1. impaler's Avatar
    It seems you can only get preset distance intervals, but not one based on time..
    Not true. I can set up a run for a time based, distance based, calorie-based, or open goal.
    04-28-2015 02:45 PM
  2. Suggs68's Avatar
    You're right Impaler, I haven't used it, so I guess I'll have to. It just seemed pretty bare-bones when I played with it a bit. the Runkeeper app does much more in terms of tracking weekly/monthly/yearly stats. Does the stock workout app export data to Runkeeper? I didn't think it did.
    But anyway, based on what I've seen so far, Endomondo is better than both since it allows you to choose which fields you see on the watch. Like in my case, I have current pace, average pace and distance on the first screen, with calories & elapsed time on the second screen.
    04-28-2015 03:24 PM
  3. impaler's Avatar
    You're right Impaler, I haven't used it, so I guess I'll have to. It just seemed pretty bare-bones when I played with it a bit. the Runkeeper app does much more in terms of tracking weekly/monthly/yearly stats. Does the stock workout app export data to Runkeeper?
    I think it defaults to somewhat bare bones, but when you swipe around, it offers a tremendous amount of data and seems very customizable for what data you want. The data is all contained in the Health app on the iPhone. It shows every 10 minutes, that my heart rate is being taken. It lets you track by day, week, month and year. You can then drill down to the raw data points - something I know in the 1200 miles of running I've logged in RunKeeper, it doesn't do to that level, even with an Elite upgrade.

    My health app now tracks steps, active and inactive calories, walk+run distances, heart rate, workouts (from Apple Watch and Workout app), BMI, body fat, weight (from my Withings WiFi scale at home), calories consumed (from MyFitnessPal), and blood pressure (from the Withings blood pressure sleeve). It's pretty great. The best part is it will prioritze which sources it pulls data from. So for instance, it won't use the steps counted on the M7 chip on my iPhone 5s, if I'm wearing the watch, so it doesn't double-count steps. I'm not saying the combo of Apple Watch activity, workout apps, with iOS' Health app are a panacea, but the more I experiment, the more compelling they seem.
    dianahk likes this.
    04-28-2015 04:51 PM
  4. Suggs68's Avatar
    ok Impaler, you're right. Just did a short walk with the workout app to see how it works, and it does offer more info & customization that I thought. I'll try a run with it tomorrow. Couple of questions. So I assume when you do an outdoor activity, it will automatically connect to the GPS if you have your phone with you to track the activity? When I started walking it didn't say anything about connecting to GPS or how the GPS signal was, like other running/exercise apps do. I would like to know its using the GPS for a run if I'm training so I know its accurate. I like that it said what the weather was, but I would also like it to map my route. Hopefully that will come in an update.
    Also, if I want to see how many miles I ran in a month, where can I do that? I can see its not pulling the data from Health into Runkeeper, even though that's an app I have connected to Health. am I missing something?
    04-28-2015 06:02 PM
  5. impaler's Avatar
    I assume when you do an outdoor activity, it will automatically connect to the GPS if you have your phone with you to track the activity? I like that it said what the weather was, but I would also like it to map my route. Hopefully that will come in an update.

    Also, if I want to see how many miles I ran in a month, where can I do that? I can see its not pulling the data from Health into Runkeeper, even though that's an app I have connected to Health. am I missing something?
    Good questions...so for the first part, if you have your Watch connected to your iPhone, and you bring it with you, it automatically uses the GPS in the phone to track distance, pace, etc. It provides for a more accurate run. According to Apple's documentation, they recommend a total of 20 minutes of running/walking outdoors with a clear sky (ergo a good GPS connection) to "calibrate" the watch to your pace.

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204516

    This article also explains more about the details of the Workout app: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204523

    I also do P90X, and for those exercises, I use "other". I found it still constantly tracked my heartrate, giving me minute by minute stats, and average heart rate after. Since those workouts are an intense hour or so, I more than exceeded the 30-minute requirement. Sunday, it will suggest a new goal for me - based on my daily activity level. It seems to get better with more data to work with.

    As for heart rate, the workout app will measure any time you have your rate between 70-100% of your max HR, based on the Mayo Clinic's rules: take 220, subtract your age, and that's your max. I'm 40, so my max is 180. Then divide by .7, to get your 70% rate, which for me is 126. That's how some people are reporting their entire workouts aren't measured in the workout app - you have to actually start a workout to do the constant measurements. Otherwise it measures your heart beat every 10 min.

    I wish it mapped runs too - even in the iPhone Activity app. No such luck, as you said.

    So - Health doesn't feed into RunKeeper. But the opposite is true. In the Health app, go to Sources, and you should see RunKeeper - if not I think you add Health rights from the RK app. Then see what it's allowed to write and read data from and to. For me, I've always manually plugged in my runs, as I used Nike+ Running to measure my runs. Now that I'm thinking of migrating to Apple's solution, I'm just manually plugging in my runs from Health to RunKeeper. I have nearly 1500 miles logged in RK, and I don't want to lose all that data!

    I wouldn't really advocate for one or the other - we all have to just pick an ecosystem.
    04-28-2015 06:46 PM
  6. Suggs68's Avatar
    Ok, I went for a 4 mile run using the stock exercise app. Much better than I thought, but needs work.
    I liked having the taptic feedback for each mile, and the interface ok the watch was surprisingly good. The combo of the font/colors and background they used makes it very readable. And I like the ability to scroll through different fields. The watch app showed a good summary of my run with stats like average pace and heart rate, both of which were accurate.
    There were a few issues though. The distance was off by almost 1/10th of a mile. Not a huge deal, but a lot if you're a serious runner or training for something, and even the best GPS watches can be of at times, so I'll see how it is with a couple more runs. Also, the pace the watch showed throughout the run, which I checked pretty frequently, was way off, by about 30 seconds a mile. When I finished, the average pace it showed was perfect, so I'm not sure why it was showing so slow during the run.
    Also, when I ran with my Microsoft Band, it would always sync the run up with my Runkeeper app. Apple Health has read/write access to Runkeeper too, but it doesn't seem to push the run to it. Not sure if that's an Apple issue or a Runkeeper issue, but if Microsoft Health can do it I don't see why Apple Health can't.
    So overall a good experience but it definitely needs a bit of work to be my go-to run app.
    04-29-2015 07:39 AM
  7. CrucialTK's Avatar
    Something tells me I'm going to end up like you guys, testing every single variation of how to get the most information out of my phone/watch for fitness. My watch is prepped for shipping now, so I'll have it for my half marathon on Sunday, but I don't think I'll have all the bugs worked out by then . Looks like I'm probably going to run workout and MapMyRun concurrently.

    After this weekend though, I'll test endomondo and runkeeper to see how well they do. I just defaulted to MapMyRun because of its integration into MyFitnessPal and Withings, and how easily I can switch between a walk/run/cycling in the same app. If it can also run the heart rate monitor function of the app during a workout, I'll be golden.
    PatrickNSF likes this.
    04-29-2015 07:53 AM
  8. David Hroncheck's Avatar
    If it can also run the heart rate monitor function of the app during a workout, I'll be golden.
    Unfortunately, this isn't possible. From Nike+ to Runkeeper, Strava, Endomondo, MapMyRun to any others, none have access to the Watch's HRM right now. Hopefully in the near future the HRM can be paired like any other BT accessory, but I won't hold my breath. The way Apple are pushing HealthKit, Watch HRM data will likely have to flow through the Health app to 3rd party apps. You should be able to run the Activity app and your favourite iOS tracker in tandem. Let us know how you get on with your race. Good luck!
    impaler likes this.
    04-29-2015 01:05 PM
  9. Bifurcated's Avatar
    Hopefully in the near future the HRM can be paired like any other BT accessory, but I won't hold my breath.
    I am hoping that this is one of many limitations in the current Watch SDK, which does not currently support the creation of native apps. I will be watching closely what is announced in WWDC in June.
    04-29-2015 02:25 PM
  10. PatrickNSF's Avatar
    So glad I found this thread!

    I'm a pretty active runner – about 40 miles/week, and one or two marathons a year. I've been primarily using Garmins for the past three years, but want to transition over to my new (as of yesterday) Apple Watch to keep better track of my overall activity level, in addition to my runs.

    I went for my first run this morning with the Watch and my Garmin 620 and they ended up within 0.08 of each other after a 7.5 mile run. I was using the Workout app. I set a distance goal, so I was able to see current time, distance and pace. I agree that the pace readout seemed off throughout the run, although that's partly my fault. I had both watches going during my 1/4 mile walking warmup and cool down, so that impacts overall pace. With the Garmin, I'm able to display the pace for the current lap (which is always a mile), so I never really worry about my overall pace. I didn't see an option to do that with the Workout app.

    I'm happy to experiment with a bunch of the apps, too, if that's helpful in forming a consensus as to what the best options are.

    Also, is there a better way to pause a workout other than doing the force touch? I needed to pause twice at lights, and one time it didn't register my "resume" selection and the other it didn't register my "pause" selection. Seems like a better begin would be to enable the side button to pause workouts instead of bring up contacts during the run. Even a double-click would work.
    Nanci likes this.
    04-29-2015 05:14 PM
  11. CrucialTK's Avatar
    Unfortunately, this isn't possible. From Nike+ to Runkeeper, Strava, Endomondo, MapMyRun to any others, none have access to the Watch's HRM right now. Hopefully in the near future the HRM can be paired like any other BT accessory, but I won't hold my breath. The way Apple are pushing HealthKit, Watch HRM data will likely have to flow through the Health app to 3rd party apps. You should be able to run the Activity app and your favourite iOS tracker in tandem. Let us know how you get on with your race. Good luck!
    Thanks for the tip and well wishes!
    04-29-2015 08:40 PM
  12. bdtrader's Avatar
    So glad I found this thread!


    Also, is there a better way to pause a workout other than doing the force touch? I needed to pause twice at lights, and one time it didn't register my "resume" selection and the other it didn't register my "pause" selection. Seems like a better begin would be to enable the side button to pause workouts instead of bring up contacts during the run. Even a double-click would work.
    If you slide all the way to right you can bring up the stop/pause screen. Same screen as the force touch screen.
    PatrickNSF likes this.
    04-30-2015 12:23 AM
  13. PatrickNSF's Avatar
    If you slide all the way to right you can bring up the stop/pause screen. Same screen as the force touch screen.
    Just tried it. Works great! Thanks.
    04-30-2015 01:06 AM
  14. Suggs68's Avatar
    Did another run today (5 miles) with the stock exercise app. It was more accurate than yesterday's run. Pretty much exact for 5 miles. I still found that the pace displayed on the watch was pretty far off from what my actual pace was each time i checked, but the ending average pace was correct. also, it appeared like the distance was off by t least 1/10th of a mile on a few occasions, but in the end it was accurate. It is nice having the BPM data too. I don't like the pause interface. I know I can scroll up to bring it up faster than the hard press, but I found it didn't come up every time.
    I think I'm going to switch back to Endomondo or Runkeeper, probably Endo until they improve the RK interface. I like being able to see the map with splits & interval times, which is important when I'm training. Trade off is losing the heart rate monitor, but the battery drain is also much better so it balances for me. Just can't wait for these 3rd party apps to be better integrated into Health or the watch activity ring.
    04-30-2015 09:46 AM
  15. PatrickNSF's Avatar
    When you use a third party app, do you get credit for the activity in your exercise ring? And does the activity show up as a workout in the iPhone app?

    Also, how were you finding the display in bright sunlight? I had a bit of trouble viewing mine yesterday, especially compared to the Garmin (which, I know, is not a fair comparison).
    Nanci likes this.
    04-30-2015 10:19 AM
  16. Suggs68's Avatar
    with the 3rd party apps, you do get credit in the exercise ring because it's counting the activity as exercise, but not in the workout app. Endomondo has a glance where it tracks your weekly progress as well as the iPhone app, and Runkeeper has an iPhone app that tracks it. I think the issue is that Apple hasn't opened up the activity/workout apps to real integration with 3rd parties. Hoping that will change soon.

    Display is fine in direct sunlight. not great, but definitely readable.
    04-30-2015 02:39 PM
  17. PatrickNSF's Avatar
    Thanks. With regard to the display, I'm having an issue reading the some of the text on the Workout app, specifically the blue font. When you do a distance run, it displays the targeted distance in a thin blue font that is difficult to read in direct sunlight. It's fine in the shade, and if you use use your hand to cover the screen, but it's hard to get a quick read. I think I'd be fine with the app if the hints were a little thicker and the colors were adjustable...or just white. The white text in that screen is fine.

    I think I'm coming to the conclusion that the Watch is going to be fine for casual, every day runs, but I think when I'm training for the next marathon I'd probably need to go back to the Garmin. That being said, I love the way the Watch incorporates my running activity to give me a total picture of my activity for the day. The calorie calculations seem close to what'd I'd expect, so I think the HRM is working fine for me. Im looking forward to seeing how all the third party apps shake out once Apple opens up the API a bit more.
    04-30-2015 05:11 PM
  18. dianahk's Avatar
    Here is a Runner's World review of several watch apps for running.

    I my apple watch just arrived and is sitting in the box at home while I am at work. This thread has been very helpful and I am looking to explore the running apps soon.
    05-01-2015 12:55 PM
  19. impaler's Avatar
    The distance was off by almost 1/10th of a mile. Not a huge deal, but a lot if you're a serious runner or training for something, and even the best GPS watches can be of at times, so I'll see how it is with a couple more runs. Also, the pace the watch showed throughout the run, which I checked pretty frequently, was way off, by about 30 seconds a mile. When I finished, the average pace it showed was perfect, so I'm not sure why it was showing so slow during the run.

    Apple Health has read/write access to Runkeeper too, but it doesn't seem to push the run to it.
    Good feedback. Did you bring your phone with you while you ran? If not, you may need to do a few outdoor workouts with a good GPS connection to get there. I found after my first 20-minute+ plus runs, and another walk, outdoors under my belt, the runs are very accurate now.

    Health won't feed into RunKeeper. Health is a respository. The only thing you can do is have RunKeeper write to or read from the Health app. It just doesn't have an export type feature. And knowing Apple, don't hold your breath for one.
    05-01-2015 04:10 PM
  20. PatrickNSF's Avatar
    Thanks. With regard to the display, I'm having an issue reading the some of the text on the Workout app, specifically the blue font. When you do a distance run, it displays the targeted distance in a thin blue font that is difficult to read in direct sunlight. It's fine in the shade, and if you use use your hand to cover the screen, but it's hard to get a quick read. I think I'd be fine with the app if the hints were a little thicker and the colors were adjustable...or just white. The white text in that screen is fine.
    Follow-up: Discovered that you can change the font to "Bold" in the accessibility settings, and tried this for today's run. Worked pretty well and made the screen more readable for quick glances when running. The font colors are sometimes still questionable, but workable for now.

    It's easy to switch the Bold setting on and off, but it requires a restart of the Watch.
    impaler likes this.
    05-01-2015 09:11 PM
  21. Suggs68's Avatar
    Good feedback. Did you bring your phone with you while you ran? If not, you may need to do a few outdoor workouts with a good GPS connection to get there. I found after my first 20-minute+ plus runs, and another walk, outdoors under my belt, the runs are very accurate now.

    Health won't feed into RunKeeper. Health is a respository. The only thing you can do is have RunKeeper write to or read from the Health app. It just doesn't have an export type feature. And knowing Apple, don't hold your breath for one.
    I ran with my phone each time. Did 2 runs with the stock app and while the second run was much more accurate when I finished, it seemed very off during the run, with distance off by 1/10th or so a few times, and the pace was also much slower than I was actually running.
    Then went back to Endomondo again today and it was very accurate throughout the the run and after, plus the stats and tracking are much better. Even though I'd prefer having the heart rate monitoring and taptic feedback from the stock app, it's worth the trade offs.
    05-01-2015 09:34 PM
  22. impaler's Avatar
    Suggs68,
    Can you use a Bluetooth chest strap to capture real time heart rate, and still use Endomondo to get the most accurate data?

    I wore the watch playing an hour of racquetball today - set it to other - and I think it was pretty accurate on the heart rate and calorie burn. I'm really motivated to finish my circles every day. I look forward to Monday, to see what the Activity app will suggest as my goal.
    dianahk likes this.
    05-01-2015 11:12 PM
  23. PatrickNSF's Avatar
    Even though I'd prefer having the heart rate monitoring and taptic feedback from the stock app, it's worth the trade offs.
    Do you find the taptic feedback using the Workout app to be weak? I think it's supposed to give feedback each mile, but sometimes I can't feel it even if I'm watching the mile tick off to the next. I used the Prominent Haptic option for yesterday's run but it didn't seem to work in the Workout app, though it worked for other notifications.
    05-02-2015 01:02 PM
  24. impaler's Avatar
    Do you find the taptic feedback using the Workout app to be weak?
    Very weak. I came from an original Pebble, which was very strong - so maybe I'm a bit biased. If I'm running, there's little chance I'll feel the mile taps. I do feel them usually if I'm walking, though. Barely. I definitely enabled prominent haptic, early on. It's better, but not stronger. It just taps me in a longer sequence.
    PatrickNSF likes this.
    05-02-2015 01:08 PM
  25. PatrickNSF's Avatar
    Very weak. I came from an original Pebble, which was very strong - so maybe I'm a bit biased. If I'm running, there's little chance I'll feel the mile taps. I do feel them usually if I'm walking, though. Barely. I definitely enabled prominent haptic, early on. It's better, but not stronger. It just taps me in a longer sequence.
    Good to hear. Well, "good" as in "there's nothing wrong with my watch." I feel the haptic fine for other notifications, and I have the prominent setting off. I'd be fine turning the prominent setting on just for runs, like I'm doing now with the bold font setting, but it doesn't seem to impact the Workout app.

    I'm finding a lot of little annoyances, but it wouldn't take much for them to turn the Workout app into a decent Garmin substitute for me.
    Last edited by PatrickNSF; 05-02-2015 at 05:30 PM.
    05-02-2015 04:42 PM
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