Why is the climate change debate a political one in the United States?

the_tech_eater

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And here is the major news. It is now fact that the pipeline will only create 35 permanent jobs. This temp jobs won't do anything after they are gone. And you still have to consider the environmental impact a leak would have around the pipeline.

Not to mention the amount of private land has to be set aside for a private corporation. I can't find any reasonable argument to justify this pipeline. Potential environmental problems, people will be upset at their land being taken, a bunch of temp jobs that will be gone as soon as the construction ends.


What reasonable long term goals can actually come from this being constructed?

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When has a construction project ever created permanent, career like jobs? Never. That's how construction is. When a new road is built, private land has to be purchased, and workers hired. When the road project is done, those workers are let go. BUT those workers now have job experience, and the chances of them getting a job are better. This is exactly how the keystone XL project will be. And just for the record, Obama in the past has been a huge advocate for building new roads and schools and such because he said... Wait for it.... It would create jobs.... Construction jobs. A construction job is a construction job whether it's building a new highway, school, the new World Trade Center, or the keystone XL pipeline, and they all have one thing in common: they will all be finished at some point. So it's ridiculous to argue against the pipeline just because the jobs aren't permanent, because no construction job or project is.


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A895

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When has a construction project ever created permanent, career like jobs? Never. That's how construction is. When a new road is built, private land has to be purchased, and workers hired. When the road project is done, those workers are let go. BUT those workers now have job experience, and the chances of them getting a job are better. This is exactly how the keystone XL project will be. And just for the record, Obama in the past has been a huge advocate for building new roads and schools and such because he said... Wait for it.... It would create jobs.... Construction jobs. A construction job is a construction job whether it's building a new highway, school, the new World Trade Center, or the keystone XL pipeline, and they all have one thing in common: they will all be finished at some point. So it's ridiculous to argue against the pipeline just because the jobs aren't permanent, because no construction job or project is.


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You are cherry picking. Not only will those jobs be temporary, but are we going ignore potential environmental problems and the seizure of private citizen owned land for a corporation?

I thought conservatives loved the constitution?

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the_tech_eater

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Seizure of private property? You mean purchase of private property? How is this any different from a new road?


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the_tech_eater

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I think it would be accurate to say that neither of us are going to change the others view point, right?


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the_tech_eater

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So let me ask everyone in this thread:
On a personal level what have you done to reduce your emissions?

For myself, I own a diesel Vw Jetta that gets 45 mpg. I also try to be as responsible as possible to take actions that will help the earth.


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palandri

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Seizure of private property? You mean purchase of private property? How is this any different from a new road?


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A road becomes a "public" road. The pipeline is for the benefit of the oil company. Most of the oil flowing through the pipe goes to gulf and goes on the open market. They call it an open market, but it's a price fixing open market. Since oil prices have dropped, they are cutting back on production to jack the price up again. That's price fixing. Thats how laissez faire capitalism works.
 

palandri

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So let me ask everyone in this thread:
On a personal level what have you done to reduce your emissions?

For myself, I own a diesel Vw Jetta that gets 45 mpg. I also try to be as responsible as possible to take actions that will help the earth.


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LED lighting and taking the train to work.
 

the_tech_eater

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A road becomes a "public" road. The pipeline is for the benefit of the oil company. Most of the oil flowing through the pipe goes to gulf and goes on the open market. They call it an open market, but it's a price fixing open market. Since oil prices have dropped, they are cutting back on production to jack the price up again. That's price fixing. Thats how laissez faire capitalism works.

But that still doesn't address his claim of seizing private property. If buying private property for the use of a new road or oil pipeline is seizing it, and against the constitution, it wouldn't matter what the use for it will be after its "seized".

And let's remember that it's OPEC that's price fixing. I'd much rather get our oil from our northern neighbors than a cartel!


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hydrogen3

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I think it would be accurate to say that neither of us are going to change the others view point, right?


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Drive a Toyota Prius 56.7 mpg. I have my Ford Raptor for hunting. Also use LED lighting. And a programable thermostat. Looking at the solar panel option.
 

hydrogen3

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But that still doesn't address his claim of seizing private property. If buying private property for the use of a new road or oil pipeline is seizing it, and against the constitution, it wouldn't matter what the use for it will be after its "seized".

And let's remember that it's OPEC that's price fixing. I'd much rather get our oil from our northern neighbors than a cartel!


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If the land is purchased at fair market value how is that being seized??
 

ItnStln

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For myself, I own a diesel Vw Jetta that gets 45 mpg. I also try to be as responsible as possible to take actions that will help the earth.


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How do you like it? I'm looking for a new car and that's in my top five list. Also is the Passat TDI with a manual. I'm told that the Jetta TDI isn't available in manual anymore.
 

the_tech_eater

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How do you like it? I'm looking for a new car and that's in my top five list. Also is the Passat TDI with a manual. I'm told that the Jetta TDI isn't available in manual anymore.

Mine is an 06 model and its automatic. I'm loving it! I would totally recommend buying a Vw! Just got some new headlights for it
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ItnStln

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the_tech_eater

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Nice! I've never heard anything negative about the Jetta, especially the Jetta TDI. I was driving to SC with my brother in law a couple of years ago and his 2010 Jetta TDI got excellent mileage.

The only negative thing I know of is the complexity of the build and the cost of parts. Other than that it's perfect!


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ItnStln

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My Jetta has 215k lol


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I hear the Jetta TDIs will last forever!
The only negative thing I know of is the complexity of the build and the cost of parts. Other than that it's perfect!


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I've heard that the diesel engines are expensive to work on. But i also am told that they'll last forever.