely be retired this year and the 7 next year. Thats the standard cycle for Apple.

Yes and that cycle is bad, in my opinion. I'm looking to buy a smartphone at the moment. I usually spend around EUR 200 on a smartphone, and I've always been very happy with the results. I could spend more if I got something genuinely better in some worthwhile ways, but if not, I prefer to spend my money on other things.

Let's look at what Apple offers to me. I'm not interested in a design from 2012 with a tiny screen (I know the internals are different), so the SE is out, regardless of price. It's barely competitive with phones costing EUR 130. The next iPhone up is the 6S from 2015, which costs EUR 529. I will repeat that - a phone from 2015 costs EUR 529. And this phone has a 4.7 inch display. That EUR 130 phone manages 5 inches and smaller bezels. This is hardly a serious proposition in 2018.

I appreciate that plenty of people are prepared to buy these outdated iPhones for very high prices, and that Apple don't want to make cheaper phones too good, as fewer people would then buy their more expensive models. But they do miss out on market share - a modern iPhone costing EUR 500 and competitive with other phones at that price would be tempting to current Android users such as myself. It's a shame Apple are not interested in winning us back as customers.

PS. It's rumoured that Apple will introduce a new 6.1 inch LCD iPhone for $550-650 this year - https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/18/kuo-6-1-inch-iphone-dual-sim-option/ . I will leave you to decide how likely this is to be true, but it seems like the right direction to me.
The dual SIM option would also be a huge step forward - lack of this must cost Apple some serious sales across the world right now. A $100 uplift for a second SIM slot is ridiculous, though. It's a common feature even on cheap Android phones. Our EUR 130 phone above has two SIM slots.

 

[Spencerdl]

Honestly I don't think they should retire any of their products. I guess what I'm trying to say is if I was in business and charging 500% over cost on everything, why should I retire it. I'm always making money when I sell a product, so why retire said product(s). Just sayin'

 

[anony_mouse]

Honestly I don't think they should retire any of their products. I guess what I'm trying to say is if I was in business and charging 500% over cost on everything, why should I retire it. I'm always making money when I sell a product, so why retire said product(s). Just sayin'

I am looking at it from the point of view of a customer. You are looking at it from the point of view of Apple. As contributors to a user forum, I am not sure why we would place the needs of an extremely rich company above the needs of customers.

What do you mean by "just sayin'"?

 

[TylerLV76]

Let's look at what Apple offers to me. I'm not interested in a design from 2012 with a tiny screen (I know the internals are different), so the SE is out, regardless of price. It's barely competitive with phones costing EUR 130. The next iPhone up is the 6S from 2015, which costs EUR 529. I will repeat that - a phone from 2015 costs EUR 529. And this phone has a 4.7 inch display. That EUR 130 phone manages 5 inches and smaller bezels. This is hardly a serious proposition in 2018.

I appreciate that plenty of people are prepared to buy these outdated iPhones for very high prices, and that Apple don't want to make cheaper phones too good, as fewer people would then buy their more expensive models. But they do miss out on market share - a modern iPhone costing EUR 500 and competitive with other phones at that price would be tempting to current Android users such as myself. It's a shame Apple are not interested in winning us back as customers.

All that would be fine if the sales numbers didn't directly dispute your statements. The SE is the highest selling phone in the UK.

They clearly don't need to "win back" anyone if they are outselling everyone already in the regions they focus on.

 

[anony_mouse]

All that would be fine if the sales numbers didn't directly dispute your statements. The SE is the highest selling phone in the UK.

They clearly don't need to "win back" anyone if they are outselling everyone already in the regions they focus on.

The SE was the highest selling phone in the UK *two years ago*, according to you (would be helpful if you could provide references).

You wrote "To get rid of that phone (the SE), without an equal replacement, would be a massive mistake.". I agree. I would use the word "better" rather than "equal", and maybe add "that is competitive with other phones available at a similar price", but I don't disagree with your statement. Maybe you could elaborate on which part of my post you disagree with?

A new SE2 is rumoured to be one the way. Speaking for myself, if I haven't bought a new phone by then, I will take a look at it. However. if it's a similar form factor to the SE (and the 5) then I'm not interested. The rumoured new 6.1 inch replacement for 6S I mentioned above is more interesting, but will likely come too late for me.

Apple had a global marketshare of around 14% in 2017 (ref: Communities Dominate Brands: Smartphone Stats: Full Year 2017 Top 10, OS Installed Base and Everything Else You Ever Wanted), so there is huge scope to "win back" customers, and win new ones. Starting with me.

 

[TylerLV76]

The SE was the highest selling phone in the UK *two years ago*, according to you (would be helpful if you could provide references).

https://www.theinquirer.net/inquire...e-se-is-the-best-selling-smartphone-in-the-uk

https://www.statista.com/statistics/288870/market-share-of-apple-iphone-in-great-britain/

Apple had a global marketshare of around 14% in 2017 (ref: Communities Dominate Brands: Smartphone Stats: Full Year 2017 Top 10, OS Installed Base and Everything Else You Ever Wanted), so there is huge scope to "win back" customers, and win new ones. Starting with me.

Samsungs leads due to the Asia market that Apple hasn't been able to penetrate. Thats been known for a long time. Every other report I have seen shows Apple in 2nd with Oppo in 3rd and 4th. That doesn't say they need to win anything back when they are clearly dominating the market.

https://247wallst.com/consumer-elec...e-sales-dive-but-apple-leads-in-market-share/

https://arabiangazette.com/apple-samsung-global-smartphone-marketshare/

https://www.itweb.co.za/content/WnpNgM2Ax827VrGd

It wouldn't make sense to abandon the highest selling phone in a region outside of the US when its shown it clearly has a huge demand. Their cycle strategy has worked for years and allowed them to appeal to multiple groups of consumers. Some just want a cheap phone that isn't the size of a brick so they buy an SE. Some want a larger phone but at a lower price so they buy a 6s or 6s plus currently. Some want the top of the line and they buy an X. Keeping these models available allows them to attack each market while only having one brand. Android does this buy having 100 brands and allowing them to fragment the OS the way it currently is.

I get that you don't like the SE or Apple for that matter, which is fine. My point was, why would they abandon one of their highest selling devices that has allowed them to dominate a region?

 

[anony_mouse]

Samsungs leads due to the Asia market that Apple hasn't been able to penetrate. Thats been known for a long time. Every other report I have seen shows Apple in 2nd with Oppo in 3rd and 4th. That doesn't say they need to win anything back when they are clearly dominating the market in all regions but 1.

https://247wallst.com/consumer-elec...e-sales-dive-but-apple-leads-in-market-share/

https://arabiangazette.com/apple-samsung-global-smartphone-marketshare/

https://www.itweb.co.za/content/WnpNgM2Ax827VrGd

It wouldn't make sense to abandon the highest selling phone in a region outside of the US when its shown it clearly has a huge demand. Their cycle strategy has worked for years and allowed them to appeal to multiple groups of consumers. Some just want a cheap phone that isn't the size of a brick so they buy an SE. Some want a larger phone but at a lower price so they buy a 6s or 6s plus currently. Some want the top of the line and they buy an X. Keeping these models available allows them to attack each market while only having one brand. Android does this buy having 100 brands and allowing them to fragment the OS the way it currently is.

I get that you don't like the SE or Apple for that matter, which is fine. My point was, why would they abandon one of their highest selling devices that has allowed them to dominate a region?

Thanks for posting references.

I think you are missing my point.

1. According to the articles you posted, Apple had up to 20% market share in Q4 2017. I recommend looking at the whole year, not just Q4 because Q4 is always the best quarter for Apple, as that's when they usually launch their new iPhones. So 14% is more representative. But let's go with your number to avoid any further discussion on this point. If Apple have 20% of the market, then there's still 80% of the market that they don't have. That's a big opportunity. Is iOS only worth 20% of the market when Android has 80%?

2. I am not advocating that Apple abandon the segment of the market which the SE sits in. I am advocating that they serve that segment better! Do you understand that point? Getting rid of the 6S (from 2015!) and replacing it with a modern phone at the same price would be good, right? Same for the SE, right, which is over two years old and has a design from 2012?

3. Why on earth do you think I don't like Apple? I am actually saying that I would like to buy one of their phones, just not one from 2015, or one with a design from 2012! It is possible to disagree with some aspects of a company's strategy without "not liking" that company.

 

[TylerLV76]

1. According to the articles you posted, Apple had up to 20% market share in Q4 2017. I recommend looking at the whole year, not just Q4 because Q4 is always the best quarter for Apple, as that's when they usually launch their new iPhones. So 14% is more representative. But let's go with your number to avoid any further discussion on this point. If Apple have 20% of the market, then there's still 80% of the market that they don't have. That's a big opportunity. Is iOS only worth 20% of the market when Android has 80%?

Android is not a brand, its an OS. Android does not hold market share, Samsung, Oppo, Huawei, Lenovo etc etc. hold market share. When you are competing with 100's of brands and you consistently rank in the top 2 you are clearly doing it right. Those stats I linked to also show the year end rankings.

2. I am not advocating that Apple abandon the segment of the market which the SE sits in. I am advocating that they serve that segment better! Do you understand that point? Getting rid of the 6S (from 2015!) and replacing it with a modern phone at the same price would be good, right? Same for the SE, right?

Why would they do that when their strategy has been working for years? It wouldn't make a bit of sense. With apples OS being tuned the way it is, with the exception of iOS 11's bugs, they don't need phones with higher specs to appeal to consumers interested in iOS. People who want iOS want it for its simplicity and reliability as well as having what they see the majority of the time. It doesn't take unnecessary specs to achieve that goal.

3. Why on earth do you think I don't like Apple? I am actually saying that I would like to buy one of their phones, just not one from 2015, or one with a design from 2012! It is possible to disagree with some aspects of a company's strategy without "not liking" that company.

Because of the majority of your posts complaining about products you don't own. Seems pretty evident that you have issues with the brand and their decisions. Decisions that have ranked them in the top of all companies globally. You can buy one of their phones not from 2015 anytime you like. The issue is you want to pay the same price as you would for non-flagship Android. Thats just not gonna happen.

 

[anon(50597)]

Yes and that cycle is bad, in my opinion. I'm looking to buy a smartphone at the moment. I usually spend around EUR 200 on a smartphone, and I've always been very happy with the results. I could spend more if I got something genuinely better in some worthwhile ways, but if not, I prefer to spend my money on other things.

Let's look at what Apple offers to me. I'm not interested in a design from 2012 with a tiny screen (I know the internals are different), so the SE is out, regardless of price. It's barely competitive with phones costing EUR 130. The next iPhone up is the 6S from 2015, which costs EUR 529. I will repeat that - a phone from 2015 costs EUR 529. And this phone has a 4.7 inch display. That EUR 130 phone manages 5 inches and smaller bezels. This is hardly a serious proposition in 2018.

I appreciate that plenty of people are prepared to buy these outdated iPhones for very high prices, and that Apple don't want to make cheaper phones too good, as fewer people would then buy their more expensive models. But they do miss out on market share - a modern iPhone costing EUR 500 and competitive with other phones at that price would be tempting to current Android users such as myself. It's a shame Apple are not interested in winning us back as customers.

PS. It's rumoured that Apple will introduce a new 6.1 inch LCD iPhone for $550-650 this year - https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/18/kuo-6-1-inch-iphone-dual-sim-option/ . I will leave you to decide how likely this is to be true, but it seems like the right direction to me.
The dual SIM option would also be a huge step forward - lack of this must cost Apple some serious sales across the world right now. A $100 uplift for a second SIM slot is ridiculous, though. It's a common feature even on cheap Android phones. Our EUR 130 phone above has two SIM slots.

I completely agree with you. The problem is there are enough people willing to pay these extremely high prices so Apple doesn’t care. They just keep churning out similar high-priced devices and they sell.
Until people change their marketing strategy will not.

 

[Sherry_B]

Every other report I have seen shows Apple in 2nd with Oppo in 3rd and 4th.

Seeing Oppo listed there for their phones doesn't surprise me. They have the most phenomenal Blu-Ray players and my husband will not purchase any other brand. I almost bought one of their phones after I decided to ditch pure Android devices, but the 6s caught my eye.... now there is a solidly made phone. Bought the 8 Plus because my eyes just aren't what they used to be.

I think the current phone lineup that Apple has is just fine. It's that HomePod thing they need to get rid of. Nothing beats a good sound system, a Sonos, and a nice set of Salk floor speakers. Apple can't even come close.

 

[TylerLV76]

...It's that HomePod thing they need to get rid of. Nothing beats a good sound system, a Sonos, and a nice set of Salk floor speakers. Apple can't even come close.

Absolutely. I don't have an issue with them getting into the smart speaker category but the price and limitations of the HomePod doomed it before it ever released.

It sounds phenomenal but it doesn't compare to my home theater speakers like you said. If they brought that speaker to market between $199 and $250 I think it would be doing much better than it is today.

 

[anony_mouse]

Android is not a brand, its an OS. Android does not hold market share, Samsung, Oppo, Huawei, Lenovo etc etc. hold market share. When you are competing with 100's of brands and you consistently rank in the top 2 you are clearly doing it right. Those stats I linked to also show the year end rankings.

What do you mean "Android does not hold market share". Yes it does. It's on more than 80% of smart phones in use today! It holds more than 80% market share for mobile software platforms. Anyway, my point on market share was that there's still plenty out there that Apple could win, not that Apple don't have plenty already.

Why would they do that when their strategy has been working for years? It wouldn't make a bit of sense. With apples OS being tuned the way it is, with the exception of iOS 11's bugs, they don't need phones with higher specs to appeal to consumers interested in iOS. People who want iOS want it for its simplicity and reliability as well as having what they see the majority of the time. It doesn't take unnecessary specs to achieve that goal.

If we are not allowed to discuss Apple's strategy and how it could be improved, what is the point of this site?
If there's no point in improving the specifications of the phones, why do Apple do so every year? Also, the 6S looks dated (arguably the 7 and 8 too, but that's a discussion for another day), and the SE looks prehistoric.

Because of the majority of your posts complaining about products you don't own. Seems pretty evident that you have issues with the brand and their decisions. Decisions that have ranked them in the top of all companies globally. You can buy one of their phones not from 2015 anytime you like. The issue is you want to pay the same price as you would for non-flagship Android. Thats just not gonna happen.

I repeat - criticising some actions of a company does not mean that you "don't like" that company.

I still feel you are not looking at this from the point of view of the customer. Maybe you can explain in simple words that even I can understand why it would be bad for Apple to update the SE, 6S, etc to be more modern and competitive with other handsets available for a similar price? Wouldn't that be a good thing for customers?

 

[TylerLV76]

What do you mean "Android does not hold market share". Yes it does. It's on more than 80% of smart phones in use today! It holds more than 80% market share for mobile software platforms. Anyway, my point on market share was that there's still plenty out there that Apple could win, not that Apple don't have plenty already.

Android is the platform 100's of companies use, not a brand. Brands hold market share and those brands hold the markets where their customers have access to them easily they maintain brand loyalty. India and the Moto series is a prime example.

If we are not allowed to discuss Apple's strategy and how it could be improved, what is the point of this site?
If there's no point in improving the specifications of the phones, why do Apple do so every year? Also, the 6S looks dated (arguably the 7 and 8 too, but that's a discussion for another day), and the SE looks prehistoric.

Nobody said you couldn't discuss it. The problem is when you can't look outside of your own opinion and see the facts that disagree with your opinion. Case in point, you think the SE looks prehistoric but obviously millions of people don't feel that way, hence the leading phone in the UK. You want them to drop a phone that has proven to be one of the most successful designs in years. It just doesn't make sense for them to do that.

I repeat - criticising some actions of a company does not mean that you "don't like" that company.

I still feel you are not looking at this from the point of view of the customer. Maybe you can explain in simple words that even I can understand why it would be bad for Apple to update the SE, 6S, etc to be more modern and competitive with other handsets available for a similar price? Wouldn't that be a good thing for customers?

Im clearly looking at it from the point of the customer, thats where I got my figures that disagree with your claims. The customers have spoken and it shows by Apples market share and the huge success of their products, especially the SE. What more does the iPhone need that you think its missing? It handles every single aspect of iOS 11 and does so quite well. Until they change iOS' limitations, what more does the hardware need to add? But even with these limitations, Apple is thriving.

Put the 6S camera up against the OnePlus 5t, Huawei Mate 9, any of the Motorolas, the LG G6, and tell me that it doesn't compete and in many cases beat out those devices. Compare battery life with those phones (besides the mate 9) and tell me it doesn't compete. Compare reliability and usage against those phones and it still competes. What more do you want from a 3 year old device? Then put the level of service and support that comes with the 6S versus any other brand out there and tell me it doesn't deserve the price tag it commands and easily sells for today.

 

[Ken Magel]

Yes, Apple's prices and margins are higher than nearly all the rest of the industry. However, you get much more than just the device for that price. You get a coherent (mostly) environment, a concern for user privacy, regular security updates, usually high quality construction of the device, and better than average service.