Team Jailbreak vs Team Pure

[farbod21]

What you ask for is not possible for Apple. Not because they are steadfast against jailbreak (I believe that many Apple employees are jailbroken and use it as a testing platform), but because they are contractually and strategically obligated to keep jailbreaking and unlocking at bay. Unlocking takes money out of the pocket of the cell providers' pockets, not Apple's, but Apple is obligated to combat them for the same reason they limit features like Facetime to Wifi.

Similarly, while we may wish piracy didn't exist, it thrives on JBen devices. Apple has no choice but to maintain their resistance to JBing. Ask any Jailbreak dev about piracy and they will be the first to tell you it is the bane of their existence, but there is nothing you can do about it.

These are the reasons why Apple will never embrace JB. Not because they choose not to but because they are obligated to by the nature of their business model.

 

[uhanrodric]

Coming from the webOS community, I find the jailbreak community interesting, and a little confusing.
Preware (our equivalent to Cydia) wasn't so difficult to install, and had more features, because the devs had more time to work on the app, and not how to get it on devices, since palm embraced it so much (there's an app in the official app catalogue with links and instructions for n00bs to install preware and homebrew with). Preware, and homebrew devs even did a presentation or two with palm during keynotes.

Anyway, it's done a lot of good because many of the good "hacks" (known as a "patch" to webs users) were actually implemented by palm in various official os updates throughout the time it's been around, and a number of the updates coming in webOS 2.0 are derived from patches developed by the home brew team.
The efforts of homebrew devs working on webOS are widely known in the community as the reason so many of us remain on webOS.

What is the point of this story? It's a very clear example of the power of homebrew to, when embraced by the company in question, benefit the end users as well as the manufacturer. I'm aware apple's strategy in the market clashes with the idea of embracing homebrew like this but they could still benefit from it by using some of the ideas implemented by homebrew devs. For example, pro switcher, I've never tested it myself, cause I just got my iPad and 4.2.1 doesn't work with it, but if apple used these things to strengthen the official os, they would have a LOT less jail breaking on their hands, and the os would gain momentum and strength even more so, for taking advantage of the extra free dev power.

I'm sorry end of rant now, I got totally carried away with that one

I agree with you 100%. I believe that is what keeps the ANDROID OS going. 3rd party developers. Google is just the ringleader that makes sure no one goes overboard.

 

[colemaneuclid]

I guess i shouldn't have lumped all of Cydia and Jailbreaking into one thought.
I enjoy the tweaks from Cydia and although BiteSms is an app, its basically tweaking the native sms app.

What I'm saying really is Apple should look at the things jailbreakers are doing with those tweaks and take note. I mean, really, how long did it take to get mms messages on iPhone. Send the phone out bare bones stock but have options like Lockscreen, emoticons, 5 icon springboard/dock, better file management app, etc available without jailbreaking. It's not the end of the world to want a custom sms tone haha!

 

[farbod21]

I guess i shouldn't have lumped all of Cydia and Jailbreaking into one thought.
I enjoy the tweaks from Cydia and although BiteSms is an app, its basically tweaking the native sms app.

What I'm saying really is Apple should look at the things jailbreakers are doing with those tweaks and take note. I mean, really, how long did it take to get mms messages on iPhone. Send the phone out bare bones stock but have options like Lockscreen, emoticons, 5 icon springboard/dock, better file management app, etc available without jailbreaking. It's not the end of the world to want a custom sms tone haha!

Oh trust me, they do. I wouldnt be surprised to find out that some JB devs are actually Apple employees....

 

[Ipheuria]

I like the analogy of the jailbreak being like aftermarket parts for cars. The car manufacturers for a long time would ignore the aftermarket crowd because they wanted to provide a simple vehicle to get from point A to point B. However once they saw the numbers going to aftermarket parts they wanted to have that revenue so they slowly started to incorporate the same stylin ideas in the cars from the factory. They also started to adopt their own brand of aftermarket parts sold at the dealerships. I'm surprised with all it's money Apple just doesn't have an undercover third party buy Cydia and then close it's doors. Why? well at the end of the day the phones jailbroken or not were bought meaning money in Apple's pockets. The jailbreak means more people on the platform that wouldn't be, think unlockers. So on the face of it like farbod said Apple is obligated to prevent the unlock and jailbreak. They still win in the end by having more phones sold, more users on the platform and happy users.

PS
Where are the team pure players? Is Chad running that team solo? I wanted to hear their arguments for why it is better?

 

[BLiNK]

if there were to be one thing i "disliked" about jailbreaking it would be the fact that as soon as something goes wrong (battery performance/keyboard lag/app lag/etc..) i'm quick to blame the jailbreak, even though it may have nothing to do with it at all..

then i find myself restoring, re-jailbreaking & adding all my apps/tweaks back on... maybe since i am a rookie (1 year) this is the only way i can have peace of mind

still... i would never go with TeamPure

 

[porksoda]

if there were to be one thing i "disliked" about jailbreaking it would be the fact that as soon as something goes wrong (battery performance/keyboard lag/app lag/etc..) i'm quick to blame the jailbreak, even though it may have nothing to do with it at all..

then i find myself restoring, re-jailbreaking & adding all my apps/tweaks back on... maybe since i am a rookie (1 year) this is the only way i can have peace of mind

still... i would never go with TeamPure

after jailbreak i had weird issues like mail app not working and navation within safari not working... i blamed it on addons for those apps.

But after a month or so with jailbreak i am finding safari using plethora of memory and other apps are left out without any memory and don't run properly.

So my point is... jailbreaking doesnt change basic operation but having some apps that eat mem will cause overall instability.

SBSettings is fantastic to kill safari or any other app eating mem.

 

[Allyson Kazmucha]

It boils down to JBing being "evil." Most people on Team Pure have either never JBen their device, or have only briefly done so. You will never hear about someone who has Jailbroken their device for an extensive period, has used a wide variety of apps and themes, and then argues that its better to stay Pure. Never.

Exactly.

I couldn't have said this better. Most people that are Team Pure have never jailbroken or did it for such a limited amount of time, they don't really know what they're doing, or even know what jailbreaking is or does.

They assume it alters your filesystem in a way that makes it buggy or laggy, and that's far from the case. There's been a few software issues w/ my iPhone that most people would have just taken the phone back to Apple, since I have access to my file system and a few jailbreak tools, I poke around and fix them myself half the time.

As a side note - we are probably going to get nothing but Team jailbreak people in here, I'd say this thread should probably be moved to the general forum so Team Pure members see it and can offer their arguments. I don't think many of them lurk around the jb forums very often

 

[MYNAMESALEX]

What you ask for is not possible for Apple. Not because they are steadfast against jailbreak (I believe that many Apple employees are jailbroken and use it as a testing platform), but because they are contractually and strategically obligated to keep jailbreaking and unlocking at bay. Unlocking takes money out of the pocket of the cell providers' pockets, not Apple's, but Apple is obligated to combat them for the same reason they limit features like Facetime to Wifi.

Similarly, while we may wish piracy didn't exist, it thrives on JBen devices. Apple has no choice but to maintain their resistance to JBing. Ask any Jailbreak dev about piracy and they will be the first to tell you it is the bane of their existence, but there is nothing you can do about it.

These are the reasons why Apple will never embrace JB. Not because they choose not to but because they are obligated to by the nature of their business model.

Well, none of those problems exist in preware on webos. Because they are closely tied with the dev relations team at palm, they are aware of palm's rules and requirements by other carriers, and rules regarding pirated apps, and there are no patches or anything that violate any of the company's contracts or terms and conditions. Homebrew follows all the rules, palm makes their job easy in return. There is no such method on webos I know of that allows pirating apps, and certainly wouldn't be as effective as the method iOS users use.

You can bet your best pair of pants Rob Whitby follows and reinforces all the rules. When operation "frankenpre" went downhill and became legally iffy, the whole thing got pulled immediately.

Of course I still find it hard to believe myself, apple would easily be able to implement these policies legally, or even care to try

-- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums Beta

 

[farbod21]

Well, none of those problems exist in preware on webos. Because they are closely tied with the dev relations team at palm, they are aware of palm's rules and requirements by other carriers, and rules regarding pirated apps, and there are no patches or anything that violate any of the company's contracts or terms and conditions. Homebrew follows all the rules, palm makes their job easy in return. There is no such method on webos I know of that allows pirating apps, and certainly wouldn't be as effective as the method iOS users use.

You can bet your best pair of pants Rob Whitby follows and reinforces all the rules. When operation "frankenpre" went downhill and became legally iffy, the whole thing got pulled immediately.

Of course I still find it hard to believe myself, apple would easily be able to implement these policies legally, or even care to try

-- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums Beta

I strongly disagree. You cannot compare the homebrew for the Palm Pre with what is being done for iOS. Would be like saying since I can control the fire in my fireplace, a forest fire should be just as easy.

The iPhone has problems the Pre does not. Since there are so many iPhone owners, specifically in the US, data usage control is a severe problem. AT&T contractually obligates Apple to limit certain features like video streaming and Facetime. Even if Apple "embraced" homebrew, no one would follow such rules. Even if Apple embraced this type of software, they need to give some type of support for it as well. Have fun with that at the app store.

Palm's customer base is much much lower than Apple's which affords them choices that are not possible for Apple. Any rules Apple would impose would quickly be ignored anyway...

And FYI, pirated apps on WebOS are very easy to install...

 

[xxDruMMer BoYxx]

Team Pure here. Lol. Well, not that I'm not willing to change, but let me give u my perspective and go easy on me, I'm interested in jailbreaking. First time I heard about a jailbroken iPhone was that my friends friends iPhone was jailbroken and her phones battery dies like in 3 hours. My gf's sisters phone all of a sudden died on her and it wouldn't turn on. And overall I never hear anybody tell me, "oh hey, it's cool to jailbreak ur phone because blah blah blah"... At least not from anywhere other than us techy forum peeps and if I'm hearing all that stuff, imagine those who don't even come to the forums?
I'm coming from a blackberry and I used to tweak the crap out of that thin with the OS's and stuff. I used to be all over crackberry.com. But the one thing I hated was having to find a problem with the phone because I did something to it and u know now, I just don't have room for problems and having to go back to tweak it again or do a restore and all the stuff.

I read this whole thread and you guys have very good points. Honestly, I don't know what more explaining I want from u guys or what more convincing points I need to convert lol But then again, I'm finding no real reason to jailbreak my phone other than to have free apps (from what I've been told, that's possible). I don't want my iPhone 4's look to change or anything. I don't SMS( believe it or not) and so I dont find a real use to do it. I guess my mindset is like that saying "why fix it if It isn't broken." plus the whole limesnow or jailbreaking names is confusing to me. Who is doing what? Why are they called that and who's better.
I'm not afraid to ask these questions as I believe there are some people that are team pure that are afraid to ask so I'm just shootin it out there.

 

[nroldan83]

Team Pure!

 

[Ipheuria]

Team Pure here. Lol. Well, not that I'm not willing to change, but let me give u my perspective and go easy on me, I'm interested in jailbreaking. First time I heard about a jailbroken iPhone was that my friends friends iPhone was jailbroken and her phones battery dies like in 3 hours. My gf's sisters phone all of a sudden died on her and it wouldn't turn on. And overall I never hear anybody tell me, "oh hey, it's cool to jailbreak ur phone because blah blah blah"... At least not from anywhere other than us techy forum peeps and if I'm hearing all that stuff, imagine those who don't even come to the forums?
I'm coming from a blackberry and I used to tweak the crap out of that thin with the OS's and stuff. I used to be all over crackberry.com. But the one thing I hated was having to find a problem with the phone because I did something to it and u know now, I just don't have room for problems and having to go back to tweak it again or do a restore and all the stuff.

I read this whole thread and you guys have very good points. Honestly, I don't know what more explaining I want from u guys or what more convincing points I need to convert lol But then again, I'm finding no real reason to jailbreak my phone other than to have free apps (from what I've been told, that's possible). I don't want my iPhone 4's look to change or anything. I don't SMS( believe it or not) and so I dont find a real use to do it. I guess my mindset is like that saying "why fix it if It isn't broken." plus the whole limesnow or jailbreaking names is confusing to me. Who is doing what? Why are they called that and who's better.
I'm not afraid to ask these questions as I believe there are some people that are team pure that are afraid to ask so I'm just shootin it out there.

I fully understand where you're coming from but I think there are quite a few things wrong with the things you've said. You don't want to redo all your tweaks if you screw up the phone with a tweak. Well the problem is having an OEM phone wont mean that doesn't happen. If you read the forum you'll find people who have a bajillion apps with data, 6 or more emails setup, 10 different WIFI spots they've put in the password for so what happens when your OEM phone starts crashing? What is the first thing people recommend? Setup your phone as a new phone which means you would have to redo all of your settings ie. Personalization. Then you talk about battery dying after jailbreak, that can happen on an OEM phone which I've already mentioned people are just quick to blame the jailbreak because they find that as the easiest explanation. I've heard a ton of people asking about jailbreak outside the forums because it has become so popular it's on every platform even the new WP7. The final thing is everyone thinks jailbreak means you have to customize, it's your phone and you only have to do what you want. I could easily JB my iPhone 4 just to change my SMS tones to custom. This would be the only thing I would do if I wanted and why because Apple wont provide the functionality.

 

[xxDruMMer BoYxx]

So speaking in a software sense, what does the jailbreak do to the phone. I'm not talking about, "oh it let's u customize it," I'm talking about internally. Why does it cause it to "jailbreak?" (I want facts, not guesses, if you don't know, you don't guess). Lol thanks.

 

[farbod21]

So speaking in a software sense, what does the jailbreak do to the phone. I'm not talking about, "oh it let's u customize it," I'm talking about internally. Why does it cause it to "jailbreak?" (I want facts, not guesses, if you don't know, you don't guess). Lol thanks.

Simply, a jailbreak is the process by which full execute and write access is obtained on all the partitions of the iPhone. It is done by patching /etc/fstab to mount the System partition as read-write.

Recent jailbreaks also include modifying the afc2 (used by iTunes to access the filesystem) so it allows access to the full file system and patching the kernel to get around code signing and other restrictions.

Its all explained in my FAQ...

 

[ChrisGonzales90]

Not sure why you want access to the file system. If you know what your doing then great, but if you don't, thats just one way to mess up your product.

 

[farbod21]

Not sure why you want access to the file system. If you know what your doing then great, but if you don't, thats just one way to mess up your product.

Its a simple file system not a human nervous system. Its not that hard to navigate and even if you mess up all you have to do is restore to put it back to normal...

Not sure why you are so adamant against Jailbreaking. Millions of people are happy with it...

 

[ChrisGonzales90]

Its a simple file system not a human nervous system. Its not that hard to navigate and even if you mess up all you have to do is restore to put it back to normal...

Not sure why you are so adamant against Jailbreaking. Millions of people are happy with it...

I just had a really bad experience with jailbreak. I used the jailbreakme.com deal. It screwed up my iPad real bad.

Plus with iOs 4.2 theres no real need to jailbreak.

and I dobut millions are happy. A good chunk use the device like normal people would.

 

[xxDruMMer BoYxx]

I appreciate ur responses farbod21. Your really helping me out. I will go ahead and jailbreak my phone later on today. I'll be looking at your FAQ page. I'm on 4.2, any good jailbreaking tools on that?

 

[farbod21]

I appreciate ur responses farbod21. Your really helping me out. I will go ahead and jailbreak my phone later on today. I'll be looking at your FAQ page. I'm on 4.2, any good jailbreaking tools on that?

You know, if its your first jailbreak, I would suggest waiting a few days. Your first jailbreak shouldn't be tethered

If you want to try it anyway, I would suggest redsn0w...