1. pappy53's Avatar

    There are definitely times and places for a Mac, however for typical use at home, and those that know nothing or want to know nothing about their hardware can do nicely with them, however those that do know a little bit about hardware, the quality of their hardware and want good value for their performance, the PC is the better bet. It all depends on you.
    That is your opinion, but don't group all Mac users as someone who doesn't know about hardware.
    10-16-2014 12:32 PM
  2. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    I did too, but it is hard to keep track of them all, I have stuff on Dropbox, Google Drive, and OneDrive, but OneDrive is integrated throughout PCs so I naturally go for the service that is native. Plus it integrates into Office 2013, which means documents are automatically saved on there, so I can edit them through the Office app on my phone, a critical feature for a college student such as myself.
    I do the same easily with Apple's iWork documents that save automatically to iCloud and can be accessed on my phone. And if I wanted to pay for Office for the Mac and my iPhone, I could do the same with OneDrive rather than iCloud Drive.

    I'm glad that those features work well for you. But they are by no means unique to a Windows/Office environment. The same can be done with a Chromebook and the Google Docs apps if someone wanted to.
    10-16-2014 12:34 PM
  3. Derek Batchelor's Avatar
    What company isn't in business to make as much money as they can? No one is forcing anyone to do anything. IMO, Apple offers a better product, and that quality is worth a premium to me.
    The problem here though is choice. You can choose from a very select few devices. You can't go outside that for different features, different looks nothing. If you want to customize any hardware inside your device after purchase, you cannot. Should you say see another manufacturers computer and say "That's what I want because..." (and there are many out there with the same or better features as an Apple), you can't change because you can't put Apple's OS onto it, which means that you have to repurchase everything. Now, it's not so bad with the computer, but when you get into the Mobile space it's brutal.
    10-16-2014 12:35 PM
  4. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    I had a Vista computer, never had any issues besides dealing with IE.
    You were very lucky then. Vista before SP 1 was well known to be lacking drivers.
    10-16-2014 12:35 PM
  5. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    That is your opinion, but don't group all Mac users as someone who doesn't know about hardware.
    Yep. As I said I know lots about hardware. And frequently help family members with Windows PCs with their hardware because they know nothing about it. The vast majority of PC users regardless of OS know nothing about the hardware or software that runs on it.
    10-16-2014 12:37 PM
  6. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    The problem here though is choice. You can choose from a very select few devices. You can't go outside that for different features, different looks nothing. If you want to customize any hardware inside your device after purchase, you cannot. Should you say see another manufacturers computer and say "That's what I want because..." (and there are many out there with the same or better features as an Apple), you can't change because you can't put Apple's OS onto it, which means that you have to repurchase everything. Now, it's not so bad with the computer, but when you get into the Mobile space it's brutal.
    There is plenty of choice. If you don't like Apple products, then choose not to buy them. Simple as that. And I (despite my knowledge of computer hardware and software) will continue to choose to buy Apple products. Someone else might choose to only use a Chromebook. And yet someone else might choose to have no PC and only use some variety of smartphone.
    The computing industry has plenty of choices for everyone.
    joemd60 likes this.
    10-16-2014 12:43 PM
  7. HankAZ's Avatar
    The problem here though is choice. You can choose from a very select few devices. You can't go outside that for different features, different looks nothing. If you want to customize any hardware inside your device after purchase, you cannot. Should you say see another manufacturers computer and say "That's what I want because..." (and there are many out there with the same or better features as an Apple), you can't change because you can't put Apple's OS onto it, which means that you have to repurchase everything. Now, it's not so bad with the computer, but when you get into the Mobile space it's brutal.
    And, again, you are entitled to your opinion. But I’ve been there, and done that. BlackBerry, Windows Phone and Android mobile; Windows and Linux computers. I use Apple. Because I want to.
    10-16-2014 12:53 PM
  8. Derek Batchelor's Avatar
    There is plenty of choice. If you don't like Apple products, then choose not to buy them. Simple as that. And I (despite my knowledge of computer hardware and software) will continue to choose to buy Apple products. Someone else might choose to only use a Chromebook. And yet someone else might choose to have no PC and only use some variety of smartphone.
    The computing industry has plenty of choices for everyone.
    As much as I hate to say it, you are completely wrong with this point. If I like Windows, I can buy: Acer, HP, Dell, Falcon NW, Alienware and a plethora of different manufacturers. I can buy different branded components (Ram, Power supply, cpu, motherboard ect...) at my own discretion. With Apple you can buy...well Apple. That means as a Mac user, you have chosen to have no choice.

    For example, if I enjoy playing a specific game and I'm using an Apple computer. I've enjoyed that game for a couple of years, and I want to keep my game and my game's data. My Apple dies of unknown causes or goes obsolete. I can't purchase another manufacturers product and expect my game to run. Now, if you are a Windows users, you can. I could have a Dell machine and decide that that HP looks like it is a better bang for the buck. I can go buy that, load the same game I had before, restore the game data and continue as if nothing happens.

    There's a reason why Apple hardware costs more for the less. It's because there is no competition in the hardware space for their product. If you want to use osx, you have to buy Apple hardware. If you want to use Windows, you can use any hardware, even Apple's if you want. Even worse in the mobile space, if I like Android, I can choose from probably 100 different smartphones. Each one has it's strengths and weaknesses and I can choose what I want for what purpose. When it's time to upgrade, I can pick any of those Android devices and all apps that I have purchased I'm free to use. With Apple, you have 2. iPhone 6 and 6+. If I want to change to a (for arguments sake) an Android device, I have to repurchase all my apps. That's where the lack of choice is.

    I have no problem with Apple's operating system. It looks nice and it does seem easy to use. The only drawback to the OS is compatibility issues with software. What I hate about it that it allows me no choices as far as the actual computer is concerned. It doesn't allow me to simply open it up and install an upgrade. It's far too expensive to get hardware that was outdated last year. This is why the reference to hardware knowledge. If you have good knowledge of the components of your pc and how much they cost, you will realize that Apple is about 2-2.5x the cost of a Windows based machine (if the same or similar hardware is installed).
    10-16-2014 01:15 PM
  9. finn5975's Avatar
    ^^^^^LOL this guy/gal makes for great entertainment.
    10-16-2014 01:23 PM
  10. Derek Batchelor's Avatar
    And, again, you are entitled to your opinion. But I’ve been there, and done that. BlackBerry, Windows Phone and Android mobile; Windows and Linux computers. I use Apple. Because I want to.
    You are absolutely right with Blackberry. They had the best devices at the time, but sat on their laurels, failed to innovate, got ideas stolen and got demolished (and rightly so) by Apple and Android. They had no 'hook' like Apples iTunes, or Google Play. Even with the most secure operating system (which generally people don't care about), they lost. They deserved what they got.

    There's nothing wrong with wanting to use Apple, nor did I ever say there was anything wrong with osx. If you wanted to buy another manufacturers hardware because you can get better value, you cannot, and that's where the problem is. That lack of hardware competition leads you to pay a substantial price increase for your device.
    10-16-2014 01:27 PM
  11. Derek Batchelor's Avatar
    ^^^^^LOL this guy/gal makes for great entertainment.
    It's more entertaining to read the Apple Fanbois lack of intelligent replies like this one. Nobody has given a single answer other than 'I like Apple' to my questions or posts. I keep trying to figure out why Apple users are so loyal, but yet, not one has been able to give a response other than 'I like Apple' and 'I don't care that I pay more because I like Apple'.

    So go on. Give me one single good argument to make me purchase a Apple MacBook Pro 15.4" Intel Core i7 2.2GHz for $2100 over Dell Inspiron 17.3" Laptop - Silver (Intel Core i7-4510U) for $750.00 at the same store? When doing so, please refrain from "because I like Apple's OS" or any similar remarks.
    10-16-2014 01:38 PM
  12. finn5975's Avatar
    I don't care what you buy. I did it because my MacBook is faster, handles things more efficiently, is lighter, more portable, much better battery life, never had a virus, no popups, much better speakers, higher quality display, better graphic performance, gets free software updates, which leads to longer support, longer overall usage due to it still running extremely well, no putrid windows 8, etc. Money is not of issue to me so spending extra money to finally have a well built, well supported, premium device that is actually reliable is a no brainer. You're welcome.
    ladyc0524 and jugghead62 like this.
    10-16-2014 02:24 PM
  13. cardfan's Avatar
    It's more entertaining to read the Apple Fanbois lack of intelligent replies like this one. Nobody has given a single answer other than 'I like Apple' to my questions or posts. I keep trying to figure out why Apple users are so loyal, but yet, not one has been able to give a response other than 'I like Apple' and 'I don't care that I pay more because I like Apple'.

    So go on. Give me one single good argument to make me purchase a Apple MacBook Pro 15.4" Intel Core i7 2.2GHz for $2100 over Dell Inspiron 17.3" Laptop - Silver (Intel Core i7-4510U) for $750.00 at the same store? When doing so, please refrain from "because I like Apple's OS" or any similar remarks.
    I bought a MBP retina because I like the trackpad and seamless integration of iOS into it. I can run windows as well. On laptops, I'm sold with Apple.

    On desktops? It's about power and graphics and windows has kept winning here for me. But today i saw the retina iMac and that has me interested. I need to see some benchmarks and see if the processor and graphics are enough for me. Hopefully it is, as I really like the MBP.
    10-16-2014 02:37 PM
  14. Derek Batchelor's Avatar
    You're welcome for what? Advising me to waste my money on a device that doesn't work as well? Reliability...I guess you got me there oh wait, my last pc was on my desk for 9 years (I'm to this day still using the case). An Apple is no more reliable than a PC. The only difference there is that I can service my own if I want/need to. You cannot.

    Oh, free updates? Really? That's a feature? That's pretty rich. Microsoft Windows operating systems are generally around for 12-15 years, and are updated freely for the entire duration of their existence. I'm really not sure how this is any different.

    Oh and by the way, Windows 8.1 is actually an extraordinary operating system. It's probably 2x more efficient than iOS AND will run on any hardware. I promise you that if you are playing a game on your MacBook and I'm on my machine, I'll get at least 2 and probably 3x your frame rate and I promise that you paid at least $1000.00 more than I did. (I know people that play the same game as me on a new Mac...they have to reduce their settings and they still do not compare).

    More and more you seem like a person who cannot see the forest for the trees. You have not provided a single shred of evidence that your MacBook will out perform a PC (including your precious battery). Please review the following article:

    Apple MacBook Pro 2013 vs Dell XPS 15 2013 | News | TechRadar

    and for 2014:

    MacBook Pro 15in v Dell XPS 15 head-to-head review | 9 | IT PRO

    In both cases the Dell outperformed the MacBook in Battery life, weight and graphics. Oh, and Dell is by no means a premium manufacturer. There's better out there which will easily beat the Dell's. Apple is middle of the road at best for a premium price.
    10-16-2014 02:40 PM
  15. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    You're welcome for what? Advising me to waste my money on a device that doesn't work as well? Reliability...I guess you got me there oh wait, my last pc was on my desk for 9 years (I'm to this day still using the case). An Apple is no more reliable than a PC. The only difference there is that I can service my own if I want/need to. You cannot.

    Oh, free updates? Really? That's a feature? That's pretty rich. Microsoft Windows operating systems are generally around for 12-15 years, and are updated freely for the entire duration of their existence. I'm really not sure how this is any different.

    Oh and by the way, Windows 8.1 is actually an extraordinary operating system. It's probably 2x more efficient than iOS AND will run on any hardware. I promise you that if you are playing a game on your MacBook and I'm on my machine, I'll get at least 2 and probably 3x your frame rate and I promise that you paid at least $1000.00 more than I did. (I know people that play the same game as me on a new Mac...they have to reduce their settings and they still do not compare).

    More and more you seem like a person who cannot see the forest for the trees. You have not provided a single shred of evidence that your MacBook will out perform a PC (including your precious battery). Please review the following article:

    Apple MacBook Pro 2013 vs Dell XPS 15 2013 | News | TechRadar

    and for 2014:

    MacBook Pro 15in v Dell XPS 15 head-to-head review | 9 | IT PRO

    In both cases the Dell outperformed the MacBook in Battery life, weight and graphics. Oh, and Dell is by no means a premium manufacturer. There's better out there which will easily beat the Dell's. Apple is middle of the road at best for a premium price.
    We are NOT advising you to buy anything. We DON'T care what PC you buy or what you spend you money on. It's your money and your PC, so why should I care? I don't care if you think in wasting my money on Apple products. Because you know what? I spend my money how I see fit after weighing the pros and cons of the variety of products that may meet my needs. And I don't need crowd validation of my choices.
    joemd60, ladyc0524 and mikeo007 like this.
    10-16-2014 02:55 PM
  16. Derek Batchelor's Avatar
    I bought a MBP retina because I like the trackpad and seamless integration of iOS into it. I can run windows as well. On laptops, I'm sold with Apple.

    On desktops? It's about power and graphics and windows has kept winning here for me. But today i saw the retina iMac and that has me interested. I need to see some benchmarks and see if the processor and graphics are enough for me. Hopefully it is, as I really like the MBP.
    Thank-you. That's the first answer that has made some sense. If the track-pad is vastly superior to other devices, that's definitely a big plus. How does it compare against the touch-screens that are out there?

    Oh, I do know people install Windows to MacBooks, but doesn't that defeat the primary purpose of buying a Mac?
    10-16-2014 02:56 PM
  17. HankAZ's Avatar
    It's more entertaining to read the Apple Fanbois lack of intelligent replies like this one. Nobody has given a single answer other than 'I like Apple' to my questions or posts. I keep trying to figure out why Apple users are so loyal, but yet, not one has been able to give a response other than 'I like Apple' and 'I don't care that I pay more because I like Apple'.

    So go on. Give me one single good argument to make me purchase a Apple MacBook Pro 15.4" Intel Core i7 2.2GHz for $2100 over Dell Inspiron 17.3" Laptop - Silver (Intel Core i7-4510U) for $750.00 at the same store? When doing so, please refrain from "because I like Apple's OS" or any similar remarks.
    You realize that this thread is about preferences and opinions, right? Your continued rants are not going to change anyone's mind. And because these are opinions and preferences, yours are no more correct or incorrect than mine or anyone else's.

    All you are doing is standing up and screaming "I'm an Apple basher". And I would imaging that profession was not necessary after your first or second post in this thread. SMH.
    mikeo007 and jugghead62 like this.
    10-16-2014 02:58 PM
  18. HankAZ's Avatar
    You're welcome for what? Advising me to waste my money on a device that doesn't work as well? Reliability...I guess you got me there oh wait, my last pc was on my desk for 9 years (I'm to this day still using the case). An Apple is no more reliable than a PC. The only difference there is that I can service my own if I want/need to. You cannot.

    Oh, free updates? Really? That's a feature? That's pretty rich. Microsoft Windows operating systems are generally around for 12-15 years, and are updated freely for the entire duration of their existence. I'm really not sure how this is any different.

    Oh and by the way, Windows 8.1 is actually an extraordinary operating system. It's probably 2x more efficient than iOS AND will run on any hardware. I promise you that if you are playing a game on your MacBook and I'm on my machine, I'll get at least 2 and probably 3x your frame rate and I promise that you paid at least $1000.00 more than I did. (I know people that play the same game as me on a new Mac...they have to reduce their settings and they still do not compare).

    More and more you seem like a person who cannot see the forest for the trees. You have not provided a single shred of evidence that your MacBook will out perform a PC (including your precious battery). Please review the following article:

    Apple MacBook Pro 2013 vs Dell XPS 15 2013 | News | TechRadar

    and for 2014:

    MacBook Pro 15in v Dell XPS 15 head-to-head review | 9 | IT PRO

    In both cases the Dell outperformed the MacBook in Battery life, weight and graphics. Oh, and Dell is by no means a premium manufacturer. There's better out there which will easily beat the Dell's. Apple is middle of the road at best for a premium price.
    Again, it’s your opinion. You are welcome to hold that viewpoint. For you, it might be the best decision. For many others, it simply is not. Stop embarrassing yourself.
    10-16-2014 02:59 PM
  19. cardfan's Avatar
    You're welcome for what? Advising me to waste my money on a device that doesn't work as well? Reliability...I guess you got me there oh wait, my last pc was on my desk for 9 years (I'm to this day still using the case). An Apple is no more reliable than a PC. The only difference there is that I can service my own if I want/need to. You cannot.

    Oh, free updates? Really? That's a feature? That's pretty rich. Microsoft Windows operating systems are generally around for 12-15 years, and are updated freely for the entire duration of their existence. I'm really not sure how this is any different.

    Oh and by the way, Windows 8.1 is actually an extraordinary operating system. It's probably 2x more efficient than iOS AND will run on any hardware. I promise you that if you are playing a game on your MacBook and I'm on my machine, I'll get at least 2 and probably 3x your frame rate and I promise that you paid at least $1000.00 more than I did. (I know people that play the same game as me on a new Mac...they have to reduce their settings and they still do not compare).

    More and more you seem like a person who cannot see the forest for the trees. You have not provided a single shred of evidence that your MacBook will out perform a PC (including your precious battery). Please review the following article:

    Apple MacBook Pro 2013 vs Dell XPS 15 2013 | News | TechRadar

    and for 2014:

    MacBook Pro 15in v Dell XPS 15 head-to-head review | 9 | IT PRO

    In both cases the Dell outperformed the MacBook in Battery life, weight and graphics. Oh, and Dell is by no means a premium manufacturer. There's better out there which will easily beat the Dell's. Apple is middle of the road at best for a premium price.
    I don't doubt some of what you claim. It's about ecosystem for me. iOS 8 and Yosemite combine to give me what I want. DId I mention the superior trackpad on a MBP? And hey, it runs windows..

    I don't really resell computers because frankly it's too hard to resell PC's where it's worth the time. But the MBP has resell value and you can recoup some of the apple tax that way.
    10-16-2014 03:01 PM
  20. cardfan's Avatar
    Thank-you. That's the first answer that has made some sense. If the track-pad is vastly superior to other devices, that's definitely a big plus. How does it compare against the touch-screens that are out there?

    Oh, I do know people install Windows to MacBooks, but doesn't that defeat the primary purpose of buying a Mac?
    Sometimes you have to have certain windows only programs on it. There's a few must haves for me, mostly work related. One is a game though. The thought of touching and mucking up my laptop screen isn't appealing..
    10-16-2014 03:03 PM
  21. Derek Batchelor's Avatar
    I don't doubt some of what you claim. It's about ecosystem for me. iOS 8 and Yosemite combine to give me what I want. DId I mention the superior trackpad on a MBP? And hey, it runs windows..

    I don't really resell computers because frankly it's too hard to resell PC's where it's worth the time. But the MBP has resell value and you can recoup some of the apple tax that way.
    That's the thing though, what exactly does iOS 8 and Yosemite do that makes you shrug the performance loss? The ingegration that I get between Android and Windows 8.1 is quite good. The integration that I've seen between a Surface tablet and a Win 8.1 desktop/laptop is flawless.

    I can understand the touch screen thing. Fingerprints most definitely suck.

    Again, it’s your opinion. You are welcome to hold that viewpoint. For you, it might be the best decision. For many others, it simply is not. Stop embarrassing yourself.
    To all that are providing answers like this, you are doing a great job at debating why you prefer Mac to PC. So far only one of you have provided any substance to the debate that this thread should have. Not only that, but people have flat out insulted me, denied posts which I have provided facts for. While that is your choice (as well as using Apple is your choice!!!), you certainly don't do a good job at representing the brand that you are so loyal to. It's interesting to see to be honest. I would also like to thank you all for your entertainment on this otherwise boring afternoon of code writing.

    That being said, to respond to your post, Frank, performance and benchmarks are not opinion, they are fact. The premium price that you pay for Apple is not an opinion, that is again a fact. The debate here is why you are willing to pay that much more (remember, my pc? Cost me $1300 to build, same value from Apple is a MacPro at $3100, which is a gigantic premium). What I'm trying to find out is why you are willing to fork out $1,800 for a similar device? Not to mention you cannot modify it's components in anyway.

    As you can see, cardfan is providing an insight into why they prefer to use a MacBook and they make sense (although for me personally, they are not strong enough reasons to switch device types.
    10-16-2014 03:25 PM
  22. Derek Batchelor's Avatar
    We are NOT advising you to buy anything. We DON'T care what PC you buy or what you spend you money on. It's your money and your PC, so why should I care? I don't care if you think in wasting my money on Apple products. Because you know what? I spend my money how I see fit after weighing the pros and cons of the variety of products that may meet my needs. And I don't need crowd validation of my choices.
    Actually, this topic seems to be about a debate between MAC and PC. I've provided my view point as to why a PC is better than a MAC. Nobody yet (with the exception of cardfan) has provided any real insight as to why a MAC is better than a PC. I was insulted by the Mac supporters a few times before I broke a little bit and fired an insult back.

    If people are going to post in a thread debating which is better, then wouldn't it be best to...you know...post reasons, especially when challenged by somebody that obviously prefers the Windows environment?
    10-16-2014 03:27 PM
  23. Beyond Fire's Avatar
    Actually this topic was about preference until you came in here acting like a typical PC elitist. Everyone here was stating reasons why they PREFER one platform over another, not about which is better and not about trying to convert other people to use their preferred platform.
    Last edited by Beyond Fire; 10-16-2014 at 04:07 PM. Reason: typo
    ladyc0524 and jugghead62 like this.
    10-16-2014 03:53 PM
  24. HankAZ's Avatar
    To all that are providing answers like this, you are doing a great job at debating why you prefer Mac to PC. So far only one of you have provided any substance to the debate that this thread should have. Not only that, but people have flat out insulted me, denied posts which I have provided facts for. While that is your choice (as well as using Apple is your choice!!!), you certainly don't do a good job at representing the brand that you are so loyal to. It's interesting to see to be honest. I would also like to thank you all for your entertainment on this otherwise boring afternoon of code writing.
    If you had bothered to read the posts in this thread, you would have seen that many (most) of us have already posted why we prefer Mac/OS X over the Windows platform. But instead, you came in here trying to convert us all.
    10-16-2014 04:07 PM
  25. pappy53's Avatar
    10-16-2014 04:13 PM
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