1. Scatabrain's Avatar
    To clarify what i thought was obvious. For me if something sucks to do to someone the for me, it's wrong. And this is more parsing words and others incorrectly comparing what an original manufacturer - selling direct - to consumers. Others selling on ebay are mucking the process up.


    Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk
    04-15-2015 04:29 PM
  2. HankAZ's Avatar
    To clarify what i thought was obvious. For me if something sucks to do to someone the for me, it's wrong. And this is more parsing words and others incorrectly comparing what an original manufacturer - selling direct - to consumers. Others selling on ebay are mucking the process up.
    Reselling for a profit is NOT doing anything to anyone. If I have an Watch listed on eBay, regardless of the price, I am not forcing you to do anything. If I am selling, you have the choice to buy or not. I am selling you my Watch with the convenience of getting it NOW as opposed to waiting 6 weeks or 6 months. No one is mucking up the process.

    Everything has a price. That price is payable in terms of money, time or effort.

    You still have not presented a valid argument.
    04-15-2015 04:38 PM
  3. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Sean, now do you get it? You don't have to agree but now can you admit that I have a point of view and maybe even a basis for it?

    BTW: I have a 4/24 ship date. I don't expect any favors from anyone. I also don't choose to interfere with others. What the heck is wrong with that? It was probably useless name calling for humor but I bet some cheered and said - yeah so entitled.




    Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk
    No...I do not admit that you have a point because you DON'T. You've back tracked and changed your argument now...the reason this entire debate started is because you assigned the term "scalper" to ANYONE that sold the product after release for more than retail cost, and THAT is what I objected to.

    Are there people who buy up stock only to make a buck on EVERY unit they bought? Sure! And as it has been said, Apple has taken steps to deter this behavior, even if it is perfectly legal to do.

    Is EVERY person that sells their device after release for a profit one of these "scalpers"? Absolutely NOT.

    And that is where the problem occurred...YOU said the two are exactly the same, and I said that is absolutely asinine because when I buy a product for myself, how is it "wrong" for me to decide to sell it to a person who is desperate enough to pay more than it's retail cost to have it immediately?

    You over generalized and I called you on it...you backed off and now you've changed your tune and you're focusing on the people who buy multiple units SOLELY for resale during the initial release profit spike. That is why I said you have no legitimate argument for what I've said...you've changed direction.
    04-15-2015 04:38 PM
  4. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    ....No one on a forum is ever going to convince another person that they are wrong. ...
    I'm not sure I agree. The hard part is getting the person to convince himself that he is wrong when he or she knows the evidence supports it....
    04-15-2015 04:41 PM
  5. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    To clarify what i thought was obvious. For me if something sucks to do to someone the for me, it's wrong. And this is more parsing words and others incorrectly comparing what an original manufacturer - selling direct - to consumers. Others selling on ebay are mucking the process up.


    Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk
    Explain how it is "mucking the process up". What SPECIFICALLY is it mucking up for the end user?
    04-15-2015 04:43 PM
  6. Premium1's Avatar
    Explain how it is "mucking the process up". What SPECIFICALLY is it mucking up for the end user?
    Maybe taking one away from someone who actually wants it to wear and not just sell? And now that said person will have to wait longer? That's the only thing I could see them saying.
    04-15-2015 05:02 PM
  7. Beyond Fire's Avatar
    Maybe taking one away from someone who actually wants it to wear and not just sell? And now that said person will have to wait longer? That's the only thing I could see them saying.
    Even if every single in person in line bought one for the sole purpose of actually using it and not to sell for a profit. There are still gonna be ppl who waited in line for hours that will not have gotten one. It doesn't change anything.


    Sent from my Golden Apple Six
    Ipheuria likes this.
    04-15-2015 05:18 PM
  8. Premium1's Avatar
    Even if every single in person in line bought one for the sole purpose of actually using it and not to sell for a profit. There are still gonna be ppl who waited in line for hours that will not have gotten one. It doesn't change anything.


    Sent from my Golden Apple Six
    It does when 5 min after preorders open the wait time was a month or longer..


    Sent from my iPhone using tapatalk
    Scatabrain likes this.
    04-15-2015 05:19 PM
  9. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Maybe taking one away from someone who actually wants it to wear and not just sell? And now that said person will have to wait longer? That's the only thing I could see them saying.
    Do they not have the same opportunity to pre-order or get in line for the product that everyone else has? In the years that I've pre-ordered these products or got in line to get them on release day, I've been successful in doing so with little more than the effort on my part to stay up or show up when I needed to to get the product.
    04-15-2015 05:20 PM
  10. franknasty's Avatar
    Hi

    Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk
    04-15-2015 05:23 PM
  11. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    I wear hearing aids. It costs the manufacturer $80 to produce a premium quality hearing aid. They sell it to the retailer/Audiologist for $1,000. The retailer sells it to the consumer for $3,000. Is that wrong? No, it's not. I hate it though, because insurance pays nothing on hearing aids.


    Sent from my ancient but trustworthy iPhone 5. ☮
    Just_Me_D and tmadsen like this.
    04-15-2015 05:26 PM
  12. jean15paul's Avatar
    I wear hearing aids. It costs the manufacturer $80 to produce a premium quality hearing aid. They sell it to the retailer/Audiologist for $1,000. The retailer sells it to the consumer for $3,000. Is that wrong? No, it's not. I hate it though, because insurance pays nothing on hearing aids.


    Sent from my ancient but trustworthy iPhone 5. ☮
    Insurance. There's a scam right there.
    04-15-2015 05:31 PM
  13. SwitchBeach's Avatar
    To clarify what i thought was obvious. For me if something sucks to do to someone the for me, it's wrong. And this is more parsing words and others incorrectly comparing what an original manufacturer - selling direct - to consumers. Others selling on ebay are mucking the process up.
    The point that you are STILL missing is that everyone had the exact same opportunity to get up early (or stay up) and order the watch if they chose to do so.
    Everyone STILL has the same opportunity to order the watch today and WAIT for it to ship.

    No one has deprived anyone of this opportunity.

    Would it be any different to you if those same people who "snatched up" all the watches did so with the intention of keeping them rather than potentially selling them? If so, how would this be any different as an end result? The same number of watches would have been sold and the same number would be available (or unavailable) to the next potential purchasers.

    So what difference does it make what the initial purchasers intend to do with the watches? No one is being forced to by on eBay either way.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    04-15-2015 05:49 PM
  14. Scatabrain's Avatar
    The point that you are STILL missing is that everyone had the exact same opportunity to get up early (or stay up) and order the watch if they chose to do so.
    Everyone STILL has the same opportunity to order the watch today and WAIT for it to ship.

    No one has deprived anyone of this opportunity.

    Would it be any different to you if those same people who "snatched up" all the watches did so with the intention of keeping them rather than potentially selling them? If so, how would this be any different as an end result? The same number of watches would have been sold and the same number would be available (or unavailable) to the next potential purchasers.

    So what difference does it make what the initial purchasers intend to do with the watches? No one is being forced to by on eBay either way.
    When the scalpers game it that's not right. A normal consumer doesn't stand a chance. Most people aren't like me prepared at 3am.


    Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk
    04-15-2015 06:11 PM
  15. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    When the scalpers game it that's not right. A normal consumer doesn't stand a chance. Most people aren't like me prepared at 3am.


    Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk
    It was well known that there would be a shortage and what time they went on sale. If a "normal" consumer didn't know this, then they hadn't done even the slightest bit of research into the watch. If they hadn't researched it, how badly did they really want it? Everyone had the same opportunity to purchase two watches.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    04-15-2015 06:40 PM
  16. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    When the scalpers game it that's not right. A normal consumer doesn't stand a chance. Most people aren't like me prepared at 3am.


    Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk
    I'm a normal consumer...I've yet to miss out on getting a new Apple product on release day. I'd say I've stood a perfectly fair chance each and every year...just like anyone else has the opportunity to.

    You've also avoided the point as you have through this entire thread. At least you're consistent with that!
    04-15-2015 07:22 PM
  17. jean15paul's Avatar
    I'm a normal consumer...I've yet to miss out on getting a new Apple product on release day. I'd say I've stood a perfectly fair chance each and every year...just like anyone else has the opportunity to.

    You've also avoided the point as you have through this entire thread. At least you're consistent with that!
    Nobody regularly participating in the iMore forums is a normal consumer. You're an enthusiast. We all are.
    04-15-2015 07:25 PM
  18. SeanHRCC's Avatar
    Nobody regularly participating in the iMore forums is a normal consumer. You're an enthusiast. We all are.
    I disagree. Just because a person is an educated consumer doesn't prevent them from also being normal. To me, a normal consumer is one who follows the common trend to purchase whatever product they are interested in. I don't buy every item Apple makes...I only buy what works for me (which turns out to be the iPhone and MBP series of computers for me)...my wife liked the watch so I stayed up to pre-order it, like any other normal consumer could do.

    Truth is...I don't see being an enthusiast and a consumer as mutual events, so while I may be an Apple product enthusiast, I don't feel it changes my habits or characteristics as a consumer at all, especially since 75% of the stuff Apple makes I don't actually CONSUME.
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    04-15-2015 07:35 PM
  19. hatchettjack's Avatar
    As long as welfare recipients get there's I'm ok with it!


    Sent from my  6+
    04-15-2015 07:47 PM
  20. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    As long as welfare recipients get there's I'm ok with it!


    Sent from my  6+
    What? Please explain...
    04-15-2015 08:35 PM
  21. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    What? Please explain...
    That sort of came out of left field! SMH!


    Sent from my ancient but trustworthy iPhone 5. ☮
    04-15-2015 08:51 PM
  22. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    That sort of came out of left field! SMH!


    Sent from my ancient but trustworthy iPhone 5. ☮
    I know, right?...
    04-15-2015 08:56 PM
  23. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    What? Please explain...
    I'm assuming some to do with entitlements?
    Just_Me_D likes this.
    04-15-2015 09:00 PM
  24. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I'm assuming some to do with entitlements?
    I think you're right...
    04-15-2015 09:02 PM
  25. Ipheuria's Avatar
    When the scalpers game it that's not right. A normal consumer doesn't stand a chance. Most people aren't like me prepared at 3am.

    Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk
    Actually I think there were 1 million people who were prepared at 3AM. You said yourself there were people at 3AM who ordered and got delivery dates later than launch because of said "scalpers".

    Nobody regularly participating in the iMore forums is a normal consumer. You're an enthusiast. We all are.
    I find this to be a very condescending statement to normal consumers. You might not have meant it that way but the way it sounds to me is you are basically saying a normal consumer is too dumb to find and sign up for this forum. Just before you say that by signing up for a forum that is what makes a person an enthusiast know that there are forums for everything. There are maturnity forums where mothers get together and talk so what are they enthusiasts of?
    04-15-2015 09:37 PM
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