Epic fail running a 10K with my Watch and Runtastic

BBerryPowerUser

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I'm a multisport Race Director and an Ironman Triathlete. I think smart technology for endurance sports (Running, Cycling, Swimming) is one of the greatest things to happen for endurance athletes. However, I do have issues with athletes that want to argue with me about their finish times. They tend to take their watches and iPhone running apps as Gospel, and they want to know why the chip timing system is off by a second or two VS their personal timing device.

That's not accurate. The question they should be asking is why are their smart watches and apps off by a second or two. Professional chip timing systems cost tens of thousands of dollars (and I know this first hand) and they are accurate to one thousandth of a second. That 0.000. They link to satellites for GPS precision time accuracy and there is never a question of accuracy IF the chip is read. My particular system is used by the Olympic Committee for Olympic timing, so I would not question the accuracy.

Where these personal systems come in handy is for training, and for competition when the timing system fails, usually for a missed chip read. Even the best systems do not guarantee 100 percent chip read accuracy. Sometimes chips are missed by the transponder decoders, sometimes the chips themselves in bibs or on ankles go bad and do not transmit, sometimes you can accidentally block these chips with body parts or with clothing if you wear heavy clothing over your BIB or Ankle Chip. It's nice to have a backup just in the very very rare instance that your chip is not read. I've seen missed chip reads mostly from athletes crossing the finish line, crossing their arms over their BIB numbers (and thus the chips as timing chips for runners are usually attached to the back of BIB numbers). They cross their arms over the BIB to shut off their smart watches. By doing so, the arm blocks the chip read about 1 or 2 percent of the time. That's one or two chip reads out of 100 being blocked by covering the chip with a body part.

Most Race Companies use HD Video on the finish line synced to the race clock to reconstruct a time if the timing system failed to get a read on an athlete chip. It's one of the reasons I plead with athletes to wear their BIB on the OUTSIDE and ON THE FRONT so the camera can see the bib as they cross. Murphy's law, if they do this, their chip will read right 100 percent of the time. If they wear the BIB on their back, they are temping fate and Murphy and his law will crawl out of the cave to rain on their timing parade, making it tough for a Timer to reconstruct the time for the athlete since he has no idea who the person in the video is, since they do not show a BIB number.

As an athlete, I use Runtastic, Mapmyrun, and a few others for my training. Race day, I rely on a GPS watch and the chip timing system of the race company.
 

eyecrispy

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I'm a multisport Race Director and an Ironman Triathlete. I think smart technology for endurance sports (Running, Cycling, Swimming) is one of the greatest things to happen for endurance athletes. However, I do have issues with athletes that want to argue with me about their finish times. They tend to take their watches and iPhone running apps as Gospel, and they want to know why the chip timing system is off by a second or two VS their personal timing device.

That's not accurate. The question they should be asking is why are their smart watches and apps off by a second or two. Professional chip timing systems cost tens of thousands of dollars (and I know this first hand) and they are accurate to one thousandth of a second. That 0.000. They link to satellites for GPS precision time accuracy and there is never a question of accuracy IF the chip is read. My particular system is used by the Olympic Committee for Olympic timing, so I would not question the accuracy.

Where these personal systems come in handy is for training, and for competition when the timing system fails, usually for a missed chip read. Even the best systems do not guarantee 100 percent chip read accuracy. Sometimes chips are missed by the transponder decoders, sometimes the chips themselves in bibs or on ankles go bad and do not transmit, sometimes you can accidentally block these chips with body parts or with clothing if you wear heavy clothing over your BIB or Ankle Chip. It's nice to have a backup just in the very very rare instance that your chip is not read. I've seen missed chip reads mostly from athletes crossing the finish line, crossing their arms over their BIB numbers (and thus the chips as timing chips for runners are usually attached to the back of BIB numbers). They cross their arms over the BIB to shut off their smart watches. By doing so, the arm blocks the chip read about 1 or 2 percent of the time. That's one or two chip reads out of 100 being blocked by covering the chip with a body part.

Most Race Companies use HD Video on the finish line synced to the race clock to reconstruct a time if the timing system failed to get a read on an athlete chip. It's one of the reasons I plead with athletes to wear their BIB on the OUTSIDE and ON THE FRONT so the camera can see the bib as they cross. Murphy's law, if they do this, their chip will read right 100 percent of the time. If they wear the BIB on their back, they are temping fate and Murphy and his law will crawl out of the cave to rain on their timing parade, making it tough for a Timer to reconstruct the time for the athlete since he has no idea who the person in the video is, since they do not show a BIB number.

As an athlete, I use Runtastic, Mapmyrun, and a few others for my training. Race day, I rely on a GPS watch and the chip timing system of the race company.

Thanks for your insight. I always rely on the official times published by the race coordinators, but it's nice to have something like Runtastic, RunKeeper, etc to pace myself during the race.

My problem is never with the official chip time. I just wish that the running apps don't keep crashing during activities. Have you had Runtastic crash on your Apple Watch? I'm assuming you have an AW, but maybe you don't.
 

eyecrispy

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To add.

I have tried to use the native exercise app on the watch and it's crashed on me a few times.

So now l just use Strava exclusively and the native Activity app for counting everything else throughout the day. Perfect match for me.

I've never had the native app crash on me. Would be a shame if it did.
 

BBerryPowerUser

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Thanks for your insight. I always rely on the official times published by the race coordinators, but it's nice to have something like Runtastic, RunKeeper, etc to pace myself during the race.

My problem is never with the official chip time. I just wish that the running apps don't keep crashing during activities. Have you had Runtastic crash on your Apple Watch? I'm assuming you have an AW, but maybe you don't.

Yes, I have had Runtastic crash on me. It's not all the time, but I think two or three times in the last year. I run five days a week, about 3 miles a day, just short of a 5k. I'm not sure WHY it crashed when it did.

When I compete, I always have Runtastic running in the background so I can get my time regardless. I no longer compete for placement like I did when I was trying to get to Ironman Kona by qualifying. During Triathlon, I obviously do not have anything in the water, just on the Bike and Run disciplines. If it's just a 1/2 Marathon or a 10k, I rarely even look at the Race Clock any longer. I just rely on my personal timing, mostly because it's no longer a "qualifying" time I'm aiming for.
 

tcuprof

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To add.

I have tried to use the native exercise app on the watch and it's crashed on me a few times.

So now l just use Strava exclusively and the native Activity app for counting everything else throughout the day. Perfect match for me.

In hundreds of workouts (running and lifting), the native Activity app has never crashed.

Can you tell me what Strava would give me that the Activity app doesn't?
 

Lefty724

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In hundreds of workouts (running and lifting), the native Activity app has never crashed.

Can you tell me what Strava would give me that the Activity app doesn't?

Strava doesn't do steps etc....

It does time everything you do. If you're competitive with yourself and want to get stronger/faster Strava is key imo.

It times every trail you ride/run for you. Here are a few things that it offers you over the Activity app:

-Lets you follow other athletes
-Athletes can follow you
-You can see who is/was the fastest on a certain trail
-You can see each trail time every ride/run
-If you beat your own time on a certain trail, it'll give you a PR (personal best)
-Gives you personal 1st, 2nd and 3rd best times.
-Tracks routes to share or follow
-Each park is individually marked per park. I ride and run Fort Ord Ca
-Tethered with the watch, it tracks your heart rate and calories burned. Not new but very nice to have.

So basically, it just lets you follow/be followed by others and tracks lol.

It has certainly taken my training to the next level.
 

eyecrispy

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Strava doesn't do steps etc....

It does time everything you do. If you're competitive with yourself and want to get stronger/faster Strava is key imo.

It times every trail you ride/run for you. Here are a few things that it offers you over the Activity app:

-Lets you follow other athletes
-Athletes can follow you
-You can see who is/was the fastest on a certain trail
-You can see each trail time every ride/run
-If you beat your own time on a certain trail, it'll give you a PR (personal best)
-Gives you personal 1st, 2nd and 3rd best times.
-Tracks routes to share or follow
-Each park is individually marked per park. I ride and run Fort Ord Ca
-Tethered with the watch, it tracks your heart rate and calories burned. Not new but very nice to have.

So basically, it just lets you follow/be followed by others and tracks lol.

It has certainly taken my training to the next level.

Does it handle road runs as well? I don't run trails.
 

eyecrispy

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Absolutely!

Most of my friends only run on the road.

Ok, so I finally got out and did a 4 miler this morning using Strava. I launched it from my phone and started the work out. When I brought up the AW interface, I was stuck on a screen where nothing appeared to be moving and units were in km (but I had set it to miles in settings). I just let it go and continued my run, thinking maybe Strava AW interface was just as messed up as RK and Runtastic, but happy that at least the app didn't crash and kill my workout tracking on the phone.

After the workout, I realized that I was on the wrong screen (I think) so now I'm kicking myself for now playing around with the AW interface prior to starting my run to familiarize myself.

I will try to get out again this weekend but I like the Strava app so far. It gets me what I need. If it can stay up and running, I'll keep using it. Thanks for the tip.
 

mstacheef

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I've tried pretty much all of the running apps for Apple Watch, and I have yet to find one that's always bug free, but I do find that if I reset both the watch and the phone before each run, they tend to run better. Helps to clear out the cache and all that. Also, I still find that Endomondo is the most accurate and bug free of them all, including Runkeeper, but it doesn't have real support for OS2 so there's no heartrate support and no complication. I do think its the best of them all though.
 

eyecrispy

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I've tried pretty much all of the running apps for Apple Watch, and I have yet to find one that's always bug free, but I do find that if I reset both the watch and the phone before each run, they tend to run better. Helps to clear out the cache and all that. Also, I still find that Endomondo is the most accurate and bug free of them all, including Runkeeper, but it doesn't have real support for OS2 so there's no heartrate support and no complication. I do think its the best of them all though.

I forgot about Endomondo. Used to use that all the time until I found runkeeper. May have to give that a go. Gonna give Strava a fair shake too. I have read that Endomondo AW crashed a lot ... at least end of last year. Maybe they've addressed it since then.
 

mfm77

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Tomorrow morning, I'm going out running and will test each app (Runkeeper, Strava, Runtastic, and the Activity app) out for a mile or so. I'll report back my experiences with each.
 

eyecrispy

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Tomorrow morning, I'm going out running and will test each app (Runkeeper, Strava, Runtastic, and the Activity app) out for a mile or so. I'll report back my experiences with each.

Looking forward to your results.
 

Lefty724

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Great. I hope you like Strava, I love it.

What I do, is just launch Strava from my phone and then while I'm warming up (walking), I'll do to Strava on my AW.

It'll look like the watch is doing something (dots left to right), but once you tap on that screen it'll go to your info screen.

If I do this, once the watch times out, just turn your wrist and it'll go back to this screen automatically.

I found that if I launch Strava from my watch it'll go back to the home watch screen once it times out. However, there will be a little exercise icon at the top indicating its recording.

Another tip: I use the auto pause setting on the phone. My AW does not do auto pause, so if you stop to take a break or talk to someone, your pace time will go up, but the watch will auto pause on its own. Cool feature.
 

svene90

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FYI runtastic and other apps have problems with HF since watchOS 2.2. runtastic for example stops working completly after a few minutes. Runtastic offers a new update (6.8) yesterday and i hope they fixed the problem.
 

eyecrispy

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FYI runtastic and other apps have problems with HF since watchOS 2.2. runtastic for example stops working completly after a few minutes. Runtastic offers a new update (6.8) yesterday and i hope they fixed the problem.

What is HF?
 

mfm77

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This morning, I took advantage of the abundant sunshine and tested out several Watch running apps, running one mile per app (with one exception - Strava was twice). Just for comparison, I brought my aging-but-still-functioning Microsoft Band 1 along, since it has built-in GPS.

The apps I tested, in order:
Apple Activity app - The app opened, began the run, ended the run, and saved the stats, all very quickly. The pace and distance were just about spot on with my Band. While it might have a simpler interface than the other apps, it works very well.
Strava (first time) - This was an absolute cluster because I opened the app on the Watch and not on my iPhone (more on that later). As a result, the app did not give me real-time tracking and had a lot of trouble finishing and saving my stats.
Runkeeper - I was very pleasantly surprised at how fast this app grabbed location and other info from my iPhone. There was next to no lag time, and it measured a mile at about the exact time my Band did.
Runtastic - Ah, the app that began this thread in the first place. I decided to give it another shot, and it seemed to work better this time. While I still had a little trouble stopping and finishing the workout (I think it's a matter of improving the UI), I was satisfied with the app.
Strava (second time) - After my first disaster with the app, I decided to open it in my phone and then switch to the Watch. I initially received an error message on the Watch stating that another workout was in progress, but they eventually synced, and I was on my way. While this was a better experience, Strava still had some lag between the Watch and the phone, and noticeably more than Runkeeper and Runtastic had. The stats were pretty accurate, but I find it ridiculous that I have to start the app on my phone in order to get it to work properly. Needless to say, I don't foresee using this app too often, unless Strava improves it.
Map My Run - I'd been using Map My Run for the longest time, and even though they don't yet have a native app, I figured I'd try out their Watch app just for kicks. It's about what you'd expect from a non-native app: very simple and not much data, but fine if all you want is pace and distance.

I'll try to answer any questions that folks have about any of the apps.

My order of prefererence: Runkeeper, Apple Activity, Runtastic, Map My Run, and Strava (due to having to start the app from my phone).

Now that Under Armour owns Map My Run and Endomondo, I imagine they are both are working on their own native apps. I hope so because I'd love a Map My Run native app.
 

eyecrispy

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This morning, I took advantage of the abundant sunshine and tested out several Watch running apps, running one mile per app (with one exception - Strava was twice). Just for comparison, I brought my aging-but-still-functioning Microsoft Band 1 along, since it has built-in GPS.

The apps I tested, in order:
Apple Activity app - The app opened, began the run, ended the run, and saved the stats, all very quickly. The pace and distance were just about spot on with my Band. While it might have a simpler interface than the other apps, it works very well.
Strava (first time) - This was an absolute cluster because I opened the app on the Watch and not on my iPhone (more on that later). As a result, the app did not give me real-time tracking and had a lot of trouble finishing and saving my stats.
Runkeeper - I was very pleasantly surprised at how fast this app grabbed location and other info from my iPhone. There was next to no lag time, and it measured a mile at about the exact time my Band did.
Runtastic - Ah, the app that began this thread in the first place. I decided to give it another shot, and it seemed to work better this time. While I still had a little trouble stopping and finishing the workout (I think it's a matter of improving the UI), I was satisfied with the app.
Strava (second time) - After my first disaster with the app, I decided to open it in my phone and then switch to the Watch. I initially received an error message on the Watch stating that another workout was in progress, but they eventually synced, and I was on my way. While this was a better experience, Strava still had some lag between the Watch and the phone, and noticeably more than Runkeeper and Runtastic had. The stats were pretty accurate, but I find it ridiculous that I have to start the app on my phone in order to get it to work properly. Needless to say, I don't foresee using this app too often, unless Strava improves it.
Map My Run - I'd been using Map My Run for the longest time, and even though they don't yet have a native app, I figured I'd try out their Watch app just for kicks. It's about what you'd expect from a non-native app: very simple and not much data, but fine if all you want is pace and distance.

I'll try to answer any questions that folks have about any of the apps.

My order of prefererence: Runkeeper, Apple Activity, Runtastic, Map My Run, and Strava (due to having to start the app from my phone).

Now that Under Armour owns Map My Run and Endomondo, I imagine they are both are working on their own native apps. I hope so because I'd love a Map My Run native app.

Thanks!

I would stick with RK if it hasn't crashed on me multiple times during my race last Sunday. I agree that Strava should make their app work the same way if launched from AW. The thing I don't like about the native workout app is that you don't get a map of your route for outdoor runs. And no social integration.
 

Suggs68

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Thanks!

I would stick with RK if it hasn't crashed on me multiple times during my race last Sunday. I agree that Strava should make their app work the same way if launched from AW. The thing I don't like about the native workout app is that you don't get a map of your route for outdoor runs. And no social integration.

Same here. I really want to like RK, but each version has crashed on me during runs so I'm reluctant to try updates until I see feedback. Plus, they refuse to add the capability to modify the fields you see on the watch to include both average & current pace, etc. people have been asking for that since the watch launched.
 

eyecrispy

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For now RK is out for me. Strava stays until it lets me down. I'll also try Endomondo and Nike Plus at some point.
 

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