10 Things that "Absolutely suck" about the iPhone. (Yes I have one)

[surur]

Mobileman, there is a rather big difference. WM never promised to give users the "Real Internet". iPhone is being held to higher standards. Get it?

And RSS feeds - of course thats the best way to get info fast. Its what I use all the time. I only go to the full site if a) the story is of interest and b) they do not include it in full.

Do you actually see a full story in a RSS feed and then hop on over to the site for the formatting? That would fit in perfectly in your style-over-substance world.

Surur

 

[mobileman]

Mobileman, there is a rather big difference. WM never promised to give users the "Real Internet". iPhone is being held to higher standards. Get it?

And RSS feeds - of course thats the best way to get info fast. Its what I use all the time. I only go to the full site if a) the story is of interest and b) they do not include it in full.

Do you actually see a full story in a RSS feed and then hop on over to the site for the formatting? That would fit in perfectly in your style-over-substance world.

Surur

No need for me, I just go to the real site. I guess the only thing I'm missing is flash and apparently animated .gifs. Couldnt be missing them to much though because I can never tell the difference.

Microsoft is very smart not to advertise WM as having the true internet. Amazing really because its been around for years and really hasn't improved that much.

 

[AnteL0pe]

Do you actually see a full story in a RSS feed and then hop on over to the site for the formatting? That would fit in perfectly in your style-over-substance world.

Surur

Youre failing to recognize that not everyone falls at the same point on the style |--------------| substance graph, and that any position is just as valid as another. You obviously place little or no value on style, thus WM is better for you. So be it, but that doesnt mean that your position is any better or worse than someone who values style more. You are not a better person, you are not a better phone user, you are not smarter, you are not superior just because you dont value style. The fact that you are taking shots at people who simply dont agree with you is pretty silly.

 

[cmaier]

Once again Surur comes back with a response that the features I value are invalid. Because iphone doesn't have OTHER features, that he values (I say I like the way it views pdfs. he says that since it doesn't SAVE pdfs, it's not a good feature ), I have low functional requirements.

Anyone see the pattern? It's a fundamental disrespect for anyone who harbors differing opinions. He is incapable of discussing anything neutrally, of acknowledging actual benefits of the device he has decided to lambast, or of acknowledging that people who use their phones differently than he does are just as intelligent, demanding, and discerning as he is.

The funny thing is someday Surur will actually try an iphone, realize that the way the core features are implemented actually saves him time and allows him to do things he couldn't do before, realize that being able to set his phone background to an animated klingon maybe isn't so valuable, and will buy 10 iphones to add to his collection.

 

[surur]

cmaier, you are obviously resiting the idea that you have a less capable device. Why I have no idea. No-one is saying you cant love your iPhone, and what it is capable of doing, but arguing that because you love one feature, its more capable and has more functionality that a device that can do the same + more is just irrational.

I can view pdf's with my Adobe Reader on my 3.6 inch VGA-screened WM device. I can even scroll with my fingers. To zoom I click an icon - doesn't kill me to do that, but I can save the pdf to me device, and e-mail it so some-one else etc. Can you even search inside a pdf on the iphone?

How could a rational person not argue my device is a better pdf viewer? Maybe some-one who likes the way you can zoom with two fingers can.

If my device is more capable and more functional, and you are happy with your low functionality device, how can you disagree that your functionality requirements are lower?

Surur

 

[cmaier]

Surur you are changing the subject. I have admitted to every flaw in the device. (And it's still a better pdf viewer because i can see an entire page and read it. At 240x240, you cannot. I can also zoom and navigate it more easily. I know, I've tried it on WM, and everyone who i know who has WM prefers iphone for this task. And I can email a pdf to someone else as well. No, i can't search it, but since all pdfs i deal with are not ocr'd, i wouldn't be able to do this on my desktop, either. And zooming with two fingers is damned helpful when you have a giant pdf that you want to navigate almost as quickly as a stack of paper, so your flippant comment is just ignorant and more evidence you've never tried it).

Now, back to the subject. You said "iphone users demand so little." You continue to insist that anyone who values different features than you, or has different needs than you, or who values a few quality features over quantity of features, is irrational, naive, has low standards, etc. It's disrespectful, and judging by the general lack of people rushing to your defense, it's obviously so.

It's fine to disagree with me, and it's fine to state facts and present arguments, but starting a few pages ago all you've come up with is, essentially, "the fact that you have different needs and requirements than me is illegitimate."

And the fact that you think pdf viewing on your device is as good as on iphone is just another example of you straying from your safety zone of relying on copying first-hand reports; anyone who's actually TRIED an iphone and a WM device would be hard-pressed to summarily declare "my device is a better pdf viewer." That's like arguing Word is the best html editor, because it offers mail merge.

 

[mobileman]

If my device is more capable and more functional, and you are happy with your low functionality device, how can you disagree that your functionality requirements are lower?

Surur

You view rss feeds. I go to the real site. My functionality is higher, how can you stand using you low functionality device?

The music features on the iPhone blow away windows mobile. How can you stand using your low functionality device?

By the way, your vga device is the size of a small laptop.

 

[cmaier]

You view rss feeds. I go to the real site. My functionality is higher, how can you stand using you low functionality device?

The music features on the iPhone blow away windows mobile. How can you stand using your low functionality device?

By the way, your vga device is the size of a small laptop.

Mobileman,

your requirements are illegitimate. It is proper to want to view gigantic animated gifs, but not proper to want to read the ny times with full formating. it is proper to want to be able to save pdfs on your phone, but not to be able to view stunning movies on it. it is improper to accept 320x480, and you should be willing to accept a pocket-busting form factor.

if you weren't such a newbie, you would know that you are simply not asking enough from your phone.

 

[Denny Crane]

Mobileman,

your requirements are illegitimate. It is proper to want to view gigantic animated gifs, but not proper to want to read the ny times with full formating. it is proper to want to be able to save pdfs on your phone, but not to be able to view stunning movies on it. it is improper to accept 320x480, and you should be willing to accept a pocket-busting form factor.

if you weren't such a newbie, you would know that you are simply not asking enough from your phone.

LMAO! You captured the essence of Surur.

 

[mikec#IM]

Or, like in your case, you want to complain when people have different opinions than yours. Either way, it's odd that Mally complained that I post here frequently and didn't comment on the frequent posts of people that have negative iPhone views. I also think a person with over 2200 posts should never comment on how often another person posts. That was my point MikeC. I'm sure you will have an intelligent, positive response.

I don't think I ever complain about people having different views.

As far as the number of posts, I'm not sure that is ever relevant (except maybe for the super-noob with one posts saying "I just got the inside scoop and the a 30GB, 3G, fully open iPhone is coming on Dec 1 and it's $199!").

 

[surur]

And it's still a better pdf viewer because i can see an entire page and read it. At 240x240, you cannot.

My work horse is 480x640. I can see more, and I can see more detail. Do I win now?

Now, back to the subject. You said "iphone users demand so little." You continue to insist that anyone who values different features than you, or has different needs than you, or who values a few quality features over quantity of features, is irrational, naive, has low standards, etc.

I said people who are happy with very few features have low requirements. You still have not explained to me why its wrong. Its not a term of abuse, its a fact.

It's fine to disagree with me, and it's fine to state facts and present arguments, but starting a few pages ago all you've come up with is, essentially, "the fact that you have different needs and requirements than me is illegitimate."

Your interpretation is skewed. I am saying "Your requirements are low. Stop trying to sell your low spec device to me, just because you are happy with it." Its pretty simple really.

And the fact that you think pdf viewing on your device is as good as on iphone is just another example of you straying from your safety zone of relying on copying first-hand reports; anyone who's actually TRIED an iphone and a WM device would be hard-pressed to summarily declare "my device is a better pdf viewer." That's like arguing Word is the best html editor, because it offers mail merge.

Well, it just is. I told you why already. How about trying to tell me why its not.

Surur

 

[mikec#IM]

Agreed. Something that is totally lost on the trifecta (Surur, Mally, MikeC).

While I get all giddy thinking I'm part of some club, don't include me in your iPhone Illuminati paranoia.

 

[mikec#IM]

You are being intentionally insulting. I value:

- being able to read and navigate pdfs and word documents as well as or better than I can on my work desktop machine
- being able to count on my phone not crashing or locking up at inconvenient times (or, as with my treo 650, near constantly)
- being able to browse nearly every website I need to browse and seeing it rendered in a way that is actually useful rather than painful (especially since more and more websites now rely on ajax)
- being able to retrieve imap email from my own mailserver
- being able to write my own working applications for my device
- being able to carry on multiple SMS conversations simultaneously
- being able to access google talk on occasion
- being able to take occasional snapshots that actually look reasonable
- being able to sync with all my outlook contact and calendar data

Now, some of these things can be done on other devices, and some can be done better on other devices (heck bullet by bullet you can probably find a device that's better for any one of those), but I've yet to see a single device that does all of these in combination as well as iphone, and which does so while still "looking pretty" and being a joy to actually use.

Your obsession with 3rd party apps (i want them too) is misplaced when you cite it in the abstract. 3rd party apps are only valuable in that they provide you the ability to do things you need to do that you otherwise couldn't. Webapps happen to suit my needs. I'd still like native apps for various reasons, but I'm happy. My expectations are not low. The damned phone does what I need it to do.

Your refusal to accept that someone could have different priorities than you is simply moronic, and eliminates any shred of credibility you might otherwise have.

I have frequently (on this thread and others) acknowledged problems, even when they aren't of concern to me, as being something that people with different values than my own might be affected by. You are incapable of doing the same, and thus have no credibility with me (I'm sure you're heartbroken).

Yes, the iphone is shiny. But it's possible to be both shiny AND useful, and the iphone represents that combination for me because it does what I need it to do. When you can get your WM devices to instantly bring up a pdf on the screen so i can actually read the entire page at once, and so i can effortlessly and instantaneously page and zoom with as little trouble as I can on my iphone, then WM might become the phone for me.

Cmaier,

Does this mean that since I have acknowledged different people have different priorities, that I have more than a shred of credibility? ;-)

 

[mikec#IM]

for crying out loud it was you who decided to respond to one of my quotes and comment on it. do you not even remember what you say anymore? and what do you resort to? more spin and redirection.

Surur, you're starting to show....and people are noticing.

Now wait a minute, everybody was hating on me, and now surur is getting the brunt of that. I feel so left out... ;-)

 

[surur]

Mobileman,

your requirements are illegitimate. It is proper to want to view gigantic animated gifs, but not proper to want to read the ny times with full formating. it is proper to want to be able to save pdfs on your phone, but not to be able to view stunning movies on it. it is improper to accept 320x480, and you should be willing to accept a pocket-busting form factor.

if you weren't such a newbie, you would know that you are simply not asking enough from your phone.

cmaier, maybe you missed the part where WM devices have a superset of the functionality of an iPhone. I can view gifs, save pdf's, AND view the full NY Times with full formatting and watch stunning movies. Thats the effect of having a more capable device.

Main Entry: ca?pa?ble
6 : having or showing general efficiency and ability

How about putting an end to this argument by just admitting you have a less capable device, which you love. I can assure you no-one will look down on you for that.

Surur

 

[cmaier]

Cmaier,

Does this mean that since I have acknowledged different people have different priorities, that I have more than a shred of credibility? ;-)

yes.

Unlike surur, who has now resorted to "it just is!" as an argument, while ignoring my repeated assertions that being able to view an entire page in readable form and being able to navigate effortlessly are the reason why. (And yes, his higher resolution is even better, but that still doesn't buy him the ease of navigation. And I believe that's one gigantic device.)

He also now is arguing in a loop. iphone users have low requirements because the iphone can't do much. Not that it can't do much that HE IS INTERESTED IN, mind you. It just can't do much. How does he know it can't do much? because iphone users have low requirements. That is why any time an iphone user points out a useful feature or benefit they derive from the device it doesn't count. iphone can do pinch and spread to zoom? that's only impressive because iphone users are dolts; ease of document navigation is not a legitimate feature. iphone has an incredible screen for viewing movies? iphone users value features that are not important. That's just bling. iphone can do email better than can versamail on palm? that can't be good enough for anyone, because some other phone can do it even better, and therefore iphone users have low requirements. (what? you mean you don't need lotus notes connectivity? troglodyte!) iphone fits in your pocket, unlike whatever beast of a device allows easy viewing of pdfs? get bigger pockets!

There's a difference, which I think people recognize, between pointing out differences between devices and shortcomings of devices, and refusing to acknowledge that one user's requirements are just as legitimate as another's.

 

[AnteL0pe]

cmaier, you are obviously resiting the idea that you have a less capable device. Why I have no idea. No-one is saying you cant love your iPhone, and what it is capable of doing, but arguing that because you love one feature, its more capable and has more functionality that a device that can do the same + more is just irrational.

You are sticking to your own definition of "capable." Not everyone needs to do what you do with their phone. If people just want the best mobile browser on the planet, email, text messaging, phone, decent camera plus a lot more then this phone is indeed capable. I have no need to be restricted to a smaller, less clear screen. I have no need to use outlook on my personal phone, I have no need for most of what you are claiming the iPhone can't do. So how is any other device any more capable than the iPhone if the iPhone does everything i need it to?

I said people who are happy with very few features have low requirements. You still have not explained to me why its wrong. Its not a term of abuse, its a fact.

Your implication here is derogatory and shows the failure of your argument. My requirements aren't "lower" than yours, theyre different. I require a larger screen, better browser, more stable OS, cleaner interface and style. I could say that anyone who doesnt require those has "low requirements," but that would be stupid because different people value different features more/less. Your problem is that anyone would be happy with their iPhone, and since you are now realizing that just about everyone who picked one up is happy with it you've decided that they are all less intelligent than you. That somehow your need for different functions and less style makes you more intelligent.

 

[Denny Crane]

cmaier, maybe you missed the part where WM devices have a superset of the functionality of an iPhone. I can view gifs, save pdf's, AND view the full NY Times with full formatting and watch stunning movies. Thats the effect of having a more capable device.



How about putting an end to this argument by just admitting you have a less capable device, which you love. I can assure you no-one will look down on you for that.

Surur

I admit that I have a device that Surur is obsessed with.

 

[surur]

yes.

Unlike surur, who has now resorted to "it just is!" as an argument, while ignoring my repeated assertions that being able to view an entire page in readable form and being able to navigate effortlessly are the reason why. (And yes, his higher resolution is even better, but that still doesn't buy him the ease of navigation. And I believe that's one gigantic device.)

What ease of navigation? I can scroll with my fingers, I can use Find to jump to a section, I can jump to any page numbers. About the only thing I cant do is zoom with two fingers.

I think you are mistaking glitz for ease of navigation.

He also now is arguing in a loop. iphone users have low requirements because the iphone can't do much. Not that it can't do much that HE IS INTERESTED IN, mind you. It just can't do much. How does he know it can't do much? because iphone users have low requirements. That is why any time an iphone user points out a useful feature or benefit they derive from the device it doesn't count. iphone can do pinch and spread to zoom? that's only impressive because iphone users are dolts; ease of document navigation is not a legitimate feature. iphone has an incredible screen for viewing movies? iphone users value features that are not important. That's just bling. iphone can do email better than can versamail on palm? that can't be good enough for anyone, because some other phone can do it even better, and therefore iphone users have low requirements. (what? you mean you don't need lotus notes connectivity? troglodyte!) iphone fits in your pocket, unlike whatever beast of a device allows easy viewing of pdfs? get bigger pockets!

There is no loop. The iPhone has low specs, independent of its users. That iPhone users do not mind the low specs says they have low requirements. No loop, just simple inference.

There's a difference, which I think people recognize, between pointing out differences between devices and shortcomings of devices, and refusing to acknowledge that one user's requirements are just as legitimate as another's.

Who says your requirements are not legitimate, just because they are lower? This is an inference you are making.

Saying your low-spec device is better is where you are going wrong.

Surur

 

[oalvarez]

Oalvarez, no need to get so excited. Its just a message board. You seem to be losing the train of the conversation. Try some deep breathing exercises.

If you love your iPhone just because you love your iPhone, why come here and engage any of us with your posts? Its really not necessary, you know. I'm sure your time is better spend elsewhere.

Surur

no, you're saying that i'm excited but i am not. like your usual self you now begin with the redirection....now you try and paint an untruth about my level of excitability and how this is "just a message board." then you go on with prescribing "deep breathing exercises." derision, spin, redirection, futile attempts at being humorous. we all see it, it's obvious.

this is a forum, one in which i've been posting since 2004. this is the "other handhelds, other devices" section of TreoCentral, where we speak about non-Treo devices. sorry to disappoint you but we're all entitled to participate here and elsewehere.