College athlete unions and the argument about compensation owed to these students...

[rayz336]

I feel like something needs to change, especially on the NCAA side. I think some of the things that are considered violations are ridiculous and student athletes should get a small sum. Money spent on student athletes is very rarely money from taxpayers, different pools of money, I think the unions are ok but it's just going to complicate the issue at hand.

 

[sinfool]

I've never made a pot shot anymore than yourself. Please quote my elementary potshots. I concur, give it a break bud. I never claimed to have a "higher" understanding yet I'm not sure we're having a conversation if only one side is acknowledging the other. ...and sorry, No, I don't see my opinion as a clear LACK of compromise either. Please elaborate. LOL

I simply stated my opinion and you stated yours. Yes, I agree our opinions as a whole seem to differ. I NEVER said the players should be paid! Yet, you still continue misrepresenting that is what I've said. I said they should have the "right" to make additional monies off their own likeness (i.e. signing autographs/meet & greets etc.) as any other citizen has the ability to.

Yes, this would be a "compromise" where as neither the NCAA nor the universities would be paying them. They would be earning their "own" money completely separate from the (2) entities. I don't know how many times I can say it so you can understand.

You're still implying that the relationship between these schools & students is purely academic when it's clearly not, ...this is big business so to assume otherwise is flawed logic to begin with.

....If your feel that my view of compromising falls under your blanket statement that they're already getting paid enough, then that's a different story but at least say that. ...Geez

Please stop misrepresenting what I'm saying here. I understand others opinions...they make enough, they're already compensated, if only I had these same opportunities, it's never enough, they'll want more etc....and IMO, these are all jealous blanket statements that have absolutely NOTHING to do with my argument.

I can make the same jealous view about CEO's, it's irrelevant. I have no problem with the NCAA or universities making as much money as they can but not under false pretenses.

I'm trying to have an adult conversation & I wish you would put your ego aside and do the same. If you still can't understand what I'm saying then I bid you ado. Enjoy patting each other on the back.

 

[Septembersrain]

People will always disagree. Can we agree to disagree peacefully? =]


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[Just_Me_D]

Re: College athlete unions and the argument about compensation owed to these stud...

Wow, you're really reaching by trying to equate a Girl Scout cookie fund raiser with a multibillion dollar farm system business

No, I am not. You mentioned college athletes being exploited, and I stated that kids are exploited long before reaching college and gave the Girl Scout cookie thing as an example. It too is a big time money maker and have been for a long time.

. ...and BTW, my reference to them risking their bodies was in response to the other posters comment who alluded student athletes were heavily compensated simply because they received health insurance/training services.

No problem.

Sorry, but I think that's the least the NCAA can do for making millions off them when they could potentially be injured for life etc.

I disagree. Those athletes are trading their talents for playing sports in exchange for a free or significantly reduce college education. Period. They know it, the school knows it and you know it. Some of those kids are courted by various colleges long before they graduate from high school and they end up choosing to go to the college that would benefit them best in regard to his or her education, livelihood, and in regard to getting to the pro level.

I swear, you guys can't seem to separate your opinions from what I actually said here.

And you clearly don't have the stomach to entertain an opposing viewpoint.

From the beginning, I clearly said that BOTH sides use each other which is why I feel a compromise should be made here...

Despite what you claimed at the beginning, the rest of your argument does not seek a compromise, unless that compromise is in the form of getting the student athlete a paycheck for playing sports. If so, I don't have a problem with your opinion, with the exception that I'm in disagreement.

What does the privilege or choice to play a sport have to do with someone NOT having the right to earn a specific monetary income? ...especially if you DON'T have a scholarship?

The student DOES NOT have to play sports, and can choose to work a local gig like many other college students do. You want him or her to be paid to play sports while in college, and I disagree. College is not the pros, and playing sports in college is a privilege, NOT A RIGHT!

That's like doing an unpaid internship and that company saying you can't make money working elsewhere.

I don't see it that way.

Let me explain the hypocrisy again. The entire NCAA system is corrupted.

In what manner?

The NCAA/universities vehemently proclaim they don't capitalize off its student athletes identities when in reality they clearly do.

Explain how they do.

According to these universities, students are "not" employees.

True

Whether or not students agree is irrelevant.

Okay

All the while, these same students aren't allowed to capitalize off their own name/identity but the university does?

You make it seem as if the students had no input in anything when in fact, those students chose to go to their respective colleges & universities based on what they thought was best for them. They knew going in what they were getting into. How many straight A non student athletes have been given tuition-free scholarships simply because they were deemed brilliant? Do you not think that those kids don't go around advertising for the school voluntarily by wearing a shirt bearing the school's name. The school didn't make them wear it. It's the same with student athletes. Playing sports gets those kids noticed by sports lover like us and by pro scouts. That in and of itself is self-advertising.

Do you not remember when the Johnny Manziel autograph scandal broke

Yes...

Hypocrisies were exposed which showed the NCAA was selling Johnny "Football" jerseys on their official site yet they claimed they don't make money off athletes likenesses.

True...and yet, Johnny football also benefitted. He has been on various magazine covers, newspaper articles, TV talk shows, commercials, and is currently preparing to be drafted into the NFL where he is slated to make millions.

Online jersey sales highlight NCAA's hypocrisy on amateurism - College Football - Andy Staples - SI.com

The NFL works with & uses the NCAA as their minor league farm system. So, no matter how you want to spin it, if you choose to pursue professional football aspiraitions ...regardless if you want the education or not, there's not much of a choice but going through the motions of being a "college" student. Collegiate sports has become BIG business first, education second so it's ridiculous for the NCAA to still proclaim it's the other way around. As you said yourself, the ones who expect the big payday aren't sticking around anyway....& both sides know it.

The same can be said of the unions associated with the education system. They send home a bunch of non-educational material wanting the student or parents to sell merchandise for them in the name of education.

 

[Just_Me_D]

People will always disagree. Can we agree to disagree peacefully? =]


•Sent from the colored one using Tapatalk•

It's all good, my friend. Both sides are bringing up good points, in my opinion....

 

[anon(4698833)]

I didn't misrepresent anything...whether it's making money on the side or getting paid from the NCAA directly, it's a compensation that could not be regulated or controlled in a fair and constructive way, leaving student athletes in a scenario where their focus gets hazed by their own business moves, obligations to make money, etc. It's easy to say "Let them make money..." while also completely ignoring the issues that can arise around such...that's why you're having such an easy time laughing at anyone who replies differently than you in this thread. Generic demands without truly considering the various consequences and issues that would follow and envelope such things.

As far as your pot shots...weren't you the way calling us jealous? Calling us hypocrites? You've got 22 posts in our community...and you decide to take these pot shots right off the rip without any justification to doing so? This conversation (with you) was done before it started...you can't accept that other people might disagree with you, so instead of continuing with a focus on the topic, you dig into the members responding...and then you get it back and you flip out.

 

[sinfool]

So you didn't misrepresent what I said? You repeatedly quoted me as saying they should be paid. Never did I say or allude they "must" be paid. I said they should have the right, not the obligation to profit off their own identity. I most certainly accept everyone else's opinion but that's not what's being debated here. ...I presented an argument along with my opinion. Every statement you made above is irrelevant to my argument.

How or why we should control peoples free will to promote their own brand is another argument entirely. My argument is either valid or invalid. No matter what I say, you continue to deflect & twist my statements instead of addressing my actually argument...so here it is again.

As an American and a firm believer in capitalism, YES, "Let (EVERYONE, including) them make money". ...How does someone else have the right to dictate my ability to earn income from my own identity/image?

Making money on the side has nothing to do with the NCAA so why should they have the right to regulate it? Thousands of students receive scholarships yet ONLY the students who are athletes are barred from capitalizing from their own identity? If Bill Gates kid gets an academic scholarship and decides he wants to charge people to sign their Windows laptops or do a speaking event, it's not a problem but if an athlete does, it is. Then, on top of that the NCAA capitalizes off these students likenesses and at the same time they deny them the right to do so for themselves like every other American has the right to. Do you not see the hypocrisy here?

Life isn't fair & some have been given more privileges than others but it's not my job or anyone else's to control their ability to make money because of it. I can choose to be jealous of another's athletic ability, fame or all the opportunities these same individuals might receive but I don't. I choose to be objective when I see a fundamental hypocrisy and hope others would do the same for me when I'm being exploited.

You can't sum everything up to ...well that's the way things are and they agreed to it. Society would never progress with this attitude.

Also, I presented a specific scenario not a generic demand but you chose to interpret it that way instead of respecting my opinion. I obviously understand that bringing changes would also bring a new dynamic of issues but that is also irrelevant to my argument and TBH, not saying it's right, ...but it's rather naive to think that behind the scenes these same big name student athletes aren't already hazing their focus by plotting monetary avenues.

So again, I understand and respect everyone's opinion and while I have no problem with those who disagree I do have an issue when others clearly & blatantly misrepresent my argument by selectively generalizing & making statements like, ... "So because the NCAA makes so much money....You gotta do better than that." ...or by insinuating that I'm some how insulting others because I said... "I wish I had ..blah blah" are ...yes, jealous. Sorry, but that isn't a potshot, it's just an opinion. So next time you create a thread asking for opinions, please heed your own critiquing advice by respecting others opinions as well.

Maybe, I'll just start my own thread asking whether sports teams should stop exploiting Native Americans... I wonder what your stance is on that. BTW, nice avatar. ....(see, now that could be construed as a pot shot)

 

[anon(4698833)]

My opinion is you're an *****...see how that works? You can call your petty insults bananas for all I care, it doesn't change the fact that instead of continuing the discussion about the subject, you decided to make it personal. Whether it was your opinion is irrelevant...a spade is still a spade. And no, I don't actually think you're an *****, I was using it to make a point.

And for the last time, I'll repeat that I didn't misconstrue anything you said...if you go back to your first post, the VERY first conflicting point you made was the fact that a compromise was needed because the NCAA was making more than professional sports teams and monetizing the student athletes. What is to misconstrue here...your point was that the NCAA makes a ton of money off athletes, and the students deserve to be monetarily compensated (whether through direct payment or their own pursuits...that wasn't really discussed initially, but it's irrelevant because it's all about compensation).

I'm going by YOUR OWN WORDS...I didn't make this stuff up, I didn't filter it or twist it or anything...I just responded to what you said! (without taking shots at you personally I might add, lol!)

NOW you're starting to back track a bit into a more diplomatic "acceptance" of other opinions, but why try to make me seem like the one who stepped out of line here? Point fingers at me while you boast about what "should be happening" as if I'm some sort of detractor of American rights, lol! I think student athletes should be able to have jobs and legitimate outlets of income development outside of their collegiate athletic career. OUTSIDE of it, and NOT RELATED TO IT. Allowing monetary transactions controlled by the student athletes opens up a can of worms SO large and SO deep, that we could sit and discuss this for 100 years and still probably not touch on all the ways it could backfire on the student AND the school...and for what? A few bucks in their bank account?

One portion of your argument that I will compromise on is the scholarship portion. Perhaps the regulation should be focused on those athletes that receive scholarships. I mean that is the basic and core reasoning for the scholarships in the first place, right? To remove the expense portion of a college education/athletic career so that the student can focus ON the education/athletic career...or at the very least, provide a catalyst to make the experience easier for said focus properties.

 

[anon(4698833)]

As far as my avatar goes...any person who would get offended by it can get f*cked anyway, no discussion or understanding of my opinion necessary on that one. Apples and oranges in relation to this discussion honestly.

 

[sinfool]

Unlike you, I haven't intentionally insulted anyone ...but yes, you have misconstrued my original argument and subsequent opinion regarding others responses, which IMO were rooted in jealously. Please re-read my OP and subsequent posts. Feel free to quote me as to where I personally insulted anyone then I can make an apology.

As a preface to my actually argument, I referenced how much money the NCAA makes just to show that it's a big business & not a non-profit scholastic organization. It doesn't matter nor do I care how much the NCAA or professional teams make. You selectively chose to latch onto the words "a compromise has to me made" as my argument when in fact that's not what my argument was whatsoever. My argument is about students rights, not how much money is made on either side.

Good or bad, you own your own identity and despite what we may like to control, it's impossible to differentiate when/what parts of that said identity are considered to be inside or outside the realm of collegiate athletics.

As evident by your compromise comment, I commend you for finally understanding at least part of my point but you still aren't putting all the dots together in terms of this current systems fundamental flaws. What about collegiate athletes who don't receive scholarships at all? ...or, even if regulations only applied towards athletic scholarships, than what about students who have the ability to get an athletic and/or an academic scholarship?

So, basically you're stance is...if you want to be a collegiate athlete, no matter what, you have to give up the rights to your own identity?

Honestly, if you go back and re-read my posts, it's rather clear that I continued to proclaim the same stance and never did I waiver or back track. I may have come off as defensive but that was only after you misrepresented my point with your initial response. Your condescending post sparked everything. In retrospect, please go back and re-read your initial response. As I said, I have no problem with others opinions but I'm not going to let my POV be circumvented or misconstrued into something it's not.

BTW, the Native American comment was a just a joke/poke at you....but it is an example that shows that even though you may not feel someone else is being exploited (the Redskins name change etc.) ...it doesn't mean they necessarily aren't.

 

[anon(4698833)]

So, basically you're stance is...if you want to be a collegiate athlete, no matter what, you have to give up the rights to your own identity?

Now who's misconstruing who? lol! I'm done arguing whether you think I didn't fairly represent what you said, in the end, I feel I clearly did and you do not so it is what it is. As far as giving up the rights to their identities, that is ridiculous...and I never implied such. Making MONEY on their identities? Absolutely they should give up the right to do that...that is the focus of what I am standing behind...the student athletes should not have the right to sell themselves (in whichever way you want to portray that). That is my opinion on the matter.

To add to this, I did research a bit into the unionizing of student athletes, and it appears to strictly apply to full ride students.

 

[sinfool]

Now who's misconstruing who? lol! I'm done arguing whether you think I didn't fairly represent what you said, in the end, I feel I clearly did and you do not so it is what it is. As far as giving up the rights to their identities, that is ridiculous...and I never implied such. Making MONEY on their identities? Absolutely they should give up the right to do that...that is the focus of what I am standing behind...the student athletes should not have the right to sell themselves (in whichever way you want to portray that). That is my opinion on the matter.

To add to this, I did research a bit into the unionizing of student athletes, and it appears to strictly apply to full ride students.

Like I said, we obviously disagree on many levels but I just couldn't help thinking of this thread when I heard the NCAA lost its recent antitrust case against Ed O'Bannon/student athletes based on the very points I raised, i.e. protecting their rights to prosper off their own likenesses etc.

Judge rules against NCAA in landmark O'Bannon antitrust case | FOX Sports

 

[anon(4698833)]

I think the limitations they put on this where it only focuses on certain athletes is going to be another big battle we'll all watch unfold in the future...with so much of society playing the "Everyone is a winner" game, I can see a big can of worms being opened with this judgement.