1. dnbush's Avatar
    I just got my 5S and as I was setting up the Touch ID I seem to have discovered something that I hadn't read about.

    You see, I understand and agree that using our fingerprints is a more secure way of identifying us to our phones; more secure than a simple passcode. So given that and the understanding that Touch ID was being marketed as making access to our phones more secure, I was surprised to see that you can fail at having the phone recognize your fingerprint and it will default to your passcode. Three unsuccessful attempts and you're presented with the passcode screen

    In fact you can simply hit the home button once and slide to reveal the passcode screen.

    Am I missing a setting some where? Seems to me that if you want access to be more secure than a passcode the phone should have the ability to allow access *only* via fingerprint.

    As it is, if my phone is lost/stolen or even borrowed without me knowing, it's just like having a non-Touch ID phone. No more secure.

    So my question is, am I missing something or is Touch ID just a convenience and not meant to make access more secure (at least not yet)?
    09-25-2013 11:33 PM
  2. ELavar's Avatar
    I just got my 5S and as I was setting up the Touch ID I seem to have discovered something that I hadn't read about.

    You see, I understand and agree that using our fingerprints is a more secure way of identifying us to our phones; more secure than a simple passcode. So given that and the understanding that Touch ID was being marketed as making access to our phones more secure, I was surprised to see that you can fail at having the phone recognize your fingerprint and it will default to your passcode. Three unsuccessful attempts and you're presented with the passcode screen

    In fact you can simply hit the home button once and slide to reveal the passcode screen.

    Am I missing a setting some where? Seems to me that if you want access to be more secure than a passcode the phone should have the ability to allow access *only* via fingerprint.

    As it is, if my phone is lost/stolen or even borrowed without me knowing, it's just like having a non-Touch ID phone. No more secure.

    So my question is, am I missing something or is Touch ID just a convenience and not meant to make access more secure (at least not yet)?
    My understanding is that the Touch ID is specifically for convenience. Apparently, there are many iPhone users who don't use a pin because it's "inconvenient." Touch ID gives these people a cool and convenient way to secure their phones, but it isn't as secure as using a pin.
    09-26-2013 12:15 AM
  3. dnbush's Avatar
    I would agree with the convenience aspect but I do remember during the launch that a lot was said about how much more secure a fingerprint is than a pin (and it is) but apparently Apple has decided not to implement it in the way needed to take advantage of that. Yet.
    09-26-2013 12:19 AM
  4. antiprotest's Avatar
    You must have a passcode in place as a backup, so that you won't lock yourself out if the fingerprint does not work for some reason.

    In this case, the 4-digit passcode might be the weak link, and the sensor is for convenience. But the combo is as secure as the 4-digit code has always been, not less secure.

    However, if you want the combo to be stronger than a 4-digit code, then go to settings and turn off "simple passcode" and set up a super complex alpha-numeric code. That can be your backup, which you might not need very often.
    09-26-2013 01:04 AM
  5. GibMcFragger's Avatar
    You have to have a passcode backup. Think of it this way. Imagine the fingerprint sensor screws up. If you didn't have a secondary way of unlocking your phone, you would have a useless brick. Imagine all the anger from people, along with the increase in warranty claims.

    It's mainly a quick way for people that are too lazy to use a passcode to have some security on their iPhone when they normally wouldn't.
    09-26-2013 01:11 AM
  6. B1ue_B1aze's Avatar
    I suppose there could be a Touch ID only option. Just have a warning that says if you lock yourself out you'll lose everything and any lock out related issues aren't covered by support or warranty. Not that anyone would listen to the warning though and would still complain about being locked out.
    09-26-2013 01:26 AM
  7. mynameis's Avatar
    I really don't like the idea of my fingerprint being saved on my phone. I don't know, that's just me. I also don't think it would be as secure as a pin.
    09-26-2013 02:15 AM
  8. Donnee's Avatar
    Trouble is there is always a trade off between convenience and security. They could give you a phone that requires a 14 digit alphanumeric code, a DNA sample and a pinky toe print to unlock, but nobody is going to have the time for that.

    As for still having the pin there, as others have said that's there for if the sensor breaks or can't work for some reason (paper cut on your finger, wearing gloves, hardware failure etc). While the pin being enabled might seem just as insecure as the old version, the main way someone's going to guess your pin is by seeing it over your shoulder / working it out from the grease pattern on the screen. At least in theory if you're using touch id your pin should have less chance of being compromised in the first place (easier to keep something secret if you're not typing it on a massive keypad 200 times a day!)
    09-26-2013 02:49 AM
  9. iEd's Avatar
    This is what's on the 5s page Appe.com

    You check your iPhone dozens and dozens of times a day, probably more. Entering a passcode each time just slows you down. But you do it because making sure no one else has access to your iPhone is important. With iPhone 5s, getting into your phone is faster, easier, and even a little futuristic. Introducing Touch ID — a new fingerprint identity sensor.

    Put your finger on the Home button, and just like that your iPhone unlocks. It’s a convenient and highly secure way to access your phone. Your fingerprint can also approve purchases from iTunes Store, the App Store, and the iBooks Store, so you don’t have to enter your password. And Touch ID is capable of 360-degree readability. Which means no matter what its orientation — portrait, landscape, or anything in between — your iPhone reads your fingerprint and knows who you are. And because Touch ID lets you enroll multiple fingerprints, it knows the people you trust, too.


    So it's faster way to access your phone. Highly secure I guess in that it cuts the possibility of someone watch you put in your pass code.

    They possibly may have fingerprint ID only in the future but if it were fingerprint only and after 3 try you're locked out how do you get in without a passcode? Having the passcode as a manual safeguard is good. No one can unlock your phone without a passcode but you can do it faster with Fingerprint ID. Adding "trusted" persons fingerprint is up to the user. I wouldn't do it unless it was Kate Upton.
    09-26-2013 02:49 AM
  10. dnbush's Avatar
    I agree with what everyone has said above about it being a convenience and that you need a pin as a backup so you don't lock yourself out, etc. I guess I wouldn't have reacted this way had it not been initially presented as being a more secure way to access your phone. And certainly that's what the media has run with. Notice how the stories quickly popped up and caused so much buzz about how Touch ID was able to be fooled with scotch tape, cat's paws and even nipples! The underlying message of these is that the new iPhone is not a secure as you think! Well, the true is it's not any less secure but adding Touch ID certainly did not make it more secure than before.
    09-26-2013 09:57 AM
  11. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    After setting up TouchId, I changed my passcode to be 10+ characters, numbers, and symbols so I would say that my phone is much more secure than before with only a 4 digit passcode.
    09-26-2013 09:58 AM
  12. RayHollister's Avatar
    This is how an iPhone 5S with Touch ID can be more secure than one without it. When I got my iPhone 5S I changed my passcode to a 35+ character passcode with numbers and symbols. I'm not concerned about anyone guessing my passcode. According to HowSecureIsmyPassword.net it
    would take a quatturodecillion years to crack my password. And I only have to enter it if I fail the Touch ID three times.

    Prior to getting my iPhone 5S, I did not have a passcode on my 4S because it was annoying entering even a four digit pin. I never even notice the time it takes to scan my fingerprint.
    09-26-2013 10:11 AM
  13. iEd's Avatar
    It's a great feature
    09-26-2013 10:26 AM
  14. bitshifter1001's Avatar
    I really don't like the idea of my fingerprint being saved on my phone. I don't know, that's just me. I also don't think it would be as secure as a pin.
    It doesn't store your fingerprint. It stores a mathematical representation of your fingerprint.
    09-26-2013 11:00 AM
  15. dnbush's Avatar
    Karenkcoulter and RayHollister. What both of you did was to make your phone more secure by creating a non-simple passcode. You didn't need Touch ID for that. You could have done that on the 5C. What Touch ID added for you was convenience, not additional security. That's my point.
    09-26-2013 11:08 AM
  16. Fausty82's Avatar
    I would agree with the convenience aspect but I do remember during the launch that a lot was said about how much more secure a fingerprint is than a pin (and it is) but apparently Apple has decided not to implement it in the way needed to take advantage of that. Yet.
    The major difference between a passcode and a fingerprint reader is basic. A passcode is something that you KNOW. A fingerprint is something that you ARE.
    09-26-2013 11:18 AM
  17. bitshifter1001's Avatar
    Notice how the stories quickly popped up and caused so much buzz about how Touch ID was able to be fooled with scotch tape, cat's paws and even nipples!
    I'm sorry but none of this is true. The cats paw was registered just like a finger, as was the nipple. As for scotch tape, I'm not sure where you got that. If you are referring to the German hacker group, there were a dozen steps involved. I don't even recall if they used tape.
    09-26-2013 11:19 AM
  18. Fausty82's Avatar
    Karenkcoulter and RayHollister. What both of you did was to make your phone more secure by creating a non-simple passcode. You didn't need Touch ID for that. You could have done that on the 5C. What Touch ID added for you was convenience, not additional security. That's my point.
    I'm sorry but none of this is true. The cats paw was registered just like a finger, as was the nipple. As for scotch tape, I'm not sure where you got that. If you are referring to the German hacker group, there were a dozen steps involved. I don't even recall if they used tape.
    When you add a longer, more secure password to the fingerprint reader, you definitely did increase the security on your iPhone...
    09-26-2013 11:26 AM
  19. dnbush's Avatar
    bitshifter1001, true or not is irrelevant. Apple presented this technology (intentionally or not) as making your iPhone more secure. My contention is that it doesn't. These stories, true or not, exist for the most part because of that claim of enhanced security. Basically, Apple said it's more secure and folks out there said, "Oh yeah? Well, we'll see about that!" and proceeded to try to show that its not.
    09-26-2013 11:28 AM
  20. dnbush's Avatar
    When you add a longer, more secure password to the fingerprint reader, you definitely did increase the security on your iPhone...
    Yes, you did increase the security but you didn't need Touch ID to do that. That's my point. Touch ID simply made it more convenient.
    09-26-2013 11:30 AM
  21. iEd's Avatar
    As far as iPhone touch ID is concerned more secure just means an added level of security in my opinion. There's always the possibility of added security being compromised. Just enjoy the technology.
    09-26-2013 11:51 AM
  22. Fausty82's Avatar
    Yes, you did increase the security but you didn't need Touch ID to do that. That's my point. Touch ID simply made it more convenient.
    True. Human nature being what it is, people will follow flowing water to the path of least resistance. The fact that TouchID DOES make it easier for the phone owner (the one with the "biometric password" attached to their finger) to get into their phone with a more secure password in place. THAT is a good thing. In fact, activating TouchID actually requires the user to setup, at a minimum, a 4-digit passcode, making their previously unsecured iPhone more secure.

    I sometimes will text or respond to a text while sitting at a stop light. (I don’t EVER text while the car is moving.) Having an 8-12 digit password takes too long to enter and still leave time for a quick text/response in the allotted time. But having the TouchID option, I can set a long, more secure password, and STILL do the needful quickly and conveniently.
    09-26-2013 11:52 AM
  23. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    Karenkcoulter and RayHollister. What both of you did was to make your phone more secure by creating a non-simple passcode. You didn't need Touch ID for that. You could have done that on the 5C. What Touch ID added for you was convenience, not additional security. That's my point.
    Well, of course, but I'm not going to use a long complicated passcode for the 100s of times a day I unlock my phone. A 4 digit one was bad enough. And for the 50%+ of people who never had a passcode at all, having TouchId makes them have a passcode and that makes their device more secure than it was before.
    09-26-2013 12:01 PM
  24. warcraftWidow's Avatar
    I'm sorry but none of this is true. The cats paw was registered just like a finger, as was the nipple. As for scotch tape, I'm not sure where you got that. If you are referring to the German hacker group, there were a dozen steps involved. I don't even recall if they used tape.
    And it took them lots of money in equipment and about 30 hours.
    09-26-2013 12:02 PM
  25. dnbush's Avatar
    And for the 50%+ of people who never had a passcode at all, having TouchId makes them have a passcode and that makes their device more secure than it was before.
    Now in that case yes, Touch ID makes the phone for those people more secure.
    09-26-2013 12:08 PM
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