- 01-17-2010, 09:11 PM #26
@blink I am not a very religious man myself, but if a person who is wants to pray for me then I would embrace that and take it for what it is. To the rest of this thread, what are your thoughts on the comments of Pat Robertson in the wake of the quake that hit Haiti? Do you support those comments and think that the people of Haiti had this coming to them? Or do you think that this was just the result of the earth moving about 5 miles down. Again not trying to pick a fight or attack your views, but if you do agree with Pat then I am afraid we can no longer have any real discussions.
Blink, They (the Knowledgeable's) of this world say that 15 is the age of reason. When one has the basic skills to begin making decisions for themselves. Weather Good or Bad. It's obvious you feel you made the right choice. All the words written in Webster's wouldn't persuade you otherwise. Yet these "knowledgeable's" don't take into account that we are "Individuals". They try and Group everyone into catagories they have chosen for their proof that their hypothesis is truth. I have a few questions for you though. You may answer if you like. If not I'll understand. You say you didn't understand the message of the Gospel, you still don't, therefore you walked away from it. Do you walk away from "All" things that come your way you don't fully understand? Or, do you ever take the time and Explore these new areas of life to make Knowledgeable decisions? I hope it's the latter.
As for "look, this is the last place i should be seeking these long term questions".
Why do you want to put GOD in a Box? Do you think He's Not educated enough or Computer savie to use a small, minute Forum such as this to touch people, to heal Broken Hearts, to mend relationships, to whisper into the ear of His Chosen "my son, why do you hide from me"? "My Daughter, here I am, if you let me, I will HEAL you". "Come to me, all who are heavy Laden and I will give you rest".
If I may, will you let me PROVE to you wrong about prayer? God "answers the prayer's of His People. When I pray I "Expect" GREAT things to happen. That includes that vale of darkness that has blinded you since you made that choice at the youthful age of 15.
iquinn, I thank for those words of encouragement. You're a young man of knowledge and on the road to being a wise man. As for the comments of Pat Robertson, I thing He mis spoke. I'm NOT by NO means condoning his words. They were and are Hurtful and Destructive. What I have issue is, There were and are a number of individuals speaking about Haiti that were just as Hurtful and Destructive if not more than Rev. Robertson's yet the mainstream Media failed to persue nor report. Case in point Danny Glubber. This individual is a Good one to speak about anything. He's a "Washed" up actor and a BAD one at that who hasn't had his name in lights since "Lethal Weapon 15".
If your interested, The Book of Revelations talks Extensively about the last days and the signs pointing man to them (last days). I beleive we are on the door step. God's Spirit is beginning to move across this lost world calling His People to Him. Offering His Salvation through His Son, Jesus Christ, to all who hear. Brother, are you Saved today? Do know where you will spend Eternity? I pray you are.
- 01-18-2010, 07:03 AM #28
- 01-18-2010, 09:53 AM #29
- 01-18-2010, 12:32 PM #30
Yes, that's what I wanted, thank you. And so I can say without fear of being misunderstood that this is the reason I cannot call myself a Christian. For while I love and respect the life and works of Jesus of Nazareth, and believe their is a single Godhead encompassing all the microbes, animals, humans, and lesser 'gods', I cannot in good consience say Jesus was the only child of god or the only messenger with redemptive power. But outside of that, you and I have no argument.
- 01-18-2010, 07:33 PM #31
- 01-18-2010, 09:54 PM #32
- 01-19-2010, 03:34 PM #33
Sorry for the delay in response and even now I don't have the time (or probably the wit) to do the subject justice. The cosmology I ascribe to does not envision the cosmos as an artifact made by God, and so then as something by definition other than God, but rather as a multifaceted role that God is performing, a gesture, more of an event than a thing. And so there may well be, at some level of this infinite reality, beings or Demi-urges intermediate between ourselves and the one Godhead - I wouldn't myself use the names Zeus or Vishnu, etc. - but then I suspect we can all settle on angels as intermediate beings; in any case this was all I meant by lesser gods (without the capital G you see).
Among others who have selflessly sought to provide a vision of truth and redemption for humanity I would cite the Buddha and Lao Tzu. You will notice in my cosmology that we are each of us a portion of the dreaming Godhead, and so a unique divinity for Jesus is not something I can accept.
Evening Lady Kaede, So you agree with Brickman that there is only ONE God, you aslo agree the Jesus Christ is God's Son. You Also agree that God Created the Heaven's and the Earth. Yet you state there are Lesser "god's" and further state there are other messengers that do what? Proclaim what? That man can SAVE himself? Man has been trying that for Thousands of years, yet Man STILL destroys everything he touches. Man can not heal the sick with the touch of his hand, man can not set free the demanaic, man can not raise the Dead, Man can not Save himself from himself. You mention Buddha and Lao Tzu. Both DIED. Their bones STILL in the dirt. Their bodies decayed. Yes "MAYBE" were teacher's in their own right. BUT THEY WERE NO REDEEMERS as you mention. They were mere "men", holding NO special seat, no special place in history, no special RELATIONSHIP with The One True GOD as Jesus Christ does. Christ was and is The Only SON of GOD. ONLY Through Faith in Him can we share in that Redemption. Lady Kaede, you impress me as an educated individual. Have you ever Studied the Bible? Searched it with deep passion as one searches for truth? If not Please do so. God's word is TRUE. "SEEK Me and you WILL find Me".
- 01-20-2010, 04:45 AM #35
I will consider your request more seriously. But I do just want to point out that I do not believe God 'created' the heavens and the Earth, but that the heavens and the Earth are God pretending he doesn't know he's God. There is a significant difference, which leads to a whole host of different logical conclusions. Thanks for your time and your concern.
- 01-20-2010, 09:53 AM #36
The reason I asked for who these lesser gods were, is so that I could point out the fact that as you mentioned Buddha and Lao Tza as well as others are still buried in the grave. Yet Jesus who we have historical records of his being here on earth and dying and resurrecting says "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6
If you truly and earnestly are searching for truth, I urge you to search the Bible. Ask God to reveal himself to you thru his word. You have little to loose and much much to gain.
I thank all of you for a great civilized discussion and would point out that no one is trying to push Christianity on anyone. But if one person sees a burning building and the occupants are not aware of the danger, that person feels compelled to yell "fire" and help the occupants to get out before it's to late.
Lady kaede, is there a way U can explain your last post MORE SIMPLIFIED. The Creation of the heaven's and the earth by god are just his way of him " pretending" he is god? Please Lady Kaede, I BEG You, If U truely are as open minded as you say you are. Investigate The Book of Mark. I believe there you will find what you DESIRE.
Hermdog, I admire your sincerity and concern for the "lost". Brother, we as "Believers", can only Proclaim the message of "Salvation" to the nonbelievr. Once offered They have an Obligation to " themselves" accept or deny. We theredfore STAND in the Gap for them and "PRAY WITHOUT CEASING", expecting Great things. Including their Salvation. Christ SHED HIS BLOOD FOR THEM as well as us. Oh, that sweet, sweet "Freedom" once we come to realize what He done for me. (mankind) "My peace I give you, the pease that surpasses all understanding. Bless you my Brother. I ask yo again... Pray without ceasing for we are TRUELY standing in the end times... God's Spirit is Moving across this earth, searching, calling, not only His Children, but extending that invitation to all that will listen and hear.
- 01-20-2010, 12:51 PM #39
- 01-25-2010, 12:06 PM #41
I truly do not believe I have anything useful to post in this thread anymore - and I appreciate your not driving me out as an idolator or a reprobate. I admit that I have studied the Bible (and for good or ill I will admit that I am encouraging my daughter to download The New Testamennt as read by Johnny Cash (trust me, a great audiobook version of the Gospel) - but, as someone who has travelled the world over decades, and studied comparative religion, and failed more than once in living up to my own stated beliefs, I feel I owe you just one more post - to say that however much my view of the world (shockingly shared by more people than there are in the Judeo-Christian tradition) may differ from yours, I appreciate your efforts here to spread your own good news.
Lady Kaede, I sincerely Appreciate your Honesty. I am Glad that you are encourageing your daughter to study Gods' word and I hope that you would sit with her as she does. I must admit, I am Greatly saddened that you feel that way about the Gospel. I would NEVER drive anyone away from the Good News of Jesus Christ and that Precious BLOOD He SHED for mankind's Salvation, with what you've shared and MOST would not go as far as you did, I would NOT judge you as an Idolator nor a reprobate rather a LOST Soul searching for the TRUTH. As for my efforts to spread "my good news". The "GOOD News of the Gospel of Jesus Christ" is belonging to No one personally. "ALL have sined and FALL short of the Glory of God". God's Grace of Salvation and Redemption was given FREELY. It's each individual's Free will to accept that most Precious Gift. I will continue to lift you in prayer, BELIEVING ON THE PROMISE..."Pary without ceasing... and EXPECT GREAT THINGS...
- 02-02-2010, 12:10 AM #43
Wow! What a beautiful thread! Thanks for sharing, everybody! I feel like I should contribute something here, but I'm afraid I might sound trite or ramble on a bit. Only that has never stopped me before, so why now? I was raised Christian, with mostly Christian friends and family, so I have got nothing against Jesus. I love Jesus, in fact. I also love other people, living and dead, with about as much veracity and fervor. I also love a huge variety of inanimate objects, including music and pie and clean linen. What I don't particularly care for are people who are moved by ideology (or, more likely, use ideology as a cloak) to be just plain mean and hateful. I haven't seen any of that in this thread, I'm just saying: I've been to a church (not gonna name names here, but it was most definitely a place of worship) where it was preached from the pulpit that tolerance of others different from you is ungodly. Ungodly! To tolerate! I don't know which God that fellow was thinking of when he got up there and said that, but I sure think he got God's message twisted up and turned about! I believe strongly in tolerance for others, and I think that this ever more global community demands and expects tolerance, and respect for differences. All that said I think you folks are doing a fine job of tolerating each other (& me I hope )!
I don't believe that any one religion has the whole truth nailed down, I believe that all religions can be looked at from a distance (okay, sure, a reeeally far distance) and seen as many paths leading to the same place. I also believe that to truly understand your own life you have to walk towards that place and by walking, and traveling the path you have chosen (or that God chose for you) you can really become immersed in all of the amazing stories of the ones who have blazed the trail, and many others who have walked it before you, to the point that you see that the path you are on is a good, true path and you want to see others following to the same glorious destination. All I am saying is don't try to take others off of their path to follow yours. Just lead the way and follow the ones you have chosen to follow, others will in their own time make the decision as to which path is right for them, and it may be a different path. As long as you meet in Heaven, that's what counts, is all I'm saying.
Hello Microcosmos, I'm Glad you visited. It IS a Great blessing that believers and non-believers can join in fellowship to discuss, share and accept the Goodness and Grace of God through His Son Jesus Christ and the Blood He (Jesus) shed on the Cross for the Salvation of man. That, my friend is the message and the focus of this thread. The Amazing Grace of God. The silent prodding of His voice to the believer who has fallen away. "ALL have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God". (Romans:3;23) "And this I have against you, you have left your first love. Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place -- unless you repent". (Revelation:2;4...5) The gentle whisper in the ear of the non-believer, "I am the way, the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me". (John:14;6) "Come to Me ALL who are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOUL. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light". (Mathew:11;28...30)
Not that I am better than you or Blink has all the answers or "THAT" belief is totally rediculous or that message is not for this Social Forum.
The message of Salvation is for the world. All men are called to Christ at the Cross. To Gaze upon His face, to watch as His side was pierced and His Blood Shed for me and you. It is then up to each of us either to accept His Atonement for our shortcomings (sin) or Reject His Grace of Salvation and forgiveness to live a life wondering, searching, empty, void. For me, I ONCE WAS LOST but NOW AM FOUND WAS BLIND BUT NOW I SEE. Jesus, Literally, plucked me from the Grips of DEATH. He offered me Salvation. He offered me forgiveness. He offered me Life. And I,a lowly sinner, HUMBLY accepted His Gift. Yes, I sin, and am quite capible of rejecting His Life. But by FAITH through Grace I walk with HIm Daily. I Daily return to that Cross of LOVE to confess my shortcomings, to repent and turn from my sin and by CHOICE walk with Him through GRACE.
Microcosmos, you mentioned above you grew up in a "Christian" background. I can only conclude then that you've heard the message of "Salvation through the Precious Blood of Jesus". You also mention "Tolerance". I won't quote the entire Chapter, but Paul speaks of "tolerating and Judging in Romans 2. I encourage you to read it. God showed His "Tolerance" toward me. By all rights, I should be Judged and hanging on that tree. That SAME mercy I received, I can only show toward others. NOT that I accept and agree with their lifestyle, If they walk outside God's Law and Spirit, I am to Flee from it, least I be tempted.
I believe God is Pouring out His Spirit on this world today. He is calling His Church to become that Shining light in a LOST, HURTING World. He is calling His Chosen to share the message of Salvation through His Son, Jesus. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear". (Mathew: 11; 15)
- 02-02-2010, 04:32 PM #45
Anything other than through Christ is mere folly. Man believing he can bring Eternal Life to himself. It's been proven time and time again that man cannot bring true happiness and peace to himself. Look at how many "Rich" men have died seeking it. Either through seeking more riches, more things, drugs, women, men, beasts every abomination imagineable. Yet without Christ and the knowledge that one's "sin" or one's lack of relationship with God, man remains void.
It's through Christ Jesus and Christ Jesus alone can one attain a true and everlasting relationship with the Creator. The God of the Universe. The Alpha and Omega.
I don't believe anyone has stated that we should give up on those that need a little guidance. We all need guidance. I know I do Daily. By far I am in NO way perfect. Left to my own devices, I would have NO Difficulty being NUMBER 1 ***************. I know what I'm capable of. But it's through Jesus and His Cleansing Blood I am made whole. I am a "NEW" Creature in Him. The Old Dennis is passed away...The "NEW" Dennis now lives through My Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. He has given me His Spirit to Guide and gently watch over my footpath. As long as I remain in Him can I be made whole.
That same gift, given freely to me, is also given to those who seek it through Jesus. Come to the foot of that Cross, Look into His eyes and Confess one's sin's, be Cleansed by that Cleansing Blood, Repent and sin no more. I guarantee, if one goes to the Cross and accepts Jesus into their life they to will be MADE WHOLE and live in the knowledge that Eternal Life is theirs through Christ Jesus.
- 02-02-2010, 11:50 PM #47
To go back to the path metaphor, our paths are very close, and they crossed these past few days. We are going in the same direction, and I don't want to see you stumble as it seems you have made great strides and jumped a few hurdles here and there (that may be putting it mildly, I don't know). I like that you have found your path, and that you have a clear direction to follow.
But I did not make myself clear. When I said there are many paths, I was referring to the great religions of the world. When I said there is one destination, I was referring to God and Heaven and however you interpret these two very loaded words. I didn't mean that any one woman or man can make it to that destination alone, through the brambles and swamps and pits. I meant that we all tend to follow those that went before us, some centuries and even millenia before us, those who blazed clear trails for others to follow.
If I could draw you a picture, I would. It would show all true paths radiating out from a central destination. We all start our lives with a sense that there is something we should be moving towards, but we all start in different places. If there were signs pointing to the destination on each path, they would all be pointing in a different angle, but it wouldn't make sense to start arguing over whose sign on the great paths of truth is pointing in the right direction, because they all are.
Your path and my path are different, but we are both attempting to follow a path. Yours is more of a superhighway at this point, mine is more like a country road with a few bumps and dead ends here and there. But we are not lost alone in a forest with no way to see the sun or stars.
Again, I'm not trying to shake your faith, I'm just trying to share mine. My faith may not be as laser focused as yours, but it is no less valid. When that preacher I was talking about got up and preached intolerance, he was preaching specifically religious intolerance. That's counterintuitive to a strong faith, to me. Why should the validity of anyone's faith depend on the invalidity of another's?
Please, don't let me stop you from preaching what the Gospels have taught you. Preach on! Just don't expect me to ignore what others, with different vantage points and experiences, have to say.
Last edited by Microcosmos; 02-02-2010 at 11:57 PM.
Microcosmos, Yes, our paths have crossed in the last few days. Personally, I'm not one to believe that "Things" just happen or they "fall" to fate. I believe each man/woman is destined to stand before God the Father and asked one simple question. "My child, what have you done with the things I have given you"? (Paraphrased) The answer given of that question will determine one's Eternity. Heaven or Damnation.
God, is an "All Loving God". If it not be so He would never have provided a way through His Son Jesus Christ for mankind to be Redeemed. We (mankind) would still be under the curse of Adam when he fell from God's Grace in the Garden. At that point man lost his salvation and relationship with God. Sin was introduced to mankind. The Law was introduced to mankind. Up until that point God and man walked hand and hand in fellowship.
It was out of Love that God, sent His Son. It was and is out of His love that He gently calls to man/woman today. But again, its left to the indivieual to listen, to hear, to react when that call is heard. (Free Will)
Microcosmos, you need not fear for me. As you say." you have found your path".
No, I have found Jesus Christ, there is No other. "I am the way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father but through me".
"Religions" are nothing more than man made institutions founded to search for "whatever". Every "Religious" leader or founder has passed or will pass from this world through "Death". There graves are still "FULL". Not one has "crossed over" as some put it, to be seated at the Right hand of God.
There is one exception though, His name is Jesus. He was crusified, Died and was buried. On the third day He ROSE from the DEAD in ALL GOD'S Glory to Reign forever and ever. To become and is the Mediator between God and man for the Redemption of sin. Jesus was the "FINAL" Blood offering for sin. It is through Him we can stand before the Father and when asked, "What have you done with the things I have given you", and BOLDLY Proclaim that HIS SON has "REDEEMED" my soul. His SON has grafted me into the Kingdom. His Son has made me whole. It is Through His Son I can face tomorrow. NOT by what I have done, or Who I am. I am nothing. As I stated, I am a wreched, sinful individual who is capable of every imaginable abomination know.
Jesus, touched me. Cleansed my soul, Cleansed my mind, Cleansed my body. Made me whole. Had mercy upon me and gave me "ABUNDANT LIFE". That, my friend is available to "ALL" mankind.
Microcosmos, Return to your first love. Return to that first passing when you met Jesus. My friend, the answers you seek are there. "The pathway to hell is wide and inviting, The pathway to Heaven and Eternal Life is Short and narrow". (paraphrased)
As to your metaphor of "Country road vs Superhighway"? My friend, I am on no superhighway. My walk with my Savior is quite simple. One day at a time. One moment at a time.
I shall and will continue to lift you in prayer. God Bless
You know, I was watching the History Channel the other day and they were talking about the "Wonders of the World". The different accomplishments and achievements of man and I got to thinking... What is the Greatest thing ever built by the hand of man?
- 02-19-2010, 03:44 PM #50
The greatest thing ever built by the hand of Man . . . a difficult question. If I take it literally, I would have to come up with something like the Isle of Manhattan or the Internet. But if I think about humanity's greatest creations, they are more works of the mind than the hand: art, mostly: Beethoven and others, but also ideas about the world: the methods of Francis Bacon or the Buddha. Call me a brainwashed patriot, but if it's not a work of art, I say it's the US Constitution.