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  1. #26  
    GingerSnapsBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    I'd have to know when did this mental problem surface. How long did he have it? I haven't paid that much attention to the news to see how long he had it. If it was recent and she took him shooting, maybe. He still made his own bed though.

    If mom took him out when he was a kid and then he developed the mental problem recently - that's where I have a problem. Even if he had this since childhood, there are plenty of people like Sean said that live lnear guns and don't go on a shooting spree. Yes, I do think guns should be kept locked up away from children or, but I'd hardly call a twenty year old a child.

    I don't have kids and won't ever have kids, but I do think if my child was mentally unstable, I'd probably protect myself by keeping guns locked up. That I can agree with you on, but then again, he could have built a bomb or used a machete to do the same damage. What do you lock up around a mentally unhinged adult? Knives? Rocks? SUVs? Guns? Sticks? Hammers?

    In any event, the mother is deceased. Blaming her won't help bring the parents of those children any comfort. Blaming the shooter won't help either, however, IMO, when the shooter is killed in situations like this, I'd much rather see him commit suicide or have death by cop than tie up thousands of dollars in court costs only to rot in prison for the rest of his life in a lifestyle that is probably better than some Americans.

    Too bad letting an inmate like that loose in GenPop is illegal. He wouldn't last an hour.

    The news said something about the dad being shot as well as the mother. Did that pan out? I heard it both ways as well as the shooter's brother was involved as well and the younger brother shot the older brother.
    Last edited by NobodyListenstoLaura; 12-17-2012 at 04:26 PM. Reason: Fixing bad grammar
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  2. #27  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by NobodyListenstoLaura View Post

    The news said something about the dad being shot as well as the mother. Did that pan out? I heard it both ways as well as the shooter's brother was involved as well and the younger brother shot the older brother.
    I do not blame the mother for what her son did, I simply stated the facts. She taught her son how to use guns, and she was killed with one of her own guns. If someone else wants to blame her, I don't know, but it won't be me. As far as the Dad goes, it is my understanding the couple were divorced and he was no where around the shootings and therefore wasn't harmed. As far as the brother goes, the killer had his Brother from NJ ID on him which is why the police first thought he was the actual shooter. The Bother from NJ was not otherwise involved here in any way.
  3. #28  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by NobodyListenstoLaura View Post
    The news said something about the dad being shot as well as the mother. Did that pan out? I heard it both ways as well as the shooter's brother was involved as well and the younger brother shot the older brother.
    Dad is alive & well - older brother was at work in NYC when his social media blew up telling him he was an evil SOB for shooting up a bunch of kids... turns out much of the media's "real time" reporting early on in the incident was flat out bovine processed feed grains.
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  4. #29  
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    Default Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Rose View Post
    I do not blame the mother for what her son did, I simply stated the facts. She taught her son how to use guns, and she was killed with one of her own guns. If someone else wants to blame her, I don't know, but it won't be me. As far as the Dad goes, it is my understanding the couple were divorced and he was no where around the shootings and therefore wasn't harmed. As far as the brother goes, the killer had his Brother from NJ ID eon him which is why the police first thought he was the actual shooter. The Bother from NJ was not otherwise involved here in any way.
    Where I think the mom has to bear some of the blame is not recognizing that her son was getting worse and getting him the proper care. This is something we all need to be better educated on. I also feel teaching to shoot is one thing. Having the guns in the house readily available to her mentally unstable son is another.

    Also on a side note WBBC was not at the funeral today. The police presence was a help I'm sure.
  5. #30  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by phreddyl View Post
    Also on a side note WBBC was not at the funeral today. The police presence was a help I'm sure.
    Good... I hope they stay away from all of them... and I wouldn't object if any Newtown citizenry taking up high powered floodlights to shine at media people and their cameras should the media become even more excessively annoying than they've already been.
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  6. Thread AuthorThread Author   #31  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Rose View Post
    You and I will simply have to agree to disagree on this, Sean. Because I do think she made a poor choice and she paid for it. After all, she was murdered by her son who used her gun to kill her.
    So you feel the mom was reckless in her actions of simply having firearms? We have no idea how secure these weapons were kept, for all we know, they were kept in a locked down safe and he was able to get into it and bypass the safeguards the mother put into place to prevent access PERIOD to them. How many times has a child done something that baffled you in how they figured out how to do it? I've watched my niece take the iPad at our house and unlock things on it that i personally thought were pretty well hidden within menus and inaccessible to a child...she goes right in and bam, instant access. She also remembered our alarm code for our condo simply because she always runs in with us when we disarm it and stands with us because the noise scares her...she's 8 years old and visually recognized the keys hit (and ended up turning it off for us one day to my complete shock!).

    If these guns were just laying around...sure, I'd venture to say that'd be plain out negligence (though she is dead so what does it matter now?). But we don't know what the deal was, and going by the stories I've read and the fact that she was a teacher of small children, I'd just as easily assume she had them fully locked down vs. sitting out in the open.

    Either way, i don't think putting ANY blame on the mom is called for...that's just my opinion. The lady was murdered by this same scum bag, god only knows why.
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  7. #32  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Just saw the coolest thing on The Voice, they started the show by having the contestants and the coaches sing Hallelujah, holding candles and each had signs with the names and age a victim. This manly man could not stop tears from flowing! Very nicely done The Voice! And they didn't mention it either, they just then went right in to the show, it was VERY classy. They just did the song and showed the names.

    Last edited by pkcable; 12-17-2012 at 10:36 PM.
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  8. #33  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanHRCC View Post
    So you feel the mom was reckless in her actions of simply having firearms? We have no idea how secure these weapons were kept, for all we know, they were kept in a locked down safe and he was able to get into it and bypass the safeguards the mother put into place to prevent access PERIOD to them. How many times has a child done something that baffled you in how they figured out how to do it? I've watched my niece take the iPad at our house and unlock things on it that i personally thought were pretty well hidden within menus and inaccessible to a child...she goes right in and bam, instant access. She also remembered our alarm code for our condo simply because she always runs in with us when we disarm it and stands with us because the noise scares her...she's 8 years old and visually recognized the keys hit (and ended up turning it off for us one day to my complete shock!).

    If these guns were just laying around...sure, I'd venture to say that'd be plain out negligence (though she is dead so what does it matter now?). But we don't know what the deal was, and going by the stories I've read and the fact that she was a teacher of small children, I'd just as easily assume she had them fully locked down vs. sitting out in the open.

    Either way, i don't think putting ANY blame on the mom is called for...that's just my opinion. The lady was murdered by this same scum bag, god only knows why.
    Believe me, i'm not against guns. I'm a long time Life Member of the N.R.A, but i am against irresponsibility. We don't know if those guns were locked down, or not. We don't know that moron's reason for doing what he did, and we may never know. I'm giving my personal opinion...I would NEVER teach a person to shoot, if i knew that he had mental problems, and was taking or maybe not taking his meds. I would never condone what he did, but his mother, God rest her soul, must bare some of the responsibility for his actions. Sorry, if you don't agree with me, but that's how i feel.
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  9. #34  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by kch50428 View Post
    . turns out much of the media's "real time" reporting early on in the incident was flat out bovine processed feed grains.
    I know it's wrong, but that made me laugh.
    Dude! You slapped a fish. You punched it! Why would you hit it?

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  10. #35  
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    Default Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by grunt0300 View Post
    Believe me, i'm not against guns. I'm a long time Life Member of the N.R.A, but i am against irresponsibility. We don't know if those guns were locked down, or not. We don't know that moron's reason for doing what he did, and we may never know. I'm giving my personal opinion...I would NEVER teach a person to shoot, if i knew that he had mental problems, and was taking or maybe not taking his meds. I would never condone what he did, but his mother, God rest her soul, must bare some of the responsibility for his actions. Sorry, if you don't agree with me, but that's how i feel.
    I agree with you. If we don't start taking responsibility for the mental health of our children and get them the help they need then this will continue to happen
  11. Thread AuthorThread Author   #36  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    There have been ZERO details showing a negligent storage of the firearms, lack of mental therapy and counseling to the shooter or anything that shows some kind of "fault" on the mom's part. It's foolish to go off assumptions, even i feel a bit foolish assuming the weapons were stored properly...but what we know so far is this kid shot a bunch of innocent people, execution style and also murdered his mom. I'm not going to start pointing the finger at a woman who was murdered by this same sick piece of sh*t when there's nothing to promote such action...that's just me.
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  12. #37  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    bovine processed feed grains
    Quote Originally Posted by NobodyListenstoLaura View Post
    I know it's wrong, but that made me laugh.
    Not wrong to laugh... No need to be profane when a creative euphemism will do.
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  13. #38  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanHRCC View Post
    There have been ZERO details showing a negligent storage of the firearms, lack of mental therapy and counseling to the shooter or anything that shows some kind of "fault" on the mom's part. It's foolish to go off assumptions, even i feel a bit foolish assuming the weapons were stored properly...but what we know so far is this kid shot a bunch of innocent people, execution style and also murdered his mom. I'm not going to start pointing the finger at a woman who was murdered by this same sick piece of sh*t when there's nothing to promote such action...that's just me.

    WhatEVER happened it was a sad sad day for all involved! I'm just praying for the lives of those lost and for peace for those around them, as difficult as that may be for them. Smarter folks than I can ask questions and look at stuff and make plans and help to prevent stuff like this in the future, but the sad truth is stuff like this will happen again, no matter what we do.
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  14. #39  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...



    “I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters.” --Frank Lloyd Wright
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  15. #40  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanHRCC View Post
    There have been ZERO details showing a negligent storage of the firearms, lack of mental therapy and counseling to the shooter or anything that shows some kind of "fault" on the mom's part. It's foolish to go off assumptions, even i feel a bit foolish assuming the weapons were stored properly...but what we know so far is this kid shot a bunch of innocent people, execution style and also murdered his mom. I'm not going to start pointing the finger at a woman who was murdered by this same sick piece of sh*t when there's nothing to promote such action...that's just me.
    I'm not arguing with you Sean, but as you yourself say, so far there have been ZERO details released to the general public. Let's wait and see.
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  16. #41  
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    Default Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by phreddyl View Post
    I agree with you. If we don't start taking responsibility for the mental health of our children and get them the help they need then this will continue to happen
    Quote Originally Posted by phreddyl View Post
    Where I think the mom has to bear some of the blame is not recognizing that her son was getting worse and getting him the proper care. This is something we all need to be better educated on. I also feel teaching to shoot is one thing. Having the guns in the house readily available to her mentally unstable son is another.
    Unfortunately, there just aren't enough resources out there for people with metal health issues. As long as the health care system continues to take a back seat on this, people that need help are not going to get it, and what happened last Friday is going to continue to happen over and over again. Could be your town or mine, without the proper mental health care resources for people like this nobody is safe....


    Sent from my LTE iPad Mini using Tapatalk HD.
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  17. #42  
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    Default Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Rose View Post
    Unfortunately, there just aren't enough resources out there for people with metal health issues. As long as the health care system continues to take a back seat on this, people that need help are not going to get it, and what happened last Friday is going to continue to happen over and over again. Could be your town or mine, without the proper mental health care resources for people like this nobody is safe....


    Sent from my LTE iPad Mini using Tapatalk HD.
    That's why I feel this issue is way more important than gun control right now.
  18. #43  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by phreddyl View Post
    That's why I feel this issue is way more important than gun control right now.
    "Gun control" isn't about the guns - it's about the control. Take away people's ability to defend themselves from a tyrannical government, and you'll get exactly that.
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  19. #44  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by kch50428 View Post
    "Gun control" isn't about the guns - it's about the control. Take away people's ability to defend themselves from a tyrannical government, and you'll get exactly that.
    Back up a minute. We're not talking about a tyrannical government here. I'm a defender of the 2nd Ammendment, but not a defender of an irresponsible person who keeps guns readily available to a mentally unstable person. When she died, her stupidity died with her, but what about those innocent children?
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  20. Thread AuthorThread Author   #45  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by grunt0300 View Post
    Back up a minute. We're not talking about a tyrannical government here. I'm a defender of the 2nd Ammendment, but not a defender of an irresponsible person who keeps guns readily available to a mentally unstable person. When she died, her stupidity died with her, but what about those innocent children?
    The definition of tyranny is oppressive power...the definition of oppression an unjust exercise of power. Unjust, oppressive power...this does not only represent an extremist leader who kills at whim and sends his country into an anarchy only imagined in movies, this reflects the moves of a government against it's founding rights in which it supersedes it's citizens in taking liberty of removing their abilities in the name of "safety and protection".

    I'd say we're clearly talking about a tyrannical government.
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  21. #46  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanHRCC View Post
    The definition of tyranny is oppressive power...the definition of oppression an unjust exercise of power. Unjust, oppressive power...this does not only represent an extremist leader who kills at whim and sends his country into an anarchy only imagined in movies, this reflects the moves of a government against it's founding rights in which it supersedes it's citizens in taking liberties of removing their abilities in the name of "safety and protection".

    I'd say we're clearly talking about a tyrannical government.
    I thought we were talking about a tragedy in Connecticut? An irresponsible gun owner, who started a chain of events, which led to not only her death, but the deaths of children. My mistake.
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  22. Thread AuthorThread Author   #47  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by grunt0300 View Post
    I thought we were talking about a tragedy in Connecticut? An irresponsible gun owner, who started a chain of events, which led to not only her death, but the deaths of children. My mistake.
    Explain exactly how she was an irresponsible gun owner please...by your logic, Glock itself is responsible as it created the gun which was purchased by the mother...if we're going to go on the "chain of events" stance, start from the beginning.

    Also, what i said goes hand in hand with the discussion at hand...please don't try to make it seem like i'm skewing completely off topic, gun control and this event are essentially bed fellows now unfortunately, which is my entire point actually.
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  23. #48  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanHRCC View Post
    Explain exactly how she was an irresponsible gun owner please...by your logic, Glock itself is responsible as it created the gun which was purchased by the mother...if we're going to go on the "chain of events" stance, start from the beginning.

    Also, what i said goes hand in hand with the discussion at hand...please don't try to make it seem like i'm skewing completely off topic, gun control and this event are essentially bed fellows now unfortunately, which is my entire point actually.
    The news media, actually Fox News, reported that she left her guns UNSECURED. She was in the process of having him committed to a mental institution, and he found out about it. Her guns were still unsecured, and he capped her with a Bushmaster.223. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I believe in that saying, but throw in "irresponsibility", and that changes everything.

    P.S. To me Glock is combat tupperware. I'll stick with my Sig.
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  24. Thread AuthorThread Author   #49  
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by grunt0300 View Post
    The news media, actually Fox News, reported that she left her guns UNSECURED. She was in the process of having him committed to a mental institution, and he found out about it. Her guns were still unsecured, and he capped her with a Bushmaster.223. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I believe in that saying, but throw in "irresponsibility", and that changes everything.

    P.S. To me Glock is combat tupperware. I'll stick with my Sig.
    Fox News said...lol. Reading your comments in the past, I hope you're smarter than to put much investment into those words...

    As far as your opinion on Glock, people will always have preferences...I'm of the opinion that the gun is only as effective as the person shooting it, and having both a Sig and a Glock (duty weapon), i can shoot just as accurately with both firearms and feel the Glock is a more effortless ownership experience. To be honest though, I've always found it kind of funny having sour look at a gun, "combat tupperware" that's cute...gets the job done though, and stays accurate without any maintenance really.

    The person responsible is the shooter...period. Nobody has enough information to start making pie in the sky assumptions so we'll go with what we know, guy gets gun, shoots mom and a bunch of other people, kills self...blame goes to shooter.
    "Speed has never killed anyone; suddenly becoming stationary...that's what gets you." - Jeremy Clarkson
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    Default Re: Tragic shooting at an elementary school in CT...

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanHRCC View Post
    Fox News said...lol. Reading your comments in the past, I hope you're smarter than to put much investment into those words...

    As far as your opinion on Glock, people will always have preferences...I'm of the opinion that the gun is only as effective as the person shooting it, and having both a Sig and a Glock (duty weapon), i can shoot just as accurately with both firearms and feel the Glock is a more effortless ownership experience. To be honest though, I've always found it kind of funny having sour look at a gun, "combat tupperware" that's cute...gets the job done though, and stays accurate without any maintenance really.

    The person responsible is the shooter...period. Nobody has enough information to start making pie in the sky assumptions so we'll go with what we know, guy gets gun, shoots mom and a bunch of other people, kills self...blame goes to shooter.
    O.K. Sean, let's agree to disagree.
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