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  1. #51  
    SLVR6's Avatar
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    Google maps of course!
  2. #52  
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    Quote Originally Posted by burnsaa View Post
    I wonder if tomtom will be selling their software in the app store.
    I enjoyed it on my treo 750. Would definetly look into getting it for the iPhone especially if you could load/buy certain maps in the app store so if you only wanted one state or a group of states it would cost less and not take up so much memory. Or you could buy them all and just load certain states through iTunes... Not sure that's possible but would be nice.
    Go TomTom. It is one of only two apps that I still use on my Treo. The other is the ebook reader. I want to buy ebooks in the Apple Store.
  3. #53  
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    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    Go TomTom. It is one of only two apps that I still use on my Treo. The other is the ebook reader. I want to buy ebooks in the Apple Store.
    TomTom you say? Looks like you are in luck. TomTom is bringing their software to the iPhone 3G: http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2008...ing-to-iphone/
  4. #54  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xintelinsanex View Post
    TomTom you say? Looks like you are in luck. TomTom is bringing their software to the iPhone 3G: http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2008...ing-to-iphone/
    That's good news but there are still lots of unanswered questions, especially:

    1) Have/will Apple let them into the Developer program?

    2) Will TomTom keep working when a phone call comes in or allow background music playback (not so fussed about the latter, the former is essential)?

    3) Will we be able to add POIs like we do with TomTom PNDs or TomTom software on other phones?

    I do hope the answers are yes.
  5. #55  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xintelinsanex View Post
    TomTom you say? Looks like you are in luck. TomTom is bringing their software to the iPhone 3G: http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2008...ing-to-iphone/
    Great news! Thanks for sharing.
  6. #56  
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    Default ATT wont allow it.

    I have a feeling all of these dreams for free GPS spoken turn by turn directions is going to be merely a dream. I have a Blackberry and AT&T only offers Telnav as the software which cna be used for turn by turn directions, and is an additional $10 a month for unlimited service. I think that apple needs to give a littel elbow jab to AT&T and say, you need to let these people use whatever turn by turn software you choose. Its going to be a bloody battle.
  7. #57  
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    Quote Originally Posted by patcom8 View Post
    I have a feeling all of these dreams for free GPS spoken turn by turn directions is going to be merely a dream. I have a Blackberry and AT&T only offers Telnav as the software which cna be used for turn by turn directions, and is an additional $10 a month for unlimited service. I think that apple needs to give a littel elbow jab to AT&T and say, you need to let these people use whatever turn by turn software you choose. Its going to be a bloody battle.
    Really than why can I use TomTom on my treo750 through at&t? All it is is a 3rd party app that uses the gps chip. And if the gps is open to the devs which it will be than how can at&t say/do anything about it. Right now it looks like tomtom has software for wm and palm but just not bb and here's to hoping that they are let into the app store.

    As far as getting a phone call is concerned I wonder how they will be able to work that because I would love to be able to do both at the same time but if not it could at least save your route in memory then bring it right back once you open it back up.
  8. #58  
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    Quote Originally Posted by burnsaa View Post
    Really than why can I use TomTom on my treo750 through at&t? All it is is a 3rd party app that uses the gps chip. And if the gps is open to the devs which it will be than how can at&t say/do anything about it. Right now it looks like tomtom has software for wm and palm but just not bb and here's to hoping that they are let into the app store.

    As far as getting a phone call is concerned I wonder how they will be able to work that because I would love to be able to do both at the same time but if not it could at least save your route in memory then bring it right back once you open it back up.
    I think that burnsaa is viewing with unwarranted concern. The only difference between running TomTom on the 3G and and running on the Treo is that the Treo must get its positioning data via Bluetooth (or cable) from an external GPS device (mine is a Holux, about the size of a pack of chewing gum, and most of that is battery.) The iPhone 3G has its own on-board GPS chip.

    There is little to compare TomTom 3G to TelNav on AT&T phones. The TelNav application runs in the network. It may use an on-board GPS chip if the phone has one but does not rely upon it. If there is no on-board chip, the TelNav application will get location data from the local cell. This solution is much less precise than with an on-board GPS.

    The TelNav solution is sold as a service, which runs on a server, while TomTom is sold as software and maps that will run on the iPhone 3G. Sparse users of navigation may prefer the pay-as-you-go service while habitual users may prefer the investment in software. The AT&T/TelNav solution will run, w/o modification or porting to, on the iPhone 3G. TomTom is quoted by Reuters as saying they already have their software running on the iPhone and that they intend to offer it as a product.

    One last distinction is that the TelNav solution does not require on-board storage for maps and points-of-interest. The TomTom One uses a total of 2gigs of storage for the software and all the navigation data for the US and Canada. I use less than that on my Treo but must manage the data. While TomTom periodically updates their maps, your maps may not be as current as the TelNav maps.

    In any case, AT&T cannot resist, or charge me for, my use of TomTom or any other on-board application. There will be no blood, only normal competition between solutions with different advantages.
    Last edited by whmurray; 06-10-2008 at 01:27 PM.
  9. #59  
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    I agree at&t has no say over what software we use that was my point I was responding to patcom8 comment about apple not letting him use anything other than telanav on his BB. And yes I do use a BT GPS reciever on the treo and also was able to fit the program and all US maps onto a 1 gig flash card.
    As far as tomtom not having as up to date maps that is true but they are discussing the option of giving free updates to maps for the life of your phone for other platforms so hopefully they do the same with the iPhone.
  10. #60  
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    Excellent question about the phone call. What if you are driving and you suddenly get a phone call? Do you answer the call and get lost or ignore the call and miss something important?
  11. #61  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xintelinsanex View Post
    Excellent question about the phone call. What if you are driving and you suddenly get a phone call? Do you answer the call and get lost or ignore the call and miss something important?
    My experience is that the phone automatically answers the call and I miss my turn.
  12. #62  
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    I'd like to buy a software (from Garmin?) that will reproduce the Nuvi interface, with maps downloaded on the fly, voice directions, POI from the internet, constantly updated traffic.

    Basically I want to avoid having to buy a PND.

    I am assuming that this will be cheaper than buying a Nuvi, as Garmin saves the cost of hardware and possibly maps, if they use Google Maps as the source of their maps.
  13. #63  
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    Just saw this on Electronista about GPS navigation software:

    Apple may be attempting to block competition when it comes to GPS navigation on the iPhone, developers have observed. In the most recent version of the iPhone SDK, Section 3.3.7 of the license agreement tells users that "applications may not be designed or marketed for real time route guidance; automatic or autonomous control of vehicles, aircraft, or other mechanical devices; dispatch or fleet management; or emergency or life-saving purposes.
    Also disturbing is the part about life-saving purposes.
  14. #64  
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    The issue there is they don't want to get sued when someone gets killed, not that they don't want competition. Note that the iphone OS is not a real-time OS, and thus is inherently unsafe for use in places where a real-time OS is required.

    question is, what is "real-time route guidance?" If they mean "real-time" in the vernacular, rather than technical, sense, then there may be something to the competition paranoia. The automatic or autonomous control.... etc. is obvious. The iphone is not designed with that sort of purpose in mind, and using it in that way would inevitibly lead to death and destruction.
  15. #65  
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    Well that would be totally crap of Apple. What are they thinking?

    Here's the link btw:

    http://www.electronista.com/articles....sdk..gps.nav/
  16. #66  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    The issue there is they don't want to get sued when someone gets killed, not that they don't want competition. Note that the iphone OS is not a real-time OS, and thus is inherently unsafe for use in places where a real-time OS is required.

    question is, what is "real-time route guidance?" If they mean "real-time" in the vernacular, rather than technical, sense, then there may be something to the competition paranoia. The automatic or autonomous control.... etc. is obvious. The iphone is not designed with that sort of purpose in mind, and using it in that way would inevitibly lead to death and destruction.
    What do you mean real time OS?
  17. #67  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    question is, what is "real-time route guidance?" If they mean "real-time" in the vernacular, rather than technical, sense, then there may be something to the competition paranoia.
    The statement seems to be about application purpose not the underlying technical aspects.
  18. #68  
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    Real-time OS's are a special kind of OS usually used in things like nav systems, industrial machines, automobile controllers, medical equipment, etc.

    They make sure that instructions and processes always operate on a fixed schedule, rather than allowing interrupts, garbage collection, recalcitrant threads and the like to change the amount of time it takes for things to happen.

    Wind River, QNX, VxWorks, etc. are examples.

    What you don't want in such situations is an OS that will pause every once in awhile to do things other than the foreground process, which is exactly what os x does.

    See, e.g.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_time_operating_system
  19. #69  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    The statement seems to be about application purpose not the underlying technical aspects.
    yes, but "real time," with regard to purpose, means something specific in the art. To customers, it means "turn by turn driving directions more or less as i am coming up on the turns." That's not at all what it means to engineers.

    Lawyers tend to be pretty precise in the words they use in contracts and agreements, so it's not clear to me that the lawyers didn't mean the technical term.
  20. #70  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    Real-time OS's are a special kind of OS usually used in things like nav systems, industrial machines, automobile controllers, medical equipment, etc.

    They make sure that instructions and processes always operate on a fixed schedule, rather than allowing interrupts, garbage collection, recalcitrant threads and the like to change the amount of time it takes for things to happen.

    Wind River, QNX, VxWorks, etc. are examples.

    What you don't want in such situations is an OS that will pause every once in awhile to do things other than the foreground process, which is exactly what os x does.

    See, e.g.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_time_operating_system
    Ah excellent. That's good to know. Thanks for the information.
  21. #71  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmaier View Post
    yes, but "real time," with regard to purpose, means something specific in the art. To customers, it means "turn by turn driving directions more or less as i am coming up on the turns." That's not at all what it means to engineers.

    Lawyers tend to be pretty precise in the words they use in contracts and agreements, so it's not clear to me that the lawyers didn't mean the technical term.
    Ok, and I guess we do have to consider the context and audience: it's aimed at developers. All I want is TomTom - I'll take my chances.
  22. #72  
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    Hey, their language makes me nervous, too.

    Guess we'll see.
  23. #73  
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    When Engadget/Gizmodo/main stream media pick this up we might get a response from Apple.
  24. #74  
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    Didn't take too long for Engadget a Gizmodo to get articles up:

    http://gizmodo.com/5015389/iphone-sd...d-saving-lives

    http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/0...dance-dancing/

    Engadget makes some interesting points:

    Apple's always been known for its amusingly-conservative disclaimers (you can't use iTunes to "design a nuclear weapon," for example) and it looks like the products-liability team at the Fruit has had their way with the iPhone SDK agreement as well, inserting a provision specifically prohibiting developers from creating apps "marketed for real time route guidance; automatic or autonomous control of vehicles, aircraft, or other mechanical devices; dispatch or fleet management; or emergency or life-saving purposes." Yep, that's right -- no real-time route guidance (or, uh, fleet management) allowed. That'd be a huge bummer -- except, of course, that TomTom has already come out and said that its app is ready to go on the iPhone. Assuming TomTom used the SDK and not the jailbreak toolchain, we'd bet that Apple is just covering its *** here and that it's worked out an agreement with TomTom to pass along any liability -- you can bet Steve doesn't want to get sued when iPhone users start careening into sandpiles and into oncoming trains. We'll see for sure when the App Store finally launches, though -- until then, it's all just cheap speculation.

    Update: Astute commenter Austin points out that these terms are copied almost word-for-word from the Google Maps API terms -- which means that TomTom and others are probably free to use their own maps to do real-time guidance.
  25. #75  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    Didn't take too long for Engadget a Gizmodo to get articles up:

    http://gizmodo.com/5015389/iphone-sd...d-saving-lives

    http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/0...dance-dancing/

    Engadget makes some interesting points:
    The key phrase is "marketed for..." One can make one's application do anything one wants as long as one does not claim that it will do so. The idea that the user is responsible for whatever happens dates from IBM contracts in the sixties. (I remember trying to explain that idea to Boeing engineers who were using the computer to build airliners.) The TomTom splash screen says that you can only "operate" the device while parked. This is not so much the fault of the vendors as of those who expect to collect millions of dollars because they pour hot coffee on themselves and their lawyers. The nice part about software is that one can disclaim any "intended use" and thus avoid implied warranty that goes with an "intended use."
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