1. PatrickNSF's Avatar
    I've found that running-specific apps even with watchOS 1 give accurate GPS readings (especially iSmoothRun, which is the best of the apps that I've tried). The issue is that (for me) they've been unreliable in maintaining the phone connection, haven't integrated HR data and have been more difficult to see in daylight than a proper running watch.

    I would assume watchOS 2 will address the first two issues, but the third is more problematic.

    I'm running Chicago this weekend, and Boston next April, but I don't plan to wear my Watch for either of those marathons. I feel more confident with my Garmin in those types of situations.
    10-06-2015 11:02 PM
  2. David Hroncheck's Avatar
    I'm not expecting the Watch to have its own GPS radio. It's a useful iPhone accessory, not an iPhone replacement. I don't think the MSFT Band2 is meant to be a phone replacement, either. So, how important is GPS to outdoor sport tracking? Does it provide a holy grail of sports metrics? I say it can be useful in training, but avoid relying on GPS in any race situations.

    Races are hand-measured, never with GPS, with most courses marked at every km/mi. Popular races are often run in urban environments with paths between buildings, under bridges and through tunnels. You're often elbow-to-elbow with racers, sometimes on trails though towering foliage. You may have heavy cloud cover, rain or snow. All of these things lead to errors in the best GPS trackers. Even under the most ideal conditions, all GPS trackers' raw data is littered with errors, most of which you won't see thanks to post-processing algorithms. The resulting data is a product of "smoothing" using moving averages and trashing of implausible waypoints. The variables are very complex, the output distilled and prone to error.

    If you're in a race, use a stopwatch with a lap counter. Better performance metrics can come from stride cadence and heart rate sensors. Use GPS for training routes.

    Maybe one day race officials will open up chip timing to watch developers or include location-aware Bluetooth checkpoints on race routes, but as it's stood for nearly 10 years, GPS is not good enough on race days.
    perspicacity likes this.
    10-07-2015 05:06 AM
  3. mfm77's Avatar
    Actually, my Band has been super-reliable with its measurements, of course due to its GPS and heart rate monitoring. I have used it in every race I've run in the past year, and it's right on par with the official race measurements, right down to the mile. I've raced in NYC and Philly, and the buildings and other impediments haven't affected the measurements at all while I'm running.

    That said, I'm curious enough about the Watch that I might snag a used one off Craigslist just to give it a look. Worst case scenario, it doesn't fit my needs and I re-sell it to someone else.
    10-07-2015 08:28 AM
  4. PatrickNSF's Avatar
    >> If you're in a race, use a stopwatch with a lap counter. Better performance metrics can come from stride cadence and heart rate sensors. Use GPS for training routes. <<

    I've never had any issues running marathons with a GPS watch. The distances will never be exact, but that has as much to do with the GPS as it does to do with running the course efficiently.

    I use my GPS watch to track my pace per mile and average pace in real time so I know whether on not I'm on target for that particular race. For these purposes, my GPS watch is good enough – and easy to use.
    10-07-2015 09:23 AM
  5. David Hroncheck's Avatar
    I didn't mean to imply that GPS watches were useless. I've been tracking every outdoor training run and race by GPS since 2007.

    They can be quite reliable, until they're not. If you've never had one fail and mess up your displayed distance and pacing, you're lucky. Races are our opportunity to fly with all kinds of support we never get in training. Water, food, exact distance markers, pacers and official timing.

    What I am suggesting is that GPS may not be always be a necessary feature in future sports tracking. Other sensors to explore and manage power output, stride efficiency, aerobic and lactate thresholds, all exist today and could be incorporated into a smartwatch ecosystem using the phone as a hub.

    No question, however, that a V800, Ambit3, Fenix3 or even a Forerunner225 gives us a better out-of-the-box sport experience than an Apple Watch or Microsoft Band2, but the standard metrics that made them champs should be challenged by the modularity of smartwatches.

    Bottom line, I don't think GPS is a necessary feature to be included in smartwatches. Those who are critical of the Watch for lacking GPS are missing the bigger picture.
    10-07-2015 10:03 AM
  6. PatrickNSF's Avatar
    What I am suggesting is that GPS may not be always be a necessary feature in future sports tracking. Other sensors to explore and manage power output, stride efficiency, aerobic and lactate thresholds, all exist today and could be incorporated into a smartwatch ecosystem using the phone as a hub.
    While that may be true in the future, I think the question was whether someone could use the current Watch for upcoming races. I generally recommend here and elsewhere that runners stick with a traditional GPS running watch for these purposes.
    Last edited by PatrickNSF; 10-07-2015 at 10:27 AM.
    10-07-2015 10:09 AM
  7. Suggs68's Avatar
    I've trained for and run marathons, half marathons and everything in between with my Apple Watch, a Microsoft Band before it, and a Garmin before that. I can easily say that the Apple Watch offers everything a full-featured GPS watch offers and then some, the caveat being you need to have your phone with you of course The Microsoft Band, and Band 2, offers slightly better support with the built-in GPS, but is lacking in many other areas because of app support. Personally, I always have my phone when I run, so the Watch works perfectly for me. I am patiently waiting (not so much) for Endo, Runkeeper, etc to update their apps for OS2, but they're stil very accurate and offer serious run analytics and tracking.
    10-07-2015 02:26 PM
  8. Suggs68's Avatar
    FINALLY!!! Runkeeper updated for OS2. Too bad I saw he update after I got back from my run. Can't wait to try it. Post impressions. I hope you can finally adjust the fields on the watch.
    10-22-2015 10:15 AM
  9. pilotnh's Avatar
    I think I found something that is going to please everyone in this thread. There is a group of apps (MotiFIT, MotiFIT Run, and MotiFIT Ride) which are being developed with the things people here are looking for. Currently MotiFIT runs natively and is used for general workouts with the Apple Watch for heart rate monitoring. The other two apps currently run on the iPhone with plans for native Apple Watch versions coming soon. I have been trying them out and they show great promise. I will be starting a separate thread about these apps to get feedback from others.

    Note: I am not the developer but have been in contact with him about the things users feel are lacking in the current apps available.
    10-22-2015 10:26 AM
  10. birdman325's Avatar
    Did another couple of Runs using Runtastic Pro and had the same issue. It starts out working perfectly, but after about 30 minutes, when I try to pause it at a red light, it periodically will not "resume". Sometimes after about 5 or 10 minutes it will resume and sometimes it just gets stuck on Pause. I used to like MapMyRun but on the Watch, there is almost no information shown so I have reluctantly gone back to the Apple stock running app.
    10-22-2015 12:02 PM
  11. Suggs68's Avatar
    Did run with the new Runkeeper. Overall decent experience. Heartrate and pace were accurate. My only real issue is the total lack of customization, and that the font is too small IMO. I would like to see both current and average pace, but it only shows Pace, which I'm assuming is just current. If they added customization I would probably buy the yearly subscription. As it is, I'm going back to Endomondo, which while it isn't updated for OS2, still offers a better overall experience IMO.
    10-23-2015 09:49 AM
  12. mfm77's Avatar
    Question: I'm running the NY Marathon on Sunday and would love to give the Apple Watch a try. That said, I'm anticipating a 5+ hour finish. I have a battery case for my iPhone, so I'm not worried about that part. However, do you thenWatch would hold up for that long? Would it help if I turned off the heart rate monitor and notifications? I'm not against doing any of that but wouldn't want the Watch to crap out like my Band did today during the Marine Corps Marathon. Even with notifications and the watch face turned off, it went dead after 4 or so hours. Didn't happen at last year's Philly Marathon! Band 2 is out, but I may not be able to get one by Sunday, hence my Apple Watch interest. :-)
    10-25-2015 09:25 PM
  13. rws381's Avatar
    I like the fact that RunKeep has been updated but something is goofed. I did a small bike ride on Friday home from work, 3.13 miles 154 calories. When I went to bed Friday my total calories (Move) was 652. Sometime on Saturday evening I noticed that the Activity app was only showing 498 calories for the day, calories that were logged inside of Activity, it dropped my RK calories.

    Same thing on Saturday, I woke up and had a 452 calorie 4.34 mile run in the morning. Instead of my total calories showing 797 I'm only seeing 345 in the Activity app.

    This means that the Activity app thinks that I didn't meet my 630 Move goal either of those days =/

    Anyone else experience this phenomenon?
    10-26-2015 07:24 AM
  14. Suggs68's Avatar
    I ran a half marathon a few weeks ago. I did it in about 1:35 and the battery was at about 85%. I was using endomondo so no heart rate monitor, but based on that you should be fine. And Christy Turlington did that whole promotional thing while she did her marathon in the spring and it was 4+ hours.
    10-26-2015 07:28 AM
  15. tcuprof's Avatar
    I like the fact that RunKeep has been updated but something is goofed. I did a small bike ride on Friday home from work, 3.13 miles 154 calories. When I went to bed Friday my total calories (Move) was 652. Sometime on Saturday evening I noticed that the Activity app was only showing 498 calories for the day, calories that were logged inside of Activity, it dropped my RK calories.
    Same thing on Saturday, I woke up and had a 452 calorie 4.34 mile run in the morning. Instead of my total calories showing 797 I'm only seeing 345 in the Activity app.
    This means that the Activity app thinks that I didn't meet my 630 Move goal either of those days =/
    Anyone else experience this phenomenon?
    I haven't had that problem. Did you compare the reported calories on the activity app and the health app? Could it be a sync problem?
    10-26-2015 02:21 PM
  16. rws381's Avatar
    I haven't had that problem. Did you compare the reported calories on the activity app and the health app? Could it be a sync problem?
    I hadn't compared them previously but the Health app is showing the correct calorie count. Somewhere, all Move recorded by RunKeeper is being removed from my Move total after it is being written.

    I usually notice it sometime the next day.
    10-26-2015 02:27 PM
  17. Valana's Avatar
    I’m sad to see so many are complaining about Runkeeper for watchOS 2, because every last one of the complaints I’ve been seeing have pertained to bugs I reported during the Runkeeper beta. None of them were fixed before the app was released. I suggest you go and voice your complaints on the Runkeeper support thread: https://support.runkeeper.com/hc/com...h-Improvements
    10-27-2015 12:21 AM
  18. rws381's Avatar
    It happened again yesterday unfortunately.
    10-27-2015 06:26 AM
  19. birdman325's Avatar
    I guess at the end of the day, the question is whether RunKeeper is sufficiently better than the Stock Apple running app. For years I have used a Garmin 305 (the big red square one) and I still think the dedicated watches are better. No glitches, they always stop and restart, screen display is very customizable and the GPS is extremely accurate.
    10-27-2015 09:58 AM
  20. eb_therebel's Avatar
    I did a ten mile race on Sunday with Runkeeper for the watch. I used it for the first 3 miles and it was hard to read because the text was so small and every time I raised my wrist, it took a few seconds to catch up. It behaves like it was trying to read from my phone. It did record my heart rate and seemed to have my right pace. Ended up switching to the workout app for the remainder of the race because of the responsiveness of it
    10-27-2015 02:26 PM
  21. pilotnh's Avatar
    I really would like to see what all of you runners think of the new app MotiFIT Run.
    10-27-2015 02:34 PM
  22. Vortec 5.3's Avatar
    Do any of you using the workout app WITH long sleeves or running jacket covering the watch face have the screen go to end run? It's like the sleeves rubbing across the face stops the time and distance.
    11-03-2015 10:52 AM
  23. tcuprof's Avatar
    Do any of you using the workout app WITH long sleeves or running jacket covering the watch face have the screen go to end run? It's like the sleeves rubbing across the face stops the time and distance.
    I've only had to run with my jacket a couple of times and a long sleeve maybe a dozen times, but so far I haven't experienced any problems like you're describing.
    11-03-2015 02:20 PM
  24. birdman325's Avatar
    I have not had any problem running with long sleeves although I bet that shortly I will be able to answer that question with respect to jackets!
    11-03-2015 03:13 PM
  25. Vortec 5.3's Avatar
    It seems like the jacket or the long sleeves force touches the screen to end the run.
    11-03-2015 04:31 PM
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