1. tcuprof's Avatar
    What's to say the treadmill is spot on - they have a margin of error too.
    True, the treadmill could be inaccurate and stride could also be different. Still, I've observed the watch reporting a slower pace and less distance on three different treadmills. Also, I tend to run at a very consistent pace and I just think I'd know if I were running 30-45 seconds per mile slower.
    01-19-2017 04:53 PM
  2. Mac Guy's Avatar
    Does anyone know if the watch use GPS calibration (likely through the phone) even when just walking?
    According to Apple, you can calibrate an S2 Watch while walking or running. If you don't have anS2, you'd need to use your iPhone and calibrate it instead.

    If you have an S2 and walk or run with your phone, you'd probably calibrate the phone first, then put it in Airplane mode and let the S2 use it's own GPS instead of the phone's. I believe you're calibrating the accelerometer to your normal walk or run pace, against the GPS, and not calibrating the GPS itself. I think you can reset the calibration for both the Watch and the phone, if you feel the need...
    01-22-2017 05:07 AM
  3. littlebib's Avatar
    According to Apple, you can calibrate an S2 Watch while walking or running. If you don't have anS2, you'd need to use your iPhone and calibrate it instead.

    If you have an S2 and walk or run with your phone, you'd probably calibrate the phone first, then put it in Airplane mode and let the S2 use it's own GPS instead of the phone's. I believe you're calibrating the accelerometer to your normal walk or run pace, against the GPS, and not calibrating the GPS itself. I think you can reset the calibration for both the Watch and the phone, if you feel the need...
    I ran an experiment similar to this. I reset the calibration on the Watch and then I went for a run that averaged right at the 8:00 mark (4.01 miles in 32:08). Then I turned off calibration (privacy->location services->System Services->motion calibration & distance). My hypothesis here was that the calibration was actually including my walking into it's calculations. I personally don't care if my walking distances are accurate so this is OK with me. I ran 3 miles on the treadmill today - 8:10, 8:10, and 8:00 miles. So this, to me, was within my expected margin of error (treadmill accuracy and potentially different stride length on it). Obviously, I'm only one data point here, but I think this certainly supports my hypothesis.
    01-24-2017 12:41 PM
  4. tcuprof's Avatar
    I ran an experiment similar to this. I reset the calibration on the Watch and then I went for a run that averaged right at the 8:00 mark (4.01 miles in 32:08). Then I turned off calibration (privacy->location services->System Services->motion calibration & distance). My hypothesis here was that the calibration was actually including my walking into it's calculations. I personally don't care if my walking distances are accurate so this is OK with me. I ran 3 miles on the treadmill today - 8:10, 8:10, and 8:00 miles. So this, to me, was within my expected margin of error (treadmill accuracy and potentially different stride length on it). Obviously, I'm only one data point here, but I think this certainly supports my hypothesis.
    Interesting. I haven't recalibrated but I decided to see how my AW2 did on a treadmill walk since on the treadmill I've only ever used it for runs. For my morning walks this week, I set the treadmill to the usual speed of 15 min/mile. The workout app is reporting the pace at 14'41", 14'46", and 14'35". I suppose given possible differences in stride length, that could be accurate. If so, it makes me think the margin of error goes up as you speed up.
    01-25-2017 01:16 PM
  5. eyecrispy's Avatar
    I ran an experiment similar to this. I reset the calibration on the Watch and then I went for a run that averaged right at the 8:00 mark (4.01 miles in 32:08). Then I turned off calibration (privacy->location services->System Services->motion calibration & distance). My hypothesis here was that the calibration was actually including my walking into it's calculations. I personally don't care if my walking distances are accurate so this is OK with me. I ran 3 miles on the treadmill today - 8:10, 8:10, and 8:00 miles. So this, to me, was within my expected margin of error (treadmill accuracy and potentially different stride length on it). Obviously, I'm only one data point here, but I think this certainly supports my hypothesis.
    Interesting. What does turning that setting off on your phone do to your watch? Mine is toggled on, but when I'm running on a treadmill, my phone is sitting on the treadmill and not on my person. I guess I'm just saying that I don't know what that setting actually does.
    01-25-2017 08:37 PM
  6. littlebib's Avatar
    Interesting. What does turning that setting off on your phone do to your watch? Mine is toggled on, but when I'm running on a treadmill, my phone is sitting on the treadmill and not on my person. I guess I'm just saying that I don't know what that setting actually does.
    My understanding is that is correlates the watch's movement with the GPS. With this off, neither the watch nor the phone itself will continue to try to keep the calibration updated whether walking or running.



    Unrelated question for people using the Nike app: It seems that every time I start a run, my first mile is off by about .1 of a mile. When I run past my normal mile marks (multiple routes), I consistently pass them before the watch hits the mile marker. After that, it seems to be accurate (albeit behind by .1 miles), but that first mile is always off. I think I'm going to try starting a run and then immediately hitting pause for a bit to give the GPS time to actually kick in. It seems like the map is accurate after the fact, but something's not quite right.
    01-26-2017 09:28 AM
  7. littlebib's Avatar
    My understanding is that is correlates the watch's movement with the GPS. With this off, neither the watch nor the phone itself will continue to try to keep the calibration updated whether walking or running.


    Updating my thoughts here: don't follow my instructions. I went for a run today on a route that I know is 4.3 miles. I was running harder than normal and my miles were all off. With the Motion and Tracking turned off, I think it doesn't allow the GPS to actually calculate the distance it will only use the steps (which had previously calibrated to 8:00). The map was accurate, but the distance was off. Because I was running faster than normal I was covering more distance with the same number of steps.
    01-26-2017 02:18 PM
  8. matt3166's Avatar
    I'm running into similar issues with tracking and can't figure out what's more accurate. I went on a 4 and half mile run using the workout app and it saying I burned 489 total calories. A couple days later I did another same route and distance using runtastic and it says 634 total calories.
    I know pace etc can make a difference but I doubt almost 200 more calories difference.
    02-12-2017 12:41 AM
  9. tcuprof's Avatar
    I'm running into similar issues with tracking and can't figure out what's more accurate. I went on a 4 and half mile run using the workout app and it saying I burned 489 total calories. A couple days later I did another same route and distance using runtastic and it says 634 total calories.
    I know pace etc can make a difference but I doubt almost 200 more calories difference.
    Matt, what are the average heart rates for those two runs? The higher calorie count on the second run is probably due to a higher average heart rate, which may or may not have been accurate.
    02-15-2017 02:43 PM
  10. tcuprof's Avatar
    I have a question for those not using the stock Apple running app -- What changes in the running app would get you to switch from the 3rd party app you're using now? What are the most important features that are missing?
    02-20-2017 04:09 PM
  11. doogald's Avatar
    I have a question for those not using the stock Apple running app -- What changes in the running app would get you to switch from the 3rd party app you're using now? What are the most important features that are missing?
    - (*) interval support with haptics (not sound) at interval distance/time
    - (*) GPS lock indication (I'll wait until it's got a lock)
    - (*) option to turn off countdown
    - option to use buttons for stop/start and lap
    - choose data to show on the watch face(s) (time, lap time, distance, lap distance, current pace, average pace, etc.)
    - (*) data export/upload to external services like Garmin connect, Strava, Nike, etc.

    I don't need all of these, but at least the ones with (*)
    eyecrispy and rangerdeyo like this.
    02-20-2017 08:39 PM
  12. mumfoau's Avatar
    Running? What's running?
    eyecrispy, Tartarus and kharty like this.
    02-21-2017 05:15 AM
  13. Rob Phillips's Avatar
    Running? What's running?
    I think it's that you do when someone is chasing you with a weapon of some sort.
    Tartarus and kharty like this.
    02-21-2017 05:35 AM
  14. mumfoau's Avatar
    I think it's that you do when someone is chasing you with a weapon of some sort.
    Oh yeah, that I'm familiar with and in that case my app of choice is the phone app to dial 911
    Rob Phillips and Tartarus like this.
    02-21-2017 05:49 AM
  15. eyecrispy's Avatar
    I read this morning that Strava's latest version supports GPS.
    doogald and rangerdeyo like this.
    02-22-2017 07:41 AM
  16. rangerdeyo's Avatar
    - (*) interval support with haptics (not sound) at interval distance/time
    - (*) GPS lock indication (I'll wait until it's got a lock)
    - (*) option to turn off countdown
    - option to use buttons for stop/start and lap
    - choose data to show on the watch face(s) (time, lap time, distance, lap distance, current pace, average pace, etc.)
    - (*) data export/upload to external services like Garmin connect, Strava, Nike, etc.

    I don't need all of these, but at least the ones with (*)
    All of these. The 3rd party apps tend to support some of these individually. But it might be a moot point since Strava's app now supports the GPS on the watch.
    02-23-2017 04:41 PM
  17. tcuprof's Avatar
    - (*) interval support with haptics (not sound) at interval distance/time
    - (*) GPS lock indication (I'll wait until it's got a lock)
    - (*) option to turn off countdown
    - option to use buttons for stop/start and lap
    - choose data to show on the watch face(s) (time, lap time, distance, lap distance, current pace, average pace, etc.)
    - (*) data export/upload to external services like Garmin connect, Strava, Nike, etc.

    I don't need all of these, but at least the ones with (*)
    I don't recall where I read this, but my understanding is that the watch uses last known cell data to triangulate location and then the GPS takes over as soon as it gets a lock. Effectively, it is as good as starting with a lock. I know from comparing that my watch is at least as good as my Garmin regarding GPS accuracy and it's definitely faster getting a lock.

    I also would love to be able to use the buttons for stop!

    You can choose what data shows on the watch face now. For runs, I have duration, current pace, average pace, and distance.

    I manually enter every run in Garmin Connect because that's been my go to for stats for years. I'd love if the data could be exported!
    02-23-2017 04:54 PM
  18. tcuprof's Avatar
    All of these. The 3rd party apps tend to support some of these individually. But it might be a moot point since Strava's app now supports the GPS on the watch.
    Does Strava's app have the features Doogald listed?
    02-23-2017 04:55 PM
  19. rangerdeyo's Avatar
    Does Strava's app have the features Doogald listed?
    Not sure since I dont use that app. Strava seems to be the app of choice for the hardcore runners/cyclists. We need one of them to let us know
    02-23-2017 05:39 PM
  20. doogald's Avatar
    All of these. The 3rd party apps tend to support some of these individually. But it might be a moot point since Strava's app now supports the GPS on the watch.
    But Strava does not support haptics for intervals on the watch. (GPS lock - that's something the third party apps cannot do.)
    02-23-2017 05:55 PM
  21. doogald's Avatar
    I don't recall where I read this, but my understanding is that the watch uses last known cell data to triangulate location and then the GPS takes over as soon as it gets a lock. Effectively, it is as good as starting with a lock. I know from comparing that my watch is at least as good as my Garmin regarding GPS accuracy and it's definitely faster getting a lock.
    It's not as good at starting with a GPS lock. See https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/02/...on-review.html

    (Scroll down to "General workout/sport use" and then to "Optical HR & GPS accuracy".)

    tl;dr: The recorded distances tend to be short. Plus, of course, without the ability to export data, you cannot look at it yourself in another app.

    My Garmin Forerunner can start recording distance before I get a GPS lock, but it does allow me to wait until it definitively tells me that it has a lock, and 99% of the time, I don't mind waiting. All I want is the option. For people who just want to start without a lock, having the option to let me know when there is a lock doesn't prevent you from just starting, as you do now.

    As for data on the watch face, see again the DC Rainmaker blog review. There are some fields that I would like to have (lap distance and lap time, for example.)
    02-23-2017 06:06 PM
  22. rangerdeyo's Avatar
    But Strava does not support haptics for intervals on the watch. (GPS lock - that's something the third party apps cannot do.)
    My bad. I thought Strava supported intervals. Or does it, but uses sound?
    02-23-2017 06:30 PM
  23. doogald's Avatar
    My bad. I thought Strava supported intervals. Or does it, but uses sound?
    Strava the app on your phone appears to support intervals. It's pretty flexible (distance or time or even mixed - i.e., 400 meters followed by 30 seconds.) I don't know how it tells you - I haven't tried the app for an actual run.

    Strava the app on the Apple Watch is even more basic than the stock workouts app. There is a setting for whether to use imperial or metric units, and whether it uses auto-pause or not. That's it. You mentioned that the Strava's watch app now uses GPS, but the watch app is not all that capable.
    02-23-2017 07:47 PM
  24. eyecrispy's Avatar
    Strava the app on your phone appears to support intervals. It's pretty flexible (distance or time or even mixed - i.e., 400 meters followed by 30 seconds.) I don't know how it tells you - I haven't tried the app for an actual run.

    Strava the app on the Apple Watch is even more basic than the stock workouts app. There is a setting for whether to use imperial or metric units, and whether it uses auto-pause or not. That's it. You mentioned that the Strava's watch app now uses GPS, but the watch app is not all that capable.
    I actually like the Strava app on AW. Runkeeper crashed too many times for me to use again. I need dependability and Strava is the most dependable of the ones I've used.
    02-23-2017 07:54 PM
  25. tcuprof's Avatar
    It's not as good at starting with a GPS lock. See https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/02/...on-review.html

    (Scroll down to "General workout/sport use" and then to "Optical HR & GPS accuracy".)

    tl;dr: The recorded distances tend to be short. Plus, of course, without the ability to export data, you cannot look at it yourself in another app.
    I bookmarked the DC Rainmaker review and finally got around to reading it - well, some of it.

    In the review he says "In general, I find that it seems to short the actual distance of the run in almost every scenario (these are all GPS-on runs)."

    But what is odd about that statement is that he shows the AW and Garmin for four outdoor runs. For those four runs, the AW is shorter for two, longer for one, and virtually the same for the fourth. That doesn't really support his conclusion. One other observation about his comparison of GPS accuracy is that what is missing is some verification of the actual distance run. It matter less that the AW and Garmin differ in results than how close they are to the actual distance.

    For now at least, I remain convinced of what I said before - my watch is at least as good as my Garmin regarding GPS accuracy and it's definitely faster getting a lock.
    03-09-2017 01:49 PM
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