Is the iPhone an unfinished product?

[oalvarez]

I chose those features because they did not look like design decisions to me, but actual omissions, which the consumer would be expecting. Especially video recording, no matter how crappy, is an often used feature, which would quickly be missed.

Surur

do you have access to their marketing studies to state such?

 

[surur]

Forget about MMS/Video for a second...

- No select, copy, paste?
- No search contacts?

Those are design decisions however. Apple just did not design the contacts to work with filtering and search. Its not the same as leaving out a basic function completely.

Like I said-- "a feature I use" -- for you it's important, but for the rest they can make their own decision. And in two days the public will speak with their wallet one way or another.

My point is not that I use it, but that its very widely used, which makes Apple's omission odd, and suggests it was forced into that decision for some reason. The reason I postulate is that they ran out of time.

Re public acceptance of the deficiencies, the early adopters obviously do not care, and by the time the mass market gets it these features may have been added already.

Surur

 

[surur]

do you have access to their marketing studies to state such?

Nice 2005 article here. I expect the numbers have only increased.

Europe : Two-thirds of mobile phone and PDA users rate ?two-days of battery life during active use? as the most important feature of an ideal converged device of the future, according to a new study by TNS, a leading global provider of market information.

The study, conducted among 15 global countries during July and August 2005, was undertaken to uncover what would drive consumer demand for mobile devices in the future, as well as benchmarking brand performance and use of existing mobile phone, PDA and laptop applications. One section of the study looked at consumer views on ?converged devices? a device which ?will replace the multiple devices which people carry around now for all communication, information and entertainment needs? while being compact and incorporating a mobile phone and high speed Internet as standard.

Topping the wish list of key features in 14 of the 15 countries surveyed is ?two days of battery life during active use?, indicating that insufficient battery life is still a real ?pain point? for consumers today. Reaffirming this, concern with using up battery is one of the top reasons why consumers do not use games, music and TV applications on their mobile more frequently. Respondents in China were the exception, saying ?20 Gigabytes of memory? is the key feature to have in the future.

Across all countries, almost half of respondents say a ?high resolution camera and video camera? (48 per cent) and ?20 Gigabytes of memory? (47 per cent), would be important features to incorporate. In Brazil, a much higher emphasis was placed on video conferencing with 53 per cent of people identifying this as a key feature, compared to an average of just 25 per cent across all countries surveyed.

Following the launch of Apple?s new Rokr iTune phone, Sony?s Walkman W800 and the anticipated arrival of Nokia?s N91 new mobile prior to the Christmas rush, new innovation in mobile technology is once again a hotly contested issue among manufacturers, operators and high street retailers. The market is preparing itself for a period of intense competition to create the new ?must-have? device and build market share.

The results also provide a wealth of insights into how applications are currently being used. The report show that use of MMS is now fairly common, with 46 per cent of mobile phone users interviewed saying they send pictures and photos via MMS, and 23 per cent saying they send video or audio clips through MMS. Sending photos and pictures via MMS is used most amongst mobile phone users in Japan (80 per cent), France (68 per cent), Korea (66 per cent) and UK (65 per cent). ?Expensive charges? was the main reason cited for the lack of MMS take up (46 per cent of mobile users), while 22 per cent of mobile users said ?photo and video quality? was an issue, and 15 per cent thought there were interoperability problems.

Camera use among mobile phones owners is also prevalent, with 59 per cent of people who own camera phones using them at least once a week. Camera phones were used most frequently in France, Korea and the UK with almost a quarter using this function daily. Camera features on PDA?s are used relatively less frequently, with only 46 per cent of PDA users with such a feature using it at least once a week.

The report also highlights differences across markets and shows that internet telephony is used much more widely amongst laptop users in developing compared with developed markets. In Brazil, India and Russia, 44 per cent, 30 per cent and 22 per cent of laptop users respectively use voice over internet protocol (VoIP), compared to just two per cent in Japan and the Netherlands. This is likely to be a reflection of, and reaction to, poorer infrastructure and less affordable telecommunication in developing markets.

Hanis Harun, Global Account Director, TNS Technology, comments:

"The study shows that there is an appetite among consumers for powerful new applications, particularly those around entertainment media and imaging. However, the research also indicates that consumers now fully realise that such applications require enhanced battery life and increased memory and they are demanding these improvements as a priority.

?As mobile operators and handset manufacturers develop more converged communication, information and entertainment devices with a host of innovative features and applications, they need to also ensure the fundamentals are in place. This means products with long battery life and large memories, and services which are cost effective and easy to use."

http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/Sept2005/1944.htm

Surur

 

[Malatesta]

Same thing, different words. Unfinished/rushed is directly implying it shouldn't be released now.

Huh, I actually thought the opposite.

I think it is more than obvious they wanted to get this on the market sooner than later. After all, it was 6 months from annoucement to release, but I bet they wanted to squeeze more features on to it.

It begs the question of what is a finished product? Since Apple already said they are going to roll out updates that has to mean it is not finished and wont' be till they stop developing for it. I bet their developers wish they had more time, they always do.

I think that is somewhat different than asking: did they over look some basic features for initial release?

I think they certainly did. Since they seem to "reinventing the phone" it doesn't appear from reviews that dialing a number or making a call from your contacts is necessarily any different than any other device, which seems odd since that was their main argument--it's too hard to do simple things.

None of the Apple supporters (oalvarez, Archie) seem to be concerend with the lack of such features as the copy/paste, search contacts, IM, MMS, no A2DP, no doc editing e.g. the limitations of the device, as they just wave them off as "I don't use that anyways, so who cares?"

Which is fine, except I wish the same standards would apply to Palm when they don't put in A2DP in certain devices, or omit some other function. Seems to be a double standard.

 

[beachtrader]

Those are design decisions however. Apple just did not design the contacts to work with filtering and search. Its not the same as leaving out a basic function completely.

My point is not that I use it, but that its very widely used, which makes Apple's omission odd, and suggests it was forced into that decision for some reason. The reason I postulate is that they ran out of time.

Re public acceptance of the deficiencies, the early adopters obviously do not care, and by the time the mass market gets it these features may have been added already.

Surur

I think public purchase on Friday and beyond is the test of whether the public wants something or not.

As for the cut and paste. Let's think about this--if you asked 100 people walking down the street talking on a cell phone and asked them this:

How often do you cut and paste text on your phone?

Realistically, what do you think the answer would be?

Remember Jobs wants this to be a high end phone for the mass market.

 

[oalvarez]

2005, not apple inc, and non-US......thanks anyways

 

[surur]

This pack of slides may interest you more then. Its US, from 2006.
http://www.slideshare.net/kuchmuch/device-features-impact-on-media-consumption-mmetrics/

Surur

 

[beachtrader]

<deleted. repost when forum went nuts>

 

[surur]

I think public purchase on Friday and beyond is the test of whether the public wants something or not.

As for the cut and paste. Let's think about this--if you asked 100 people walking down the street talking on a cell phone and asked them this:

How often do you cut and paste text on your phone?

Realistically, what do you think the answer would be?

Remember Jobs wants this to be a high end phone for the mass market.

What would the answer be if you asked 100 users of a "great internet device"? We are talking about cutting and pasting from the web browser, arnt we?

Surur

 

[Malatesta]

How often do you cut and paste text on your phone?

Realistically, what do you think the answer would be?

Remember Jobs wants this to be a high end phone for the mass market.

Ahhh, but that's the rub!

On a regular flip phone, there in no copy/paste because

a) no touchscreen
b) they dont' have the "full internet" on there

Reverse the question: How often to you copy/past on your PC or Mac? Send someone a link? Send a number or information? Copy directions?

I bet it's a lot. That is why all WM ppcs, Blackberry's and Symbian do it. It's a criticl function when you handle information on a mobile communicator/internet device.

 

[oalvarez]

all i asked was if you had access to their meaning marketing studies...i didn't ask for some 2nd or 3rd party marketing pieces but i do thank you for providing them.

it wasn't rushed to market. it has enough on it to sell. if it doesn't have what you want on it, ok, don't buy it. but all indications are that it has enough of what many people want given street sales estimates.

 

[beachtrader]

Those are design decisions however. Apple just did not design the contacts to work with filtering and search. Its not the same as leaving out a basic function completely.

My point is not that I use it, but that its very widely used, which makes Apple's omission odd, and suggests it was forced into that decision for some reason. The reason I postulate is that they ran out of time.

Re public acceptance of the deficiencies, the early adopters obviously do not care, and by the time the mass market gets it these features may have been added already.

Surur

I think public purchase on Friday and beyond is the test of whether the public wants something or not.

As for the cut and paste. Let's think about this--if you asked 100 people walking down the street talking on a cell phone and asked them this:

How often do you cut and paste text on your phone?

Realistically, what do you think the answer would be?

Remember Jobs wants this to be a high end phone for the mass market.

 

[Malatesta]

How often do you cut and paste text on your phone?

Realistically, what do you think the answer would be?

Remember Jobs wants this to be a high end phone for the mass market.

Ahhh, but that's the rub!

On a regular flip phone, there in no copy/paste because

a) no touchscreen
b) they dont' have the "full internet" on there

Reverse the question: How often to you copy/past on your PC or Mac? Send someone a link? Send a number or information? Copy directions?

I bet it's a lot and I think it's a better analogy than a regular cell phone, which the iPhone departs from dramatically. That is why all WM ppcs, Blackberry's and Symbian do it. It's a critical function when you handle information on a mobile communicator/internet device and in fact, I do it quite often.

 

[oalvarez]

there are users that probably don't have a need to cut and paste. there are users that probably don't care to cut and paste. in treocentral there are probably not many of either type.

i am of the former, others here may be of the latter. for the former it isn't enough of a hindrance to not try out the phone, for the latter it's maybe reason not to try out the phone.

not a big deal either way. it will sell without it.

 

[surur]

all i asked was if you had access to their meaning marketing studies...i didn't ask for some 2nd or 3rd party marketing pieces but i do thank you for providing them.

it wasn't rushed to market. it has enough on it to sell. if it doesn't have what you want on it, ok, don't buy it. but all indications are that it has enough of what many people want given street sales estimates.

It seems you believe then that leaving out video and MMS was their intention all along.

This implied that you also believe they will never add it back in (at least in the short term foreseeable future).

If that was the case I believe it would be a major mistake, and will have a market impact.

I think much more likely a more sophisticated video system is in the works that will synchronize with authoring tools on the mac. This obviously takes time.

Surur

 

[Malatesta]

for the latter it isn't enough of a hindrance to not try out the phone, for the former it's maybe reason not to try out the phone.

not a big deal either way. it will sell without it.

Right, but my contention is not that it will effect sales of the device or cause people not to buy it, but rather it would have been easy to implement, since not only does it have a touch screen, but it has multi-touch. Also, this is an internet device and in that category, sharing information (email, SMS, etc.) is a main focus, so it seems strange they'd omit it. In other words: why not?

And if they add it later, what does that mean for this whole discussion? Does it validate the claim that it was rushed? Or they missed some things?

Like I said, had Palm, MS, BB or Symbian not had cut/paste, everyone would be livid and not just shrug it off, case in point: MS Smartphones which don't do that, leave people seaching for a solution.

And this is just one example by which I suggest they over-looked something. Dialing contacts doesn't seem any more futuristic either. Seems Apple gets a pass when they leave out certain features after "reinventing the phone" while other companies are condemned for the same (while being a lot more modest to boot)

Apple claims to be held to a higher standard and with their claims of redifining things, some of us hold them up to it.

 

[beachtrader]

What would the answer be if you asked 100 users of a "great internet device"? We are talking about cutting and pasting from the web browser, arnt we?

Surur

Where are you pasting all of this to? It's not a mobile computer.

I don't do this on my Treo now which has the ability so it's not needed and Apple was right to skip it. Isn't that how it goes in this forum?

You brought up the cut and paste issue when the MMS discussion didn't go your way, so what are your assumptions concerning cut and paste?

 

[beachtrader]

Seems Apple gets a pass when they leave out certain features after "reinventing the phone" while other companies are condemned for the same (while being a lot more modest to boot)

Apple claims to be held to a higher standard and with their claims of redifining things, some of us hold them up to it.

Have you been following this forum? I think this is the most anti-Apple discussion group outside of Microsoft. When has Apple gotten a free pass here?

The real question is this:

What if the iPhone is a mass seller and the public accepts it by selling out or by outselling the Treo? Will the anti-iPhone haters in the forum accept that Apple made a product the public wants and concede that point or simply ignore it and still point out it doesn't have feature "X"?

 

[bruckwine]

Oh yeah. I got 4 kids. When I want to capture them doing something I take a picture knowing that the quality is decent and I can keep it over time rather than a small unviewable video. When I go to any major or minor event and need video I take a real video camera so the captured event can be seen.

Oh brother...why have a 2 MP camera on a phone if it can't do video? All SE have great cams(some even better than 2.0 MP) and can take video. My treo has crappy pics but it takes decent video... Anything that's done on a PHONE can be considered "unviewable"! My VGA treo cam takes pretty viewable video if you replay it at a max of half-screen on a 14" screen, and it looks jsut fine on what it wass made to be shown on a 2.5" screen...your "excuse" - once it's not DVD why bother, i.e. dodging the issue.

A picture is worth a thousand words, but a video is worth about a million. Apple messed up on that lack of feature imo. When ppl go to events they plan ahead so of course they can carry the best camera/phone etc..so then, why not carry a REAL standalone camera w/flash while you're at it as 2 MP blows anyway for anything moving and over 15 ft away w/o goodlight? How about having a landline available too as they cost less and have the best call quality available for communication? The reason is of course, convenience and for the unplanned and unexpected. Or does your life only consist of planned events?

I recall a cellphone video clip helped apprehend a criminal on a subway in New York a year or two back..they gave a pretty good video of the crime rather than a fuzzy pic of someone in motion(as the iPhone seems to do my all reports)..go figure! How dare they have that feature!

I do pray that for the sake of the ones going to pay that $500- 600 plus service that the updates DO allow that. If it is a HARDWARE design then you're set. Thank goodness for freedom of choice...Apple seems to be going to communist way - "have it our way or not at all" !

I don't mind ppl saying they don't use video - fine your choice, but don't be condescending and assuming that everyone elses phones are crap and useless and that you can use it as an opportunity to skirt around what is an obvious flaw in a supposedly "flawless" and "perfect" product.

I think Apple were behind schedule and decided to omit certain features due to market pressure, and are planning to supply SOME of them whenever they can via these "updates"...they've had to delay Leopard and now they have that to make a deadline with it in October.

If they don't provide some of the more demanded basic features (esp video :doh and the phone remains "crippled" wrt certain things considered standard in other contemporary cellphones then it is even worse on their design team and points to the fact that it IS all about money. Whatever happens no doubt you will see the improvements in the regular 6 month cycle ...

 

[beachtrader]

Oh brother...why have a 2 MP camera on a phone if it can't do video? All SE have great cams(some even better than 2.0 MP) and can take video. My treo has crappy pics but it takes decent video... Anything that's done on a PHONE can be considered "unviewable"! My VGA treo cam takes pretty viewable video if you replay it at a max of half-screen on a 14" screen, and it looks jsut fine on what it wass made to be shown on a 2.5" screen...your "excuse" - once it's not DVD why bother, i.e. dodging the issue.

A picture is worth a thousand words, but a video is worth about a million. Apple messed up on that lack of feature simply. When ppl go to events they plan ahead so of course they can carry the best camera/phone etc..so then, why not carry a REAL standalone camera w/flash while you're at it as 2 MP blows anyway for anything moving and over 15 ft away w/o goodlight? How about having a landline available too as they cost less and have the best call quality available for communication? The reason is of course, convenience and for the unplanned and unexpected. Or does your life only consist of planned events?

I recall a cellphone video clip helped apprehend a criminal on a subway in New York a year or two back..they gave a pretty good video of the crime rather than a fuzzy pic of someone in motion(as the iPhone seems to do my all reports)..go figure! How dare they have that feature!

I do pray that for the sake of the ones going to pay that $500- 600 plus service that the updates DO allow that. If it is a HARDWARE design then you're set. Thank goodness for freedom of choice...Apple seems to be going to communist way - "have it our way or not at all" !

I don't mind ppl saying they don't use video - fine your choice, but don't be condescending and assuming that everyone elses phones are crap and useless and that you can use it as an opportunity to skirt around what is an obvious flaw in a supposedly "flawless" and "perfect" product.

It is obvious Apple were behind schedule and decided to omit certain features due to market pressure, sand are planning to supply SOME of them whenever they can via these "updates"...they've had to delay Leopard and now they have that to make a deadline with it in October.

If they don't provide some of the more demanded basic features (esp video :doh and the phone remains "crippled" wrt certain things considered standard in other contemporary cellphones then it is even worse on their design team and points to the fact that it IS all about money. Whatever happens no doubt you will see the improvements in the regular 6 month cycle ...

Hmm. You think I am projecting my beliefs? Get real. All of what you have stated is pure opinion. When was I condensending when multiple people in this forum state things like:

"If they don't provide some of the more demanded basic features"

when I have said all along, and rightly so, that each person need different things in a phone and requires different things. Even a survey pointed out by surur indicates that photos and video is a simply majority of the people to the people who want it. Apple is looking for 1% of the market. So, if they miss the 60% they blow everything else out of the water for sales.

If you are going to jump into the discussion about video between surur and myself at least start from the beginning. Surur stated this is a must basic feature because he uses it. I said that's your opinion. Then he stated that's because you don't have kids. I replied I do and still don't use it because I would rather have good quality rather than a small video. Under no circumstances was I projecting anything other than my opinion to show that just because one person wants or doesn't want something it is not representative of the entire market.