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  1. Thread AuthorThread Author   #1  
    cpc12's Avatar
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    Default Apple should come back to the US

    With the constant success of apple products and profit margins up the giggy I think Apple should bite the bullet and bring all manufacturing back to the USA.

    It's obvious with the QC issues of the i5 and people still can't find one that they can afford to cut profit margins and make a better name for themselves.

    Do they really need to pay poor people 4 cents an hour to make there products. It will in time tarnish there image.

    Think of how many jobs they could bring back to the US.

    So what if they lose 15% of the profit margin paying Americans more than the Chinese.

    I for one would feel even better about a company I already love if they moved operations back here.
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    Default Apple should come back to the US

    Uh apple is every state don't you see? They are all over.
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    Default Re: Apple should come back to the US

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    Default Apple should come back to the US

    Quote Originally Posted by BLiNK View Post
    What's the email for?
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    Default Re: Apple should come back to the US

    Quote Originally Posted by Pink iPhone4S View Post
    Uh apple is every state don't you see? They are all over.
    oh man lol
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    Default Apple should come back to the US

    Quote Originally Posted by BLiNK View Post
    oh man lol
    Yeah?
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    Default Apple should come back to the US

    It will never happen. With manufacturing costs here in the US, there's absolutely no way that Apple could make their products here and make a profit. Costs for products would have to go up 75-100% to maintain profitability for Apple. That means your iPhone would be $400 on-contract and your new 13" MacBook Pro would run you $5,000 instead of $2500.
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    Default Apple should come back to the US

    Quote Originally Posted by jclisenby View Post
    It will never happen. With manufacturing costs here in the US, there's absolutely no way that Apple could make their products here and make a profit. Costs for products would have to go up 75-100% to maintain profitability for Apple. That means your iPhone would be $400 on-contract and your new 13" MacBook Pro would run you $5,000 instead of $2500.
    I agree with you ^ 10+ points
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  9. #9  
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    Default Apple should come back to the US

    Quote Originally Posted by jclisenby View Post
    It will never happen. With manufacturing costs here in the US, there's absolutely no way that Apple could make their products here and make a profit. Costs for products would have to go up 75-100% to maintain profitability for Apple. That means your iPhone would be $400 on-contract and your new 13" MacBook Pro would run you $5,000 instead of $2500.
    Very true.


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    Default Apple should come back to the US

    Some studies I've read have said that an iPhone produced in America in union shops could run as much as $2000 for Apple to keep the same amount of profit per device they are making now, which is actually a lot less than you may think.
  11. #11  
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    Default Re: Apple should come back to the US

    It's funny that you understand it as being purely a profit driven situation...when in reality, it's a combination of things that keep manufacturing over seas.

    For starters, you naively assume that the people who would do the work here would some how increase the QC that goes into the product...have you paid attention to the last 20+ years of American made cars? Only just recently have quality satisfaction ratings risen above "poor" on cars made in the U.S., and that is ONLY because the big three manufacturers are literally walking on egg shells and must over perform to meet the expectations placed on them by the government, tax payers and consumers. Then look at the overseas companies that bring manufacturing here to the states...check out the satisfaction ratings of people who bought BMW models built in Germany vs. those built here in the states. It speaks worlds.

    Secondly...the % of money that would be redirected back into the product is not something that a company can just plug in and KNOW consumers will be ok with. You might be, a million consumers might be, but when you're dealing with tens of millions of consumers, you have to look at the whole picture. Let's say your 15% number is right just for arguments sake, at an unlocked price of $649, your % equals almost $100 in extra cost to the consumer...and with a product that costs so little, that amount of increase is going to dramatically effect sales. Look at how people react to gas prices...the changes there are MUCH smaller, and MUCH more spread out...but people absolutely lose their minds about it. This product isn't a necessity, it's a luxury...

    Lastly, the pay to the employees is only one tiny piece of the puzzle when it comes to overseas manufacturing...taxes, pollution and waste disposal regulations, employee benefit costs, etc etc etc...the list goes for MILES vs. overseas production. Take that 15% you blindly estimated and jack it up A LOT more to be realistic.

    In the end, the products we know, use and love would end up costing a staggering amount more...with ZERO guarantee of better quality (and based on historic record, a pretty good assumption that QC would maintain or lower).
    "Speed has never killed anyone; suddenly becoming stationary...that's what gets you." - Jeremy Clarkson
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    Default Apple should come back to the US

    Quote Originally Posted by SeanHRCC View Post
    It's funny that you understand it as being purely a profit driven situation...when in reality, it's a combination of things that keep manufacturing over seas.

    For starters, you naively assume that the people who would do the work here would some how increase the QC that goes into the product...have you paid attention to the last 20+ years of American made cars? Only just recently have quality satisfaction ratings risen above "poor" on cars made in the U.S., and that is ONLY because the big three manufacturers are literally walking on egg shells and must over perform to meet the expectations placed on them by the government, tax payers and consumers.

    Secondly...the % of money that would be redirected back into the product is not something that a company can just plug in and KNOW consumers will be ok with. You might be, a million consumers might be, but when you're dealing with tens of millions of consumers, you have to look at the whole picture. Let's say your 15% number is right just for arguments sake, at an unlocked price of $649, your % equals almost $100 in extra cost to the consumer...and with a product that costs so little, that amount of increase is going to dramatically effect sales. Look at how people react to gas prices...the changes there are MUCH smaller, and MUCH more spread out...but people absolutely lose their minds about it. This product isn't a necessity, it's a luxury...

    Lastly, the pay to the employees is only one tiny piece of the puzzle when it comes to overseas manufacturing...taxes, pollution and waste disposal regulations, employee benefit costs, etc etc etc...the list goes for MILES vs. overseas production. Take that 15% you blindly estimated and jack it up a bit more to be realistic.

    In the end, the products we know, use and love would end up costing a staggering amount more...with ZERO guarantee of better quality (and based on historic record, a pretty good assumption that QC would maintain or lower).
    I totally agree with you. Profit is the easiest way to look at it; however, there is so much more to it. Utility costs in the US would run 2-3 times more per hour, management costs per employee would be huge, quality couldn't be ensured. Tons of reasons it's totally not feasible to bring this manufacturing to the US.
  13. #13  
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    Default Re: Apple should come back to the US

    Quote Originally Posted by jclisenby View Post
    It will never happen. With manufacturing costs here in the US, there's absolutely no way that Apple could make their products here and make a profit. Costs for products would have to go up 75-100% to maintain profitability for Apple. That means your iPhone would be $400 on-contract and your new 13" MacBook Pro would run you $5,000 instead of $2500.
    Quote Originally Posted by jclisenby View Post
    Some studies I've read have said that an iPhone produced in America in union shops could run as much as $2000 for Apple to keep the same amount of profit per device they are making now, which is actually a lot less than you may think.
    Quote Originally Posted by SeanHRCC View Post
    It's funny that you understand it as being purely a profit driven situation...when in reality, it's a combination of things that keep manufacturing over seas.

    For starters, you naively assume that the people who would do the work here would some how increase the QC that goes into the product...have you paid attention to the last 20+ years of American made cars? Only just recently have quality satisfaction ratings risen above "poor" on cars made in the U.S., and that is ONLY because the big three manufacturers are literally walking on egg shells and must over perform to meet the expectations placed on them by the government, tax payers and consumers. Then look at the overseas companies that bring manufacturing here to the states...check out the satisfaction ratings of people who bought BMW models built in Germany vs. those built here in the states. It speaks worlds.

    Secondly...the % of money that would be redirected back into the product is not something that a company can just plug in and KNOW consumers will be ok with. You might be, a million consumers might be, but when you're dealing with tens of millions of consumers, you have to look at the whole picture. Let's say your 15% number is right just for arguments sake, at an unlocked price of $649, your % equals almost $100 in extra cost to the consumer...and with a product that costs so little, that amount of increase is going to dramatically effect sales. Look at how people react to gas prices...the changes there are MUCH smaller, and MUCH more spread out...but people absolutely lose their minds about it. This product isn't a necessity, it's a luxury...

    Lastly, the pay to the employees is only one tiny piece of the puzzle when it comes to overseas manufacturing...taxes, pollution and waste disposal regulations, employee benefit costs, etc etc etc...the list goes for MILES vs. overseas production. Take that 15% you blindly estimated and jack it up A LOT more to be realistic.

    In the end, the products we know, use and love would end up costing a staggering amount more...with ZERO guarantee of better quality (and based on historic record, a pretty good assumption that QC would maintain or lower).
    What jclisenby & Sean stated are some of the things that certain political figures would rather you not know because it contradicts the misinformation being spread in regard to the so-called "evil rich" and the outsourcing of what they view to be lost American jobs. Well done, guys....
  14. Thread AuthorThread Author   #14  
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    Default Apple should come back to the US

    You have some good points. I guess it's not just what they pay the employees.

    I just see those " concentration " type factories with horrible working conditions.

    Those people work like dogs over there for pennies on a dollar.

    I can't understand how the cost would go up as much as you guys stated it really sucks that its like that.

    This is the reason we are struggling as a country, we lost all manufacturing and can't get it back because of tax laws and the fact that other people will work for $12 bucks a week.
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    Default Re: Apple should come back to the US

    Quote Originally Posted by cpc12 View Post
    You have some good points. I guess it's not just what they pay the employees.

    I just see those " concentration " type factories with horrible working conditions.

    Those people work like dogs over there for pennies on a dollar.

    I can't understand how the cost would go up as much as you guys stated it really sucks that its like that.

    This is the reason we are struggling as a country, we lost all manufacturing and can't get it back because of tax laws and the fact that other people will work for $12 bucks a week.
    I've had the privilege of traveling throughout the world, especially during my Marine Corps days and what we Americans may consider inhumane or sub-par, is normal and acceptable in certain parts of the world. Too many of us don't realize how good we have it in this country and complain about things that others would kill to have or do.
  16. Thread AuthorThread Author   #16  
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    Default Apple should come back to the US

    This is true. The way things are going here it won't be long until we are working for $12 bucks a week.
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    Default Re: Apple should come back to the US

    Quote Originally Posted by cpc12 View Post
    This is true. The way things are going here it won't be long until we are working for $12 bucks a week.
    (laughing)...I hear ya..
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    Default Re: Apple should come back to the US

    Quote Originally Posted by cpc12 View Post
    This is true. The way things are going here it won't be long until we are working for $12 bucks a week.
    If (or when) that happens, you will have the government and the unions to blame. Unions served their purpose back in the day... but in today's world all they do is screw up everything for everyone. They protect workers who screw up and don’t produce. They have given us the "job bank" mentality where workers with no assignment go sit all day and collect their pay. The unions refused to let the companies reduce staff, even when there is no work for them. My brother-in-law is currently in that situation at a GM plant in Flint, MI.
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    Default Re: Apple should come back to the US

    Except for that without Unions still being around, MOST of us wouldn't have weekends off, get paid even close to what we get paid now, or have any benefits at all. We do still need them and we need them just as much now as we did when they started. They're not all perfect, but without them, you can kiss affording a cellphone, having a home or time off goodbye because you'll be lucky if you make $12 an hour or have time off at all. They fight for EVERY worker, whether you know it or not. Everyone needs to read that Howard Zinn book "People's History of the United States". It would open your eyes.
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    Default Apple should come back to the US

    I don't believe bringing Apple back to the US is going to fix Any QC issues that they "might" have. Seems like there isn't much made over here anymore, but even so, we have QC issues as well.


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    Last edited by Irish Rose; 11-27-2012 at 08:08 PM.
  21. #21  
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    Default Apple should come back to the US

    Costs are certainly part of it but there are other reasons too. There's more than one company involved in assembling an iPhone. In china, there is a high density of factories grouped close together which not only reduces costs directly, but also time and inventory storage costs. The utter concentration of industry kinda "feeds" off itself and benefits all parties. Another speed related issue is in being as to quickly re-tool factory machines when issues or problems arise.

    I think it was Steve Jobs (but I could be wrong) who told President Obama at a "captains of industry" meeting that those jobs weren't coming back. He framed it much more eloquently than I did above and and also added something about we didn't have the engineering expertise anymore or in high enough quantity to do this factory tooling and retooling. Or being able to hire tens of thousands of people quickly enough to ramp up production of the latest iPhone.

    As far as working conditions go, from what I've read the Foxconn factories that you see in the news are at the higher end of Chinese manufacturing. Not to excuse any issues or abuses though. And even Foxconn realize that the seemingly endless supply of cheap labor is not going to last. They are starting to replace some of their assembly workers with robots.

    That being said there are more iPhone parts being made in the US than you might think. All the glass is produced by Corning (in KY I think). At least some of the processors are produced in a Samsung factory in TX.

    So bringing jobs back to the US is much more difficult than just moving a factory and hiring Americans. We don't have the training or really even the desire to do the hard work needed for this. And it would take a long time to regain. I'm not trying to say we shouldn't try to regain manufacturing jobs, just that it's not easy.
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    Default Re: Apple should come back to the US

    Blame their government...outsourcing is a part of business, and as long as there is a place where labor is that cheap, that is where ALL business, not just Apple, is going to outsource. And lets not forget...we have a minimum wage law for jobs that are on the books, but look at your common lawn worker, probably making less than $25/day and working from sunrise to sunset...believe me, if this country didn't have laws against child labor, we'd have kids doing sh*t work for next to nothing simply because we could. Our government, while far from perfect, protects people from those kind of work environments.

    Our country will never get to that point because the people of our country wont do the work for that...we've proven this within our own borders, hypocritically crying about illegal immigrants being here but not blinking an eye when they are manually laboring for us. It's just how the system works...the country may be in rough economical shape, but we're not heading towards that kind of situation on a wide scale because A.) We're lazy, and B.) We're used to the way it is now to a point where we'd fight to keep it that way before submitting to it.

    But I also want to touch on your comment about how we've lost all manufacturing jobs...this is FAR from true. We've outsourced consumer products for the better part of the last century, but we've also maintained an extremely strong insource of production as well, but because it's here and it's normal, we don't think about it when we think about jobs. "Made In The USA" is still a very strong business model, and we still have a staggering amount of companies that stand by it. Add to that the fact that selling and servicing outsourced products is something that is still strong (even with e-commerce)...you have to move the products regardless of where they come from, and the more products being produced in China, the more people we need to sell those products.

    These people have jobs because of outsourcing...if you remove that, you turn many of those places into poverty stricken areas like you see so much of in the middle east and Africa. Places where there is no work for people to do so they simply pro-create, spread disease, live terrible lives and then die (most likely due to violence because their areas suck up any kind of normality we live by daily and feed it to militias and tyrant leaders). They may be working for only a few bucks, but they could also be withering away in a rice field with no work and no means of progression. It's only horrific (in terms of income) because we as Americans are spoiled by a system that our country was built on...one cannot look at a country with very different settings and rules and compare/contrast like you are, because it's simply a moot point.
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    Default Re: Apple should come back to the US

    Quote Originally Posted by ame View Post
    Except for that without Unions still being around, MOST of us wouldn't have weekends off, get paid even close to what we get paid now, or have any benefits at all. We do still need them and we need them just as much now as we did when they started. They're not all perfect, but without them, you can kiss affording a cellphone, having a home or time off goodbye because you'll be lucky if you make $12 an hour or have time off at all. They fight for EVERY worker, whether you know it or not. Everyone needs to read that Howard Zinn book "People's History of the United States". It would open your eyes.
    Sorry, I guess we have to agree to disagree here. The unions most definitely served a purpose, but IMO, their time has passed, as evidenced by more and more states becoming "right to work" states.

    And unions are a big part of why most manufacturing has moved off shore. Companies cannot compete with foreign products, given the US labor costs (and waste re: job bank).
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  24. #24  
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    Default Apple should come back to the US


    Perhaps not such an eloquent reply after all!
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    Default Apple should come back to the US

    Yes they should but I can't afford what they would charge for devices then lol
    Maybe I could get a job assembling them lol


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