View Poll Results: Is Apple Getting Negative Attention For This?
- 58. You may not vote on this poll
Yes they look are starting to look bad.
No they are the victims they should pursue Gizmodo.
- 04-30-2010, 10:55 PM #76
I love how you have determined that Powell was drunk. Did you perform the breath analysis yourself? Maybe do an actual blood test? Do tell! You're what, 18? So you know all about how much every individual can drink and what it takes for someone to get drunk. But you get the Olympic Gold in the Conclusion jumping event!
- 04-30-2010, 11:15 PM #77
- 05-01-2010, 07:31 AM #78
Again, if you get careless, you pay the price. Let's say I mistakenly left my iPhone in the backseat of a cab... It would be really nice if the cabbie or the next passenger calls me to graciously return it, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if my misplaced phone gets sold off illegally. Is it right? No. Do I blame the person who sold my phone without my permission? No. I can only blame myself for being careless enough to lose it in the first place. You can't expect people to do the right thing. You have to be prepared to pay for your mistakes. It'll make you more careful the next time. A good lesson in fact.
- 05-01-2010, 08:43 AM #79
- 05-01-2010, 09:16 AM #80
Previous response was was based on a misinterpreted post.
I was objecting to calling Powell a "victim" in the sense that something had happened to him over which he had no control. He made a mistake, but it was his fault (leaving the iPhone there). In that sense he is not a "victim" - but that doesn't justify the actions of Hogan either.
Last edited by cjvitek; 05-01-2010 at 11:49 AM.
- 05-01-2010, 09:27 AM #81
From what I have read, there are a few issues.
First, it appears that according to California law, if you find something and have a reasonable opportunity/ability to return it to the rightful owner, your are obligated to do so. This is not the law in other states, where basically you have "finders keepers". If you do not try to return it in California, then it is stolen property (from what I can determine).
Now, for Gizmodo, ultimately it depends what they guy who sold it to them said. If he told them he tried to return it to Apple and Apple did not claim it, then didn't they guy make a "reasonable attempt" to return it (or at least claim to)? If so, then it would no longer be stolen property. On the other hand, if they guy just said "I found this iPhone prototype in a bar, what to buy it?" then no reasonable attempt was made, and it would be considered stolen (and Gizmodo should not have bought it.).
So without know exactly what the guy who found the iPhone claimed to have done, we can't really place judgement on Gizmodo. When Apple finally did say it was theirs, Gizmodo returned it without question. From what I can understand, when Gizmodo got the phone, it was already "bricked", so Gizmodo didn't have any way of finding the actual owner (other than it just being an Apple prototype).
Personally, I think the guy who found the phone is more at fault than Gizmodo, given California law and simply ethics. He knew who the phone belonged to (both the engineer and the company). He says he made no attempt to return it (he "thought" about calling Apple, or something like that) and instead arranged to sell the phone to someone. The bartender says the engineer returned repeatedly asking about the phone. The guy knew the engineers name, yet never tried to contact him.
Regardless of what he told Gizmodo, according to California law, he was selling a stolen device. At best he simply didn't know about California law (and he should have looked into it before he did anything). At worst he knowingly ignored the law. Either way, he didn't seem to behave very ethically.
- 05-01-2010, 10:18 AM #82
Let me get this straight....
All accidents = careless mistakes = fault/blame.
This whole thread is reminding me of the old justification for rape - the woman enticed the assailant by wearing a skirt. Give me a break.
People know what's right and wrong. Finders are not keepers. A loss may not make you a victim, but if you keep something you find that does not belong to you, it does make you a thief.
- 05-01-2010, 11:46 AM #83
If someone make a careless mistake, it is still their fault. It may have been an accident, but they still did it. IMO, that is a separate issue as to what happened AFTER the phone was lost, and Powell can't be blamed for what happened afterwards.
Legally, however, "lost and found" laws vary from state to state. I believe most states require some sort of attempt, but it can be as minor as simply posting a message in the classified in the newspaper. In some states (like CA) you are required by law to make a significant attempt to return property.
You can certainly argue that ethically someone should always make a strong attempt to return found property. I would agree whole heartedly with that. And it looks like Brian Hogan made a half-hearted attempt at best to return it.
BTW, rereading my previous post, I see I mistyped and it came off incorrectly. I have correct it.
Last edited by cjvitek; 05-01-2010 at 11:51 AM.
- 05-01-2010, 01:01 PM #84
- 05-01-2010, 04:38 PM #85
- 05-02-2010, 09:24 PM #87
- 05-02-2010, 09:48 PM #88
Let me tell you about Hercules LeMieux. Herc was my hero and I never miss the opportunity to tell his story. It was New Years Day and we were returning from our Christmas ski week. My goddaughter drove down the mountain. At the bottom we stopped for gas. Nicole asked if I would drive so that she could sleep. As we started out of town, I realized that there was something wrong with the brakes. To make a long story short, two hours later, my brakes were fixed. Herc had the knowledge, skill, ability, tools, and inclination to fix my brakes at 4pm on New Years Day. When we went to settle, he said, "How about $20 bucks?" I paid him $60- and felt guilty all the way to Boston. When I got home I sent him a check made out to his "favorite charity." The charity turned out to be the local hospital where he was to die four years later.
[Forty miles to the East and I would have been in Maine, known for taking advantage of flat-landers with problems. If you should lose your iPhone, hope that you are in New Hampshire.]
Herc is my hero. He deserves to have his story told. Thanks for indulging me while I tell it one more time.
Last edited by whmurray; 05-02-2010 at 09:51 PM.
- 05-03-2010, 10:18 AM #89
I don't know if he knew the name of the engineer either. He said the saw the Facebook page on the phone before he went to bed but it was wiped when he got up. He may or may not have remembered it.
Regardless, he obviously didn't try very hard to give it back to Apple and that was a mistake.
NONE of this excuses Apple from their horrible behavior however. They didn't report it stolen until it showed up on Gizmodo nearly a month after the loss. They called the DA and local police to encourage them to investigate. They even sent a private team to the guy's house and pressured his roommate to let them search the place - AFTER the phone had been returned.
Folks, the only thing that scares me more than government harassment is corporate harassment. That is totally unacceptable.
- 05-03-2010, 10:40 AM #90
- 05-03-2010, 11:07 AM #91
- 05-03-2010, 11:14 AM #92
- 05-10-2010, 12:06 AM #93
- 05-10-2010, 10:52 PM #94
- 05-11-2010, 12:23 AM #95
- 05-13-2010, 07:43 PM #96