1. Shadowfalx's Avatar
    Also, newer readers (the chip enabled and NFC enabled ones) use Bluetooth instead of the headphone jack, so you'd be going to those eventually anyway (liability shift).
    09-14-2016 10:49 PM
  2. dictoresno's Avatar
    You obviously did not read the part of the thread where I explained why in this particular service field the dangling dongle does not help.
    Nope must've missed that

    Edit: just checked your posts where I "obviously didn't read" where you explained why you can't use the dongle/adapter. Um you never mentioned anything about that. And so what, it dangles. It still works and you keep your low fees and precious time. So yes, you're new dangly dongle does help. You just don't want to use it on principle because you feel Apple screwed you.
    Last edited by dictoresno; 09-15-2016 at 12:57 AM.
    09-14-2016 10:57 PM
  3. dictoresno's Avatar
    My ONLY point in bringing this up was to remind people that music IS NOT the only use for the headphone jack and I gave an example. No where did I ask for someone to tell me how to run my business or what equipment to buy.
    You're getting very grouchy over this for no reason.

    No one is telling you how to run your business. The other poster was giving you valid alternatives to your current and inevitable issue.

    Obviously businesses that rely on the headphone jack for POS payments are going to be slightly displaced by this. But as the other poster said, these companies may start using Bluetooth or NFC readers soon or may even make an upgraded lightening adapter.

    We understand your frustration and are well aware the headphone jack isn't only used for music. But I'd say 90% of people use it for that and Apple looked at the numbers when deciding to nix it. If a dongle is something you will have to temporarily live with, yelling at us won't fix it. Why don't you reach out to Square and others and see if they are already prototyping lightening adapters for their products. Maybe they will let you test one.
    09-15-2016 12:52 AM
  4. NinjaMom's Avatar
    You're getting very grouchy over this for no reason.

    No one is telling you how to run your business. The other poster was giving you valid alternatives to your current and inevitable issue.

    Obviously businesses that rely on the headphone jack for POS payments are going to be slightly displaced by this. But as the other poster said, these companies may start using Bluetooth or NFC readers soon or may even make an upgraded lightening adapter.

    We understand your frustration and are well aware the headphone jack isn't only used for music. But I'd say 90% of people use it for that and Apple looked at the numbers when deciding to nix it. If a dongle is something you will have to temporarily live with, yelling at us won't fix it. Why don't you reach out to Square and others and see if they are already prototyping lightening adapters for their products. Maybe they will let you test one.
    I'm not grouchy. I'm not yelling at anyone. I most definitely never asked anyone to fix my situation but I have had unsolicited advice crammed down my throat and I have simply been "forced" time and time again to justify why the dongle is not the perfect solution even though discussing how the dongle is not the perfect solution was never my intention to begin with.

    EVERYONE PLEASE READ THIS: Once again. I only brought up this scenario to explain that MUSIC was NOT NECESSARILY the ONLY REASON for the headphone jack. It had other uses. Period. That is all I wanted to throw out there.

    In a perfect world everyone would have read what I had typed and instead of offering unsolicited advice they would have simply said "Yeah, there is that other use for the headphone port".
    09-15-2016 06:45 AM
  5. BrayBreBai's Avatar
    I think Apple wasn't thinking about themselves when they removed the headphone jack but they thought about the millions of consumers who want things like "longer battery life" or "water resistance". They figured since the consumers keep us in business, we have to meet those needs even if we have to give them an "ALTERNATIVE" method of listening to music which if everyone thought about, isn't so bad. The only way they saw fit was to remove it so that it would create more space for the bigger battery and water resistance. They even threw in the adapter so you don't have to buy new headphones or pony up the 160 for their wireless headphones. I really don't think it's that big of a deal
    09-15-2016 07:07 AM
  6. dictoresno's Avatar
    It's not a big deal. They are offering workarounds until companies decide to make lightning adapters. The poster above is just pissed off because she feels slighted by Apple. It makes sense to get rid of the port as its natural progression of technology.
    09-15-2016 07:14 AM
  7. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I think Apple wasn't thinking about themselves when they removed the headphone jack but they thought about the millions of consumers who want things like "longer battery life" or "water resistance". They figured since the consumers keep us in business, we have to meet those needs even if we have to give them an "ALTERNATIVE" method of listening to music which if everyone thought about, isn't so bad. The only way they saw fit was to remove it so that it would create more space for the bigger battery and water resistance. They even threw in the adapter so you don't have to buy new headphones or pony up the 160 for their wireless headphones. I really don't think it's that big of a deal
    Things change, and some people don't like change. Fire years from now it might be that you can't buy a single phone with a 1960's jack incorporated into the design.

    I don't think Apple was "thinking" about Music or Credit Card readers when they decided to do this. They were thinking about the space that a 3.5mm jack and it's associated "parts" require in a design. And maybe not specifically for the iPhone 7, but for future hardware designs.
    NinjaMom likes this.
    09-15-2016 09:20 AM
  8. garfieldthecat's Avatar
    Things change, and some people don't like change. Fire years from now it might be that you can't buy a single phone with a 1960's jack incorporated into the design.
    Is it so hard to keep this discussion ON TOPIC??

    The question is on the technicalities of how much better (if any) lightning headphones can potentially be.

    As explained very clearly at the beginning, it was NOT about whether you agree with the removal of the jack or not; if that's what you want to talk about, there are other discussions, on this site and elsewhere

    Most answers had NOTHING to do with the original question.
    09-15-2016 03:41 PM
  9. NinjaMom's Avatar
    It's not a big deal. They are offering workarounds until companies decide to make lightning adapters. The poster above is just pissed off because she feels slighted by Apple. It makes sense to get rid of the port as its natural progression of technology.
    Lol. Once again. You are completely wrong. I am not pissed. I do not feel slighted by Apple. I am actually finding you acting like you know how I feel very humorous. You obviously can not understand a simple concept that I was never mad at Apple but that I was just bringing to light that the headphone jack was for more than music.
    09-16-2016 10:16 AM
  10. NinjaMom's Avatar
    I doubt the lightning headphones will truly be better than the standard headphone jack. I think it is more about making for less ports to help with waterproofing and streamlining the design.
    09-16-2016 10:19 AM
  11. Craig's Avatar
    Lol. Once again. You are completely wrong. I am not pissed. I do not feel slighted by Apple. I am actually finding you acting like you know how I feel very humorous. You obviously can not understand a simple concept that I was never mad at Apple but that I was just bringing to light that the headphone jack was for more than music.
    It is for a lot of us.. I use Square and will have to deal with the adapter until Square sends us all a lightning jack connector. Granted I don't use it every day.. so not a big deal for me. Your mileage may vary.

    As for the actual topic, even if the lightning connector would provide better sound over the old jack, not sure I would really hear the difference. I think my hearing is pretty good, but that minor change for a MP3 file is (lack of a better term) microscopic. Maybe for a true audiophile, there could be a subtle difference. All that being said, I think now they can come out with better headsets because of the options that the port allows. That part I am excited to see... what progresses in the next year.
    NinjaMom likes this.
    09-16-2016 10:22 AM
  12. Quis89's Avatar
    Lol. Once again. You are completely wrong. I am not pissed. I do not feel slighted by Apple. I am actually finding you acting like you know how I feel very humorous. You obviously can not understand a simple concept that I was never mad at Apple but that I was just bringing to light that the headphone jack was for more than music.
    This is what happens when you go against the Apple norm. People jump out and attack and make you feel like you were wrong.

    I understood your point. It was quite clear. I honestly saw more hostility towards you than you directed towards anyone else.
    NinjaMom likes this.
    09-16-2016 10:36 AM
  13. NinjaMom's Avatar
    This is what happens when you go against the Apple norm. People jump out and attack and make you feel like you were wrong.

    I understood your point. It was quite clear. I honestly saw more hostility towards you than you directed towards anyone else.
    Thank you.
    09-16-2016 02:16 PM
  14. cunningbrad's Avatar
    You guys are almost treating this like a philosophical question. "Why did the creator do what the creator did" and while we are trying to answer this question lets complicate it as much as we can. The creator, in this case Apple, listened to the humans when they cried out "We want better battery life in our electronics!". And the creator says "Ok then I will make the phones bigger."
    Then the humans screams out "We keep on dropping our phone in the toilet because we put them in our back pockets because our phones with its bigger batteries can't fit in our front pockets!"
    So the creator pondered for 2 generation. I will make the phones water resistant by getting rid of this big fat 16mm x 3.5mm diameter gaping hole in our device and make the humans us this already available thin, small connecter to get their music. And since we are removing the humans ability to insert this long mini phallic looking device in our phones, we can make our batteries bigger!
    Period end of story.
    09-16-2016 03:15 PM
  15. garfieldthecat's Avatar
    So the creator pondered for 2 generation. I will make the phones water resistant by getting rid of this big fat 16mm x 3.5mm diameter gaping hole in our device and make the humans us this already available thin, small connecter to get their music. And since we are removing the humans ability to insert this long mini phallic looking device in our phones, we can make our batteries bigger!
    Period end of story.
    Totally off topic! Why on Earth is it so hard to keep this discussion on topic? Again, if you want to talk about how you like this change or not and why, there are other discussions! This was meant to be about the technicalities of lightning vs non-lightning headphones.

    By the way, not only are you off topic, you are also blatantly wrong, because you forget that many of Apple's competitors have managed to make their phones waterproof and with bigger batteries without removing the audio jack.

    I haven't been able to find anything that could even remotely suggest why lightning headphones could be any better. I'd be very, very surprised if lightning headphones come to the market which are better than Shure, Westone, etc. Those who don't know these brands should not even dare say anything on a discussion about the quality of headphones. And, to those who talk about hi-res 24 bit audio, I say I'd be very very surprised to see lightning headphones better than these shure with their own DAC: KSE1500 Electrostatic Earphone System | Shure Americas

    In other words, I had always thought it was a marketing move which had nothing to do with sound quality, and I haven't found the slightest piece of information which could even remotely suggest the opposite.
    NinjaMom likes this.
    09-17-2016 05:06 AM
  16. garfieldthecat's Avatar
    Things change, and some people don't like change. Fire years from now it might be that you can't buy a single phone with a 1960's jack incorporated into the design.
    Sure, that's why Steve Jobs used to drive cars with non-round wheels, because round wheels were such an old technology and we always have to constantly innovate, right?

    The truth is, some things just work and do not need to be changed, other than for marketing and greed. If i am wrong, I haven't exactly been blown away with detailed explanations on why lightning headphones provide better sound quality - if anything, quite the opposite!
    NinjaMom and comiken205 like this.
    09-17-2016 05:09 AM
  17. garfieldthecat's Avatar
    It is for a lot of us.. I use Square and will have to deal with the adapter until Square sends us all a lightning jack connector. Granted I don't use it every day.. so not a big deal for me. Your mileage may vary.

    As for the actual topic, even if the lightning connector would provide better sound over the old jack, not sure I would really hear the difference. I think my hearing is pretty good, but that minor change for a MP3 file is (lack of a better term) microscopic. Maybe for a true audiophile, there could be a subtle difference. All that being said, I think now they can come out with better headsets because of the options that the port allows. That part I am excited to see... what progresses in the next year.
    I am not following. First you say you expect not to be able to tell the difference, then you say you are excited to see the better headsetsthat will come out? And why would they be any better?
    09-17-2016 05:11 AM
  18. Craig's Avatar
    Totally off topic! Why on Earth is it so hard to keep this discussion on topic? Again, if you want to talk about how you like this change or not and why, there are other discussions! This was meant to be about the technicalities of lightning vs non-lightning headphones.
    It goes off topic, because one person (not you) decides to take it off topic by talking about in a nutshell) how the iPhone 7 w/o a headphone jack is bad for their business and everything that is wrong about removing it, etc. So once it derails, it's hard to get back on track. It's like a car accident, once one happens and you have to drive around it, the conversation changes to the wreck. So welcome to a topic car wreck.
    09-17-2016 05:12 AM
  19. C6TX6's Avatar
    You should be able to get PCM digital out AND analog directly from the lightning connector. My adapter is still in the box but I do intend to hook it up to one of my Allen & Heath boards in the studio and run it through its paces. To date the best phone for driving headphones, even big power hungry cans, was the HTC 10!

    Since lightning is so versatile this opens a market for a plethora of devices. Cases can be installed on the phone with built in credit card readers that take chip cards. Square can't do that. If you've shopped at the Apple store you have seen these devices in action.

    These cases can be used to increase run time (built in 3Ah battery), output very high quality signal (built in DAC/ADC) have balanced in/out or high quality stereo mics converting the phone into a high quality recording device, onboard microSD slots to increase storage beyond 2TB. The list goes on and on. All over 1 connection. I do believe in the future they will have to eventually move to USB type C. Imagine hooking your iPhone to a Mac/PC and being able to transfer photos and music at over 1GB/S! The PCI-E SSDs are that fast and the current iPhones now use nvme so access to their flash is lightning fast (pun not intended here).

    The 1/8" TRS connection is dead. Glad to see it go on our devices TBH.

    I remember when the floppy disk drive was killed off abruptly and people squealed about that too.
    blackmagicwoman likes this.
    09-17-2016 07:25 AM
  20. robertk328's Avatar
    I'm curious to see how much better/different the Lightning earpods are. Anyone see any side-by-side comparison reviews?
    09-17-2016 08:25 AM
  21. garfieldthecat's Avatar
    You should be able to get PCM digital out AND analog directly from the lightning connector. My adapter is still in the box but I do intend to hook it up to one of my Allen & Heath boards in the studio and run it through its paces. To date the best phone for driving headphones, even big power hungry cans, was the HTC 10!
    The technology that produces the audio we listen to has nothing to do with the connection type: the drivers of a set of earphone do not 'improve' just because there is lighting connector. For example, in top-of-the-range in-ear-monitors (earphones) like the Westone and the Shure the cable can be replaced; Westone makes a bluetooth cable, meaning the same set of earphones can be used as wired or as bluetooth.

    From what I understand, lightning headphones could potentially be better if they have some sort of DAC that supports 24bit, hi-res audio. s far as I know, there is no other potential advantage in terms of audio quality; if there is, I'd like to know - this was the whole point of my thread before it got hijacked! To get hi-res audio, however, you need:
    • software which supports it
    • files encoded in 24-bit: no use playing a 128 kbit mp3 with hi-res equipment!
    • a DAC; 24-bit DACs are not tiny; will Apple be able to squeeze one into a set of headphones? I doubt it; definitely not in a pair of earphones

    All of this tends to be bulky (because of the DAC), expensive, useless for all the currently available not hi-res audio content, plus you will need very good ears to tell the difference.

    My two cents is that, for 99.99% of users, lightning will NOT result in better quality of the audio.

    On that last point (needing good ears): we humans tend to be extremely unreliable; just telling someone that product A is more expensive than product B is likely to lead them to think that A is better. For example, there is a very strong reason why medical trials are conducted as double-blind: patients don't know if they are in the placebo group, and nor do the doctors monitoring their progress. Just like many wine connoisseurs struggle to tell the difference between cheap and expensive wine in a blind tasting, I do wonder how many audiophiles would be able to really tell the difference among different types of headphones.

    Since lightning is so versatile this opens a market for a plethora of devices. Cases can be installed on the phone with built in credit card readers that take chip cards. Square can't do that. If you've shopped at the Apple store you have seen these devices in action.
    There was no need to remove the audio jack to do these things, though. Oh, and you can potentially do the same with microusb or usb-C.
    [...]
    The 1/8" TRS connection is dead. Glad to see it go on our devices TBH.

    I remember when the floppy disk drive was killed off abruptly and people squealed about that too.
    The difference is that floppy disk was becoming inadequate: we needed more storage, and other solutions offered that. None of this is even remotely applicable to the audio jack. The audio jack is not inadequate nor obsolete; the connector (jack, usb, lightning or else) does not affect the technology which actually produces the sound we listen to; getting hi-res audio through lightning is possible, just like it is with the audio jack, but it has the same drawbacks it has with the jack: bulk, cost, inapplicability to the vast majority of current content, etc.
    09-17-2016 02:57 PM
  22. robsawalker's Avatar
    I'm not talking about DAC's. I'm talking about the ability to make the audio sound good. Fine tuning actually frequencies of audio. Radsone allows this, however it doesn't work that well because the iPhone itself can't push audio properly. This was done in a side by side comparison of using Radsone and its 10 band equalizer side by side with my Fiio X5 and its 10 band equalizer, both while using my Shure SE310's. The iPhone just cannot push audio to the degree it needs to be. The average user will never notice and never care. I do.
    In that case, the new iPhone is better for you as it is DAC agnostic. The lightning port is unable to pass an analogue signal, so you can add whatever DAC and Amp you want and tune it until your head bursts. Before the iP7 you were limited by the phones internal DAC and Amp. So now you can celebrate!
    09-18-2016 04:31 PM
  23. metllicamilitia's Avatar
    In that case, the new iPhone is better for you as it is DAC agnostic. The lightning port is unable to pass an analogue signal, so you can add whatever DAC and Amp you want and tune it until your head bursts. Before the iP7 you were limited by the phones internal DAC and Amp. So now you can celebrate!
    I wish that were the case, however I doubt Apple has done anything to improve the inner workings of the audio hardware. And still, there is no functional equalizer.
    09-18-2016 06:13 PM
  24. robsawalker's Avatar
    I wish that were the case, however I doubt Apple has done anything to improve the inner workings of the audio hardware. And still, there is no functional equalizer.
    You misunderstand - there is NO 'inner hardware' for audio passed through the lightning port. It simply passes the compressed digital out to whatever DAC and Amp are plugged into the phone. So the iPhone 7 sound quality (via the lightning port) will depend entirely on what you plug into it.
    09-19-2016 05:23 AM
  25. metllicamilitia's Avatar
    You misunderstand - there is NO 'inner hardware' for audio passed through the lightning port. It simply passes the compressed digital out to whatever DAC and Amp are plugged into the phone. So the iPhone 7 sound quality (via the lightning port) will depend entirely on what you plug into it.
    There are internal components on media players for audio. Like an audio chip, and soundboard, and such. An equalizer tweaks sound by frequency. If the internal components can't handle that tweaking, it's makes the sound bad even if it's slightly better. This is quite noticeable on iPhone. The app Radsone has a ten band equalizer, while it makes the sound much better than stock, it really makes the iPhones inferior audio components shine through.
    09-19-2016 08:11 AM
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