Thoughts after first run (pt 1 & 2)

[Suggs68]

Ok, this is interesting. Did the same 5 mile loop 3 days in a row since the 1.01 update. Wednesday the workout app showed it as 4.85, yesterday it was 4.9 and today it was 4.96. If it's using the phone's GPS it shouldn't have to calibrate or anything like that, but is there any good reason why it would get more accurate like that? Is it just random? I do wish there was a way to see the GPS signal in the workout app like u can swim Endo or RK. That would help understand where the issue is.

 

[OneFretAway]

If it's using the phone's GPS it shouldn't have to calibrate or anything like that, but is there any good reason why it would get more accurate like that? Is it just random?

Interesting. I take it you were running with your phone each time? It's probably random, but you might want to consider a factory reset if your watch starts singing "Daisy" and saying things like "I'm sorry Dave. I can't do that."

 

[anon(9343851)]

Ok, this is interesting. Did the same 5 mile loop 3 days in a row since the 1.01 update. Wednesday the workout app showed it as 4.85, yesterday it was 4.9 and today it was 4.96. If it's using the phone's GPS it shouldn't have to calibrate or anything like that, but is there any good reason why it would get more accurate like that? Is it just random? I do wish there was a way to see the GPS signal in the workout app like u can swim Endo or RK. That would help understand where the issue is.

From what I've been reading, when running and walking the Watch doesn't actually use your iPhone's GPS to measure distance, only to improve its calculations based on the accelerometer. This is different from, say, cycling, where the accelerometer isn't used to measure distance, only GPS.

This could explain why your running distance estimates improved over time. I'm hoping that's what's happening, in which case perhaps 1.0.1 did fix running distance calculations after all. It would just take a few more calibrating runs for it to clear out the "wrong" calibration performed prior to the update.

I'll be running again tomorrow and will keep an eye on my distance estimates to see if they improve.

 

[Vortec 5.3]

Ok, this is interesting. Did the same 5 mile loop 3 days in a row since the 1.01 update. Wednesday the workout app showed it as 4.85, yesterday it was 4.9 and today it was 4.96. If it's using the phone's GPS it shouldn't have to calibrate or anything like that, but is there any good reason why it would get more accurate like that? Is it just random? I do wish there was a way to see the GPS signal in the workout app like u can swim Endo or RK. That would help understand where the issue is.

That's pretty dam accurate.

 

[Suggs68]

From what I've been reading, when running and walking the Watch doesn't actually use your iPhone's GPS to measure distance, only to improve its calculations based on the accelerometer. This is different from, say, cycling, where the accelerometer isn't used to measure distance, only GPS.

This could explain why your running distance estimates improved over time. I'm hoping that's what's happening, in which case perhaps 1.0.1 did fix running distance calculations after all. It would just take a few more calibrating runs for it to clear out the "wrong" calibration performed prior to the update.

I'll be running again tomorrow and will keep an eye on my distance estimates to see if they improve.

Is that confirmed, that it's NOT using GPS for running, just for supporting the accelerometer? If that's the case, it would probably explain the issue, but I would want to have true GPS accuracy for runs, especially when I'm training for a marathon. This sounds like a rather silly functional decision especially since they tout the watch for runners (Turlington blog, etc). My pace can vary pretty widely depending on the type of run I'm doing, so a GPS would be necessary to be accurate.

 

[PatrickNSF]

So I've been using the workout app for my runs since getting the Watch the Tuesday after launch. I also have a Garmin 620. I always run with my phone.

If I only wanted a watch for running I would definitely stick with Garmin at this point, and I'd wait until the 225 or inevitable 625 is released with integrated HRM. The display is better, the accuracy is better – it's just made perfectly for running.

But I've been sticking with the Apple Watch because I like the other metrics and functionality – daily calorie burn, steps, call and message notification while running. But I've noticed my distance has been erratic this week, and I've run the exact same 6 mile route for 4 days. I'm also finding pausing and resuming at street lights to be less than ideal, especially with sweaty hands. And I can make visibility getter by turning up brightness and changing the font to bold, but the Garmin display is better for running.

What I'm finding most frustrating is that for the three 17-mile bike rides I've taken since using the Watch, the mileage for those has been exactly the same for each ride. And some of the runs I've taken with the Watch seemed spot on in the first week or two, but now they're fairly erratic. I'm starting to think since I've put so much mileage in the Workout app that it's not using the Watch for GPS anymore, and just basing distance on steps/stride/etc. I have no way to know this for sure, but that's my guess.

I'm going to try some of the third party apps in the next week or so and see if those fare any better. I'm not thrilled losing the HRM data, but the mileage inconsistency has been frustrating this week.

 

[anon(9343851)]

Is that confirmed, that it's NOT using GPS for running, just for supporting the accelerometer? If that's the case, it would probably explain the issue, but I would want to have true GPS accuracy for runs, especially when I'm training for a marathon. This sounds like a rather silly functional decision especially since they tout the watch for runners (Turlington blog, etc). My pace can vary pretty widely depending on the type of run I'm doing, so a GPS would be necessary to be accurate.

Someone mentioned talking to an Apple support agent who told him that. I personally can't confirm, and I find it silly as well. But the fact that everyone I know or heard from who cycles outdoors has said the distances were always spot on without fail, added to the fact that everyone who has had issues with distance estimates has been a runner, then 1.0.1 specifically fixing running/walking distance estimates, all lead me to believe there is at least some truth to it. Now if my own workout estimates start drifting towards the correct distances after a few more runs I'll just accept that's how it works.

Additionally, Apple's own support document for calibrating the Watch's accelerometer recommends carrying your iPhone in an armband rather than in a waistband also leads me to believe that there is much more going on with the calibration process than simply linking the iPhone's GPS to the Watch's accelerometer. My walks (I carry my iPhone in my pocket then, rather than in a belt pouch) have all been spot on, both prior to 1.0.1 and after. So I think it's all related.

You'd think if the Watch relied purely on the iPhone's GPS its distance would match fitness apps while carrying the iPhone, but it's not the case.

 

[Vortec 5.3]

What about running with the phone in hand or in you're pocket? Would it be accurate then?

 

[Suggs68]

Well, after running 13 miles today with the Watch running app showing 12.7, I'm back to EndoMondo until Apple adds full GPS integration to the app. For a casual runner it's fine, but for anyone training for anything or just trying to track accurate metrics, it's basically useless. Endo was accurate to within .02 mile for very run where I used it because it relies on the phones GPS throughout the run. IMO Apple totally dropped the ball if they're trying to position the running app as a real training aid without complete GPS support.

 

[PatrickNSF]

Well, after running 13 miles today with the Watch running app showing 12.7, I'm back to EndoMondo until Apple adds full GPS integration to the app.

I agree. I used Nike+ last night for a 6 mile run and it showed 6 miles right about where my Garmin and the Watch did in the first couple of weeks. Lat week, the Watch was stopping me two long blocks past that point.

I don't know what Apple is doing with the Workout app, but it's clearly not using the phone's GPS for every run even when it has access to it. I'm planning to stick with Nike+ for the time being, despite not having HRM data.

On a positive note, I was happy to see that data is still fed into the activity rings when using a third party running app. The only strange thing I noted was that the Watch attributed more calories to my run when not using the Workout app than it does when I use it. I assume it's because it's not getting constant HR data, though I assumed that would have lowered the calorie calculation rather than increased it.

 

[anon(9343851)]

Well, after running 13 miles today with the Watch running app showing 12.7, I'm back to EndoMondo until Apple adds full GPS integration to the app. For a casual runner it's fine, but for anyone training for anything or just trying to track accurate metrics, it's basically useless. Endo was accurate to within .02 mile for very run where I used it because it relies on the phones GPS throughout the run. IMO Apple totally dropped the ball if they're trying to position the running app as a real training aid without complete GPS support.

Yeah, mine was worse this morning than before on the same course. Huge disappointment. I was hopeful until around mile 2 where it was kept oscillating tightly between -.03 and +.01, and then after mile 3 it drifted several times by big chunks at a time (an additional .05 miles within a minute, without ever self-correcting).

 

[anon(9343851)]

On a positive note, I was happy to see that data is still fed into the activity rings when using a third party running app. The only strange thing I noted was that the Watch attributed more calories to my run when not using the Workout app than it does when I use it. I assume it's because it's not getting constant HR data, though I assumed that would have lowered the calorie calculation rather than increased it.

For me at least, Workout greatly undercounts active calories compared to other fitness apps. If Nike+ writes Workout (as a data category) to your Health app, it will also attach a Calories Burned value to it. It's likely that the Activity app feeds that Workout entry into its Exercise ring, and the corresponding Calories Burned value into its Move ring.

 

[OneFretAway]

Hey guys - thanks again for posting your experiences. I cancelled my pre-order and picked up a Polar M400 yesterday. There may yet be an Apple Watch in my future, but it will most likely be version 2 or later. Just too many compromises required at this point, especially being tethered to a phone. It's a subjective thing, but I much prefer running without it. Also worried about the display visibility in bright sun, battery life, responsiveness of the watch when I pause a run, and being able to rely on a single, combined app for health tracking and running. I'm going to take the difference in price and pick up a new pairs of Asics.

I found this to be a hugely valuable discussion, and appreciated the insights (good and bad) about the watch. This is precisely the kind of feedback that will help it evolve. All the best.

 

[PatrickNSF]

If you're looking for a running watch, that's a good move...though personally I'd opt for something with a built-in HRM.

I view the Apple Watch as a smart watch with some running features. But I think everything other than built-in GPS – and maybe screen visibility in full, midday sunlight – can be handled with software updates.

 

[Suggs68]

If you're looking for a running watch, that's a good move...though personally I'd opt for something with a built-in HRM.

I view the Apple Watch as a smart watch with some running features. But I think everything other than built-in GPS ? and maybe screen visibility in full, midday sunlight ? can be handled with software updates.

Agreed, and personally i don't have a problem with the screen visibility in sunlight. I actually find the dark screen and bright colored fonts easy to read.

With Endo, it's a very capable runners watch as long as you don't mind having your phone with you, which I don't. The app has lots of tweakability. The only issue I have with it is that it takes a second or 2 for the screen to refresh when you raise your wrist, which isn't a problem with the stock running app, so hopefully that will be addressed with an update to either the app or API.

 

[PatrickNSF]

If I turn the screen brightness all the way up, and make the fonts bold, visibility is fine, though less so for some colors (especially blue). The Nike+ app is designed better for outside viewing than the Workout App.

Unfortunately, I've run with the Nike+ app the past three days and it's crashed each time mid-run. The phone app keeps going, but the watch app loses communication with the phone and fails to display any metrics. Pretty frustrating.

Just to be safe, I ran with my Garmin 620 this morning in addition to the Apple Watch and was reminded how effortless it is to run with that device. Perfect visibility, 4 data points on each screen, instant updates. I'm debating going back to it and just using the Apple Watch for non-running activity, at least until third party apps make some progress. Kind of surprised that I've come full circle on this, but...

 

[anon(9343851)]

Also worried about the display visibility in bright sun, battery life, responsiveness of the watch when I pause a run,

For me personally, visibility in the sun has been great and I use the low brightness setting on the Sport model. I can't speak for the sapphire ones. Battery life has been a non-issue as well and I've removed the battery complication. The Watch easily lasts me through a 19-hour day with 30% to spare.

 

[Tallrandal]

I have not gotten my watch yet, but I have been doing research on what app I am going to use since the workout app seems very basic. I am just getting back into running and I want to map my run and get an average on my workout. Nothing to fancy, but good statistics. I have been looking at MapmyRun or Runkeeper. I also wanted something that integrates with MyFitnessPal. Any suggestions or thoughts?

 

[PatrickNSF]

I have been looking at MapmyRun or Runkeeper. I also wanted something that integrates with MyFitnessPal. Any suggestions or thoughts?

Apparently, MyFitnessPal is still looking at how to do Apple Watch integration. When I used the standard Workout app to track my runs, those calories showed up in MFP, but none of my other active calories for the day did. But I was able to input those manually.

I've been using Nike+ the past several days and those workout have not been showing up in MFP. Good luck.

 

[Suggs68]

I have not gotten my watch yet, but I have been doing research on what app I am going to use since the workout app seems very basic. I am just getting back into running and I want to map my run and get an average on my workout. Nothing to fancy, but good statistics. I have been looking at MapmyRun or Runkeeper. I also wanted something that integrates with MyFitnessPal. Any suggestions or thoughts?

EndoMondo does integrate with MyFitnessPal. I'm not sure exactly what stats it pushes/pulls because I don't use MFP, but it's there in the settings under integrated apps. Personally, Endo is my running app of choice at the moment, at least until the Apple app or Runkeeper get better on the Watch.