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  1. Thread AuthorThread Author   #1  
    pilotnh's Avatar
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    Default Enough of this cracked app talk

    There seems to be a lot more talk of cracked apps and programs that install them lately. I have a few things to say.

    First of all, that's prohibited here and I'm in favor of banning all of you who do this immediately and permanently. When I tell people that my iPhone is jailbroken they immediately assume that I'm doing something illegal because of what you people are doing. I jailbroke my phone for functionality and customization- period.

    Second. Creating a "trial version" does not justify stealing apps even temporarily. You are on a platform where a typical app is $0.99 or $1.99. How cheap do you have to be to not consider this getting the final product for a trial price? If you buy one lousy game for Wii or PS3, you're looking at $30/$40/$50 bucks or more. Many apps offer "lite" versions for free. If you want trial versions or your money back go to Android. That's not the way the game is played here.

    Third. The latest ruling by the Library of Congress validates jailbreaking not cracking or stealing. You are stealing from the authors of the app. This is no different than if they walked up to you on the street and took your iPhone and put it in their pocket and walked away.

    I encourage all of the moderators here to continue to immediately ban permanently anyone who asks for advice or contributes to those types of threads.

    Grow up people. You're going to ruin the jailbreak community for the rest of us.
  2. #2  
    rdiddy_25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pilotnh View Post
    There seems to be a lot more talk of cracked apps and programs that install them lately. I have a few things to say.

    First of all, that's prohibited here and I'm in favor of banning all of you who do this immediately and permanently. When I tell people that my iPhone is jailbroken they immediately assume that I'm doing something illegal because of what you people are doing. I jailbroke my phone for functionality and customization- period.

    Second. Creating a "trial version" does not justify stealing apps even temporarily. You are on a platform where a typical app is $0.99 or $1.99. How cheap do you have to be to not consider this getting the final product for a trial price? If you buy one lousy game for Wii or PS3, you're looking at $30/$40/$50 bucks or more. Many apps offer "lite" versions for free. If you want trial versions or your money back go to Android. That's not the way the game is played here.

    Third. The latest ruling by the Library of Congress validates jailbreaking not cracking or stealing. You are stealing from the authors of the app. This is no different than if they walked up to you on the street and took your iPhone and put it in their pocket and walked away.

    I encourage all of the moderators here to continue to immediately ban permanently anyone who asks for advice or contributes to those types of threads.

    Grow up people. You're going to ruin the jailbreak community for the rest of us.
    Very well said. I totally agree with you, but no matter how many times u post or say it, the talk won't stop. Hell, there's even a sticky about it that gets disregarded daily. The quickest way to get this to stop is by letting them say whatever they got to say and IMMEDIATELY ban them. No more warnings or second chances. Without the money the devs make from the apps, we wouldn't have all the jb apps and tweaks we all love and need.
  3. #3  
    tommyb_23's Avatar
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    But its ok to talk about an app that allows you to steal from att? IE: MYWII , tethering without paying att for the service? Hows that any difference thats piracy thats stealing thats breaking the rules. So if your going to be all high and mighty then you need to pull your head from your @@@ first.
  4. #4  
    IGoSlo's Avatar
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    Totally Agree with you both. JMO, some of the mod's have been "Overly" Tolerant. A 7 year kid gets 7 day suspension or even expelled for "Drawing" a hand gun on a piece of paper. Here I've witnessed conversation about Theft of other's property and "nothing". JMO... NO TOLERANCE...
    Pray without Ceasing...And EXPECT GREAT ANSWERS... HAND/MGBU, IGoSlo (iMFREED)
  5. #5  
    tommyb_23's Avatar
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    Comparing this with a 7 year old a drawing of handgun? What are you on?
  6. Thread AuthorThread Author   #6  
    pilotnh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbyers2 View Post
    But its ok to talk about an app that allows you to steal from att? IE: MYWII , tethering without paying att for the service? Hows that any difference thats piracy thats stealing thats breaking the rules. So if your going to be all high and mighty then you need to pull your head from your @@@ first.
    I never said it's ok to steal from AT&T. I don't use MyWi. But in all fairness, I'd probably have to be a lawyer and read through an AT&T contract to figure out if that is stealing or making use of an unlimited data plan. If the contract doesn't specifically prohibit that activity, it could be considered fair use of a data plan. In any event, while it might be a violation of your terms of agreement with AT&T, I doubt it would be deemed illegal. This can be compared to AT&T capping people who are supposed to be on an unlimited plan by using fine print in the contract.
  7. #7  
    tommyb_23's Avatar
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    Still its something that att charges for and requires you to pay for to use that service, so if you use it then your stealing from att. Reminds of stealing cable. STEALING IS STEALING! I wasnt saying you were but Ive noticed tons of threads on hear promoting or talking about using mywi, even in moderator started threads, no one here seems to jump on them or chastise them for talking about mywi!
  8. Thread AuthorThread Author   #8  
    pilotnh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbyers2 View Post
    Still its something that att charges for and requires you to pay for to use that service, so if you use it then your stealing from att. Reminds of stealing cable. STEALING IS STEALING! I wasnt saying you were but Ive noticed tons of threads on hear promoting or talking about using mywi, even in moderator started threads, no one here seems to jump on them or chastise them for talking about mywi!
    I'm going to have to disagree with you. I've PAID FOR an unlimited data plan. That means I can transmit and receive any data I like across the AT&T network. If in my contract, they ban tethering, I am violating the contract but not doing anything illegal. That would be cause for a civil but not criminal action. They can also terminate me as a customer but that's it.

    Here's an analogy. I rent a house from you. In our lease you specifically ban me from having parties there. I decide to throw one hell of a party anyway. I didn't do anything illegal. I violated the terms of our lease but that's it. You can take me to court and sue me (and probably win) but I won't be going to jail or getting a criminal record.
  9. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbyers2 View Post
    Still its something that att charges for and requires you to pay for to use that service, so if you use it then your stealing from att. Reminds of stealing cable. STEALING IS STEALING! I wasnt saying you were but Ive noticed tons of threads on hear promoting or talking about using mywi, even in moderator started threads, no one here seems to jump on them or chastise them for talking about mywi!
    AT&T didn't start charging for that until recently. They realized that they should have been charging for it, since people were going to just do it anyway. It's really just a big messy area. (Using the pre-AT&T tethering option as an example), you're paying for Data Usage, as long as you stay under the alloted data, what you do with it, is your business.

    Previous posts are right, if it's not in the contract, tethering is fair game. You're not taking data service for free.
    iPhone 5 16GB, iPad 32GB Wi-fi, Mac Mini(2010)
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  10. #10  
    sschlesinger's Avatar
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    I agree with the cracked app situation it is a bad thing for developers people who jb for that reason are really in the wrong. I personally will admit I have downloaded a cracked app and used it one time then went and purchased the full app at 79.99 (yes I can post my reciept). I must say though if people are seeking free apps or discounted apps one of my favorite apps is bargain bin. I would suggest all this app to all the cheapos out there. Also if you can afford an iphone you can afford to pay for the app.
  11. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pilotnh View Post
    I'm going to have to disagree with you. I've PAID FOR an unlimited data plan. That means I can transmit and receive any data I like across the AT&T network. If in my contract, they ban tethering, I am violating the contract but not doing anything illegal. That would be cause for a civil but not criminal action. They can also terminate me as a customer but that's it.

    Here's an analogy. I rent a house from you. In our lease you specifically ban me from having parties there. I decide to throw one hell of a party anyway. I didn't do anything illegal. I violated the terms of our lease but that's it. You can take me to court and sue me (and probably win) but I won't be going to jail or getting a criminal record.
    you cannot disagree with him if you do not know the facts. You disagree, yet you immediately follow it up with "IF IN MY CONTRACT", meaning you did not read it. Read through the contract and find out exactly what AT&T can do, and if you are truly in breach of your contract.

    I run a business and a new law was put in place in my state that prevents smoking in the work place. My business is a motel, and the housekeepers "work" in the rooms to clean them, meaning that this law extends to the guests as well. Every time a guest rents a room, I tell them "no smoking". One day, a guest said "it will be nice when you don't have to say that anymore and people just know". I told him that, within the law itself, I "HAVE" to tell people "no smoking", in order to cover my **** legally. The law specifically states that I have to make a good faith attempt to get the people to know there is no smoking, otherwise if I get reported on by the next guest to say in the room, I could be fined $100 - $500.

    Not exactly the same thing, but it does show that reading the law or rules IS needed, otherwise you don't know what you are talking about and your "OPINION" is baseless. Many people in my state believe that there is a 50 feet rule, where you have to be 50 feet away from an open door or window of a business in order to smoke. This is untrue for my state, but true for other states. People do not understand the law, they just guess.

    And BTW, with your analogy, the landlord renting the house to you wouldn't take you to court or sue you, they would evict you. AT&T, quite possibly, would just ban you from their service. At that point, you would NOT have a data plan anymore, nor would you have a cell phone account either. A contract is NOT a blank check.
    Last edited by macharborguy; 08-10-2010 at 10:49 AM.
  12. #12  
    macharborguy's Avatar
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    oh, look at what I found in the AT&T Wireless Usage Agreement which is at the link on the bottom of the AT&T accounts page...

    "Furthermore, plans (unless specifically designated for tethering usage) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/smartphone to computer accessories, BLUETOOTH or any other wireless technology) to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for any purpose."

    and AT&T can do the following if the determine that you ARE tethering without buying their plan...

    "Accordingly, AT&T reserves the right to (i) deny, disconnect, modify and/or terminate Service, without notice, to anyone it believes is using the Service in any manner prohibited or whose usage adversely impacts its wireless network or service levels or hinders access to its wireless network, including without limitation, after a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage and (ii) otherwise protect its wireless network from harm, compromised capacity or degradation in performance, which may impact legitimate data flows. You may not send solicitations to AT&T's wireless subscribers without their consent."



    So yes, READING is fundamental. Using MyWi on an Unlimited plan is a breach of contract, and AT&T has the right, if they discover that you are tethering without the proper plans, to disconnect and deny you service. Its in the contract, and you agreed to it.
  13. Thread AuthorThread Author   #13  
    pilotnh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macharborguy View Post
    oh, look at what I found in the AT&T Wireless Usage Agreement which is at the link on the bottom of the AT&T accounts page...

    "Furthermore, plans (unless specifically designated for tethering usage) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/smartphone to computer accessories, BLUETOOTH or any other wireless technology) to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for any purpose."

    and AT&T can do the following if the determine that you ARE tethering without buying their plan...

    "Accordingly, AT&T reserves the right to (i) deny, disconnect, modify and/or terminate Service, without notice, to anyone it believes is using the Service in any manner prohibited or whose usage adversely impacts its wireless network or service levels or hinders access to its wireless network, including without limitation, after a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage and (ii) otherwise protect its wireless network from harm, compromised capacity or degradation in performance, which may impact legitimate data flows. You may not send solicitations to AT&T's wireless subscribers without their consent."



    So yes, READING is fundamental. Using MyWi on an Unlimited plan is a breach of contract, and AT&T has the right, if they discover that you are tethering without the proper plans, to disconnect and deny you service. Its in the contract, and you agreed to it.
    Thank you for your rant. I believe I already said that might be the case if it was in the agreement.

    However, you did prove my point. It goes against your contract with AT&T but it's not illegal.
  14. #14  
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    I'm probably one of a few left that has an "unlimited" Data plan $30.00. Using my iphone with PDANet (by the way , which I bought), is NOT theft of a Service offered by my Carrier. As for my sanario, it can't be told any clearer... 7 year old DRAWS a picture of a hand gun... BAM... Suspension or Expulsion... Sign into TiPb iPhone, DISCUSS your usage of Cracked Apps (STOLEN Apps or work of another)...nothing...
    Pray without Ceasing...And EXPECT GREAT ANSWERS... HAND/MGBU, IGoSlo (iMFREED)
  15. #15  
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    No not illegal but still stealing! How can you defend a negative stand point stealing is stealing , if someone charges for a product or service but you decide to steal it that's wrong whether its data or cd or app. So just because I have a service that i offer for sale and you use my service without payment that's not stealing? You sound childish and want to make up rules how you deem fit, well it doesnt work that way, and to IGOSLO your 7year drawing a gun analogy doesn't fit here and again I ask what are you on? Your comments haven't contributed to this thread at all its just your whining,
  16. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbyers2 View Post
    No not illegal but still stealing! How can you defend a negative stand point stealing is stealing , if someone charges for a product or service but you decide to steal it that's wrong whether its data or cd or app. So just because I have a service that i offer for sale and you use my service without payment that's not stealing? You sound childish and want to make up rules how you deem fit, well it doesnt work that way, and to IGOSLO your 7year drawing a gun analogy doesn't fit here and again I ask what are you on? Your comments haven't contributed to this thread at all its just your whining,
    Last i checked, AT&T doesn't offer tethering via wifi. The one in the wrong here btw is AT&T. AT&T sells capped data plans, so why the extra charge to plug in and tether? Apple & AT&T could offer wifi tethering but won't. If they did, i'd relent and pay and have one compelling reason not to jailbreak. The only other reasons would be AT&T restricting apps on 3G and apple having better SMS integration.

    In contrast, devs spends hundreds or thousands developing apps. To steal an app is just blatant stealing. Plus, at&t doesn't post here or host these forums. This is a community for users some of who are devs. You won't get far trying to say stealing from devs is somehow justifiable because a tethering app might be unethical as well. You're most of the reason why Apple tries to prevent jailbreaking.
    Last edited by cardfan; 08-11-2010 at 12:31 AM.
  17. #17  
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    The problem I have with all of this, is that it's never quite as black and white as the OP put it. I have a very big problem with not having a 24 hour trial period like Android. There are a lot of apps in the App Store that are also on Android so the excuse of "well Android's Market isn't near the App Store's quality" is bogus.

    Speaking of quality. There are developers out there, and not just the "big, corporate conglomerates", that mis-represent what their app does and no matter the price tag I have no right to be ripped off. Apple spends way too much time denying apps that do good things instead of denying developers that falsely advertise and that's coming from an Apple Fanboy.

    I crack apps. ALL THE TIME! Ban me if you don't like it. I download an app, try it for 10-20 minutes, sometimes a day if it's a productivity or alarm-based app. If I like it, I delete it and buy it. If I hate it, I delete it and move on. I've mentioned my waste of $100 on TomTom before. I was f***ing pissed when I downloaded it and it crashed and was horrible software. NO REFUNDS???? If I bought an actual TomTom at Best Buy I could have returned it. Ever since then, I have been an avid app cracker.

    My weekly App Store bill averages $100 so don't tell me I'm a pirate.
  18. #18  
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    someone is all high and mighty.
  19. #19  
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    Nah, I was just having a bad evening. My only point was that no one deserves paying for an app that supposedly has a feature they are looking for just to download it and discover the developer was not as truthful as he/she should have been. Not every app has a review and user comments don't always reflect the quality of the app. Like I mentioned. I was pissed about paying $99 for the POS that is TomTom. So I jailbroke my phone, cracked ALL the other GPS/Nav apps and found the one I liked. In my case it was Navigon. I promptly paid for Navigon and deleted everything else. I did not pirate anything.
  20. #20  
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    I am a BIG fan of supporting the developers of apps, however, being someone that got screwed on a few higher priced apps (not doing what they say they will, or not even work) I tend to test my high priced apps before buying them.

    Usually I test for a matter of minutes. I just want to make sure before I spend $10 on something that it works. If the Dev has a lite version then I use that, but not all of the apps have them.

    That being said, if you use said "cracked" apps then do the right thing and only use them to test functionality then pay for the full version.
  21. #21  
    LCW
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    it's real simply... software piracy is ILLEGAL

    tethering, whether against at&t policy is NOT ILLEGAL

    i buy my apps, and I don't used cracked ones.... but i tether freely and plentifully... unlimited data is unlimited data
  22. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by IGoSlo View Post
    I'm probably one of a few left that has an "unlimited" Data plan $30.00. Using my iphone with PDANet (by the way , which I bought), is NOT theft of a Service offered by my Carrier.
    Who is your carrier that allows your phone's unlimited data plan to be used tethered without theft of service??
  23. Thread AuthorThread Author   #23  
    pilotnh's Avatar
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    Let's try it on a level you guys might get it:

    You go to the store and buy a loaf of bread for $3 (unlimited data plan). You take it home and realize that on the wrapper (user agreement) it says that if you put ham and cheese on it (tethering) you owe the bread manufacturer (cell carrier) another $2. You decide to make the ham and cheese sandwich anyway (jailbreak and tether) and not pay the $2. Did you do something illegal?

    Folks, you already paid for the bread.

    One parting point- from dictionary.com:

    unlimited-[uhn-lim-i-tid]- adjective
    without any qualification or exception; unconditional

    I think that speaks for itself.
  24. #24  
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    Whatever makes you sleep better at night THIEF!
  25. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pilotnh View Post
    Let's try it on a level you guys might get it:

    You go to the store and buy a loaf of bread for $3 (unlimited data plan). You take it home and realize that on the wrapper (user agreement) it says that if you put ham and cheese on it (tethering) you owe the bread manufacturer (cell carrier) another $2. You decide to make the ham and cheese sandwich anyway (jailbreak and tether) and not pay the $2. Did you do something illegal?

    Folks, you already paid for the bread.

    One parting point- from dictionary.com:

    unlimited-[uhn-lim-i-tid]- adjective
    without any qualification or exception; unconditional

    I think that speaks for itself.
    Interesting comparison... I'm with you though. The definition of the word seems to have been lost to more conservative forum goers and AT&T up until you shared that lovely and correct definition with us. Good on ya mate!
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