Iphone - Web page MUST be <10 MB - Real Internet LOL, Fark Photoshop threads ROFLMAO

[braj]

Why not just use your existing phone with a Foleo then?

Oh, hang on...

Actually I would rather have a Treo, 8 GB card and Foleo for $600 total than a iPhone v1. As much of a joke as it looks like, for the money it would be a more flexible office with some multimedia, which is what I personally need more than an iPod with an attached phone. Until the iPhone can be a mobile office I think it won't be the best choice for me.

Maybe Palm should consider some bundled pricing for the Foleo and Treo combo. That may be the easiest way to get Foleos into people's hands.

 

[Malatesta]

I can't get MSFT Works out my ROM and it's taking up 200MB!Any suggestions?

c'mon, you're kidding right?

Without barely mentioning the idea of making your own, slippstreamed ROM (where you removed what you don't want, add what you do for auto installation) there is the "legal" and easy method:

XP Lite

I use this on all my machines. Rip out what you don't need, keep what you do. And I'm talking core components here...

I'm thinking if this really bothered you, you never really asked for a solution since XP lite has been around since the late 90's and is very effective :thumbsup:

(and is ROM the right words here? Or do you mean what your PC came with? Only mobile phones have ROM I thought, PCs have HDDs. You could also bypass this Works thing by buying from a different dealer who a) doesn't install XP/Vista and/or provides you with the install disk b) buying a PC with just the OS, no addons. It sounds like you bought a Dell, or Comaq or something. Try a different company, you'll save $$ and get what you want)

 

[Pearl_Diva]

It DOES bother me, but I didn't know what XP Lite was. I'll look into it. Thanks!

Yes, it's a bundled commercial laptop. It's fine except for the ingrained MSFT programs stuck in the ROM/HDD. I "uninstalled" but they're still there taking up space.

 

[Gee-Man]

So we already know there is no flash on the Iphone, and no java either. Now comes even more confidential news about how crippled the Iphone browser really is.


http://forums.figma.com/showthread.php?p=31

So forget about visiting Worth1000 or any FARK photoshop thread, or opening that large word document with pictures in Google docs.

The Iphone is a nice mobile browser, but there are better ones, such as the one on the Nokia N95 that also uses webkit, but actually supports Java and Flash.

Iphone however does not have the Real Internet. What a laugh.

Surur

Hi, I'm typically a lurker here. And for the record, I will NOT be getting an iPhone, I think the 1st release will probably have issues (as most tech products do) so I will wait to see whether it will be a good product before parting with my hard-earned money. I'm also quite happy with my Treo 650 and don't see the need to replace it at the moment.

But as a web developer, this whole thread is based on pure misinformation. The specification you linked to is quite clear and unambiguous - 10 MB limit is the HTML code limit, NOT the size limit of the entire web page! 10 MB of actual HTML code would be one enormous web page, far bigger than anything I'd ever want to visit, even on my desktop computer. I doubt I've ever visited a 10 MB page ever, honestly. You'd be scrolling for what seems like days. A 10 MB page limit makes no sense - if that were the case, there would be no point to having QuickTime support in the iPhone(which it does), since QT movies are tend to be much larger than that.

Let's put it this way, both pages you linked to as theoretically "unviewable" on the iPhone actually contain no more than 156K of HTML code.

I know many people are trying really really hard to be contrarian about the iPhone, mainly because they're sick of hearing about it. I totally understand, believe me the hype feels like it's out of control. But please stick with the facts at hand rather than use whatever limited info we have to come to completely false conclusions. Maybe the iPhone will do what Apple says it will, and maybe it won't. I think it would be best to wait until a few unbiased people get the thing in their hands before coming to any conclusions either way.

 

[braj]

Hi, I'm typically a lurker here. And for the record, I will NOT be getting an iPhone, I think the 1st release will probably have issues (as most tech products do) so I will wait to see whether it will be a good product before parting with my hard-earned money. I'm also quite happy with my Treo 650 and don't see the need to replace it at the moment.

But as a web developer, this whole thread is based on pure misinformation. The specification you linked to is quite clear and unambiguous - 10 MB limit is the HTML code limit, NOT the size limit of the entire web page! 10 MB of actual HTML code would be one enormous web page, far bigger than anything I'd ever want to visit, even on my desktop computer. I doubt I've ever visited a 10 MB page ever, honestly. You'd be scrolling for what seems like days. A 10 MB page limit makes no sense - if that were the case, there would be no point to having QuickTime support in the iPhone(which it does), since QT movies are tend to be much larger than that.

Let's put it this way, both pages you linked to as theoretically "unviewable" on the iPhone actually contain no more than 156K of HTML code.

I know many people are trying really really hard to be contrarian about the iPhone, mainly because they're sick of hearing about it. I totally understand, believe me the hype feels like it's out of control. But please stick with the facts at hand rather than use whatever limited info we have to come to completely false conclusions. Maybe the iPhone will do what Apple says it will, and maybe it won't. I think it would be best to wait until a few unbiased people get the thing in their hands before coming to any conclusions either way.

I really think we need to wait and see what that 10MB limit really means. It could be as you say and that it is 10MB of HTML a (and Javascript) or it could include embedded media etc. I don't think it is entirely clear, even if it specifically says HTML. Does that mean HTML code on pages (only counting the HTML code itself) or HTML coded pages (counting all elements on the page). I don't know for sure. What is the point in the limit? Memory, correct? They don't allow all YouTube pages, only those formatted for compatability. So maybe something similar will end up being the case even for QT (can I load a 200MB QT movie in Safari, for example?).

 

[Pearl_Diva]

10MB still sounds like they mean the whole page files to me, not just the HTML. But if they did truly mean only the HTML, we're safe!

 

[surur]

We don't know, but I am sure the device MUST be memory constrained. I think the 10 MB is HTML AND pictures.

Surur

 

[Treo Rat]

But please stick with the facts at hand rather than use whatever limited info we have to come to completely false conclusions. Maybe the iPhone will do what Apple says it will, and maybe it won't. I think it would be best to wait until a few unbiased people get the thing in their hands before coming to any conclusions either way.

AMEN!

...and I shall return when I get my own iPhone after June 29th like many other Treo users out there and I will give you the pros and cons even though I am a "Machead"

I was at the Cingular store yesterday and heard this guy (with a Treo 650) berating the store employee for not giving him any info at all about the iPhone. I then asked him why he wanted to replace his Treo and he simply said that he wants an iPhone next week because he was sick and tired of 2-3 times his Treo resets daily. I suggested that maybe he should replace his Treo with the Blackberry Curve and his reply - "I want an iPhone!" And oh he was not even a Mac fanboy! He told me his laptop is a Dell

 

[oalvarez]

funny story TreoRat....."so sick and tired of his Treo's 2-3 daily resets".....shame that so many consider that normal operating procedure. let me guess, it doesn't happen to anyone's here.

real life example? just yesterday my friend chucked his Treo in the can after it froze during trying to answer a call...that was the last straw for him too. got online and ordered a new Blackberry Curve.

good stuff

 

[Gee-Man]

We don't know, but I am sure the device MUST be memory constrained. I think the 10 MB is HTML AND pictures.

Surur

It really can't mean that. Look at what the spec says:

10MB max html size for web page
Javascript limited to 5 seconds run time
Javascript allocations limited to 10MB

A page can include Javascript AND HTML, so the fact that they list both as separate line items immediately discounts the "total page limit" theory.

Also, Safari on Mac, like most browsers, uses a progressive loading system - the HTML page is loaded first, then the images are filled in. You wouldn't be able to tell the entire page size until ALL images were fetched, which means that you'd see a completely blank page until everything "pops" on the screen. But it's obvious from looking at all the iPhone videos and demos and looking at Safari itself on a Mac that it uses the exact same progressive loading that it's always used.

If you were right, the iPhone would have to start loading a page, displaying it as normally, then when it reaches the so-called "10MB limit" put up a message in the middle of loading that says "sorry, this page is too big" and blank out the screen.

This makes no sense, Apple's engineers aren't complete idiots as people seem to think they are. Occam's razor and all that - which is more likely, that the spec means exactly what it says it means, which is a 10MB HTML limit (at a developer's conference, no less! Developers like specificity), or that it has a hidden meaning that would render a large number of pages useless on a device advertised as internet capable?

 

[tirk]

funny story TreoRat....."so sick and tired of his Treo's 2-3 daily resets".....shame that so many consider that normal operating procedure. let me guess, it doesn't happen to anyone's here.

real life example? just yesterday my friend chucked his Treo in the can after it froze during trying to answer a call...that was the last straw for him too. got online and ordered a new Blackberry Curve.

I only have my own experience, but my 680 has reset twice I think since I bought it in January. Once was after installing a new app. I've had friends with 600s & 650s that just work (except when they drop them of course!) though many of them are being moved by their employers to BBs now.

A support forum tends to attract the users with problems, perhaps?

 

[surur]

A page can include Javascript AND HTML, so the fact that they list both as separate line items immediately discounts the "total page limit" theory.

I believe thats 10 MB for Javascript data structures (arrays etc).

If you were right, the iPhone would have to start loading a page, displaying it as normally, then when it reaches the so-called "10MB limit" put up a message in the middle of loading that says "sorry, this page is too big" and blank out the screen?

Probably. Jobs is very protective of his phone, and I don't think he wants it to run out of memory and miss calls for any reason. We don't know if the Iphone has virtual memory, and I would be surprised if it had >128 MB RAM. Makes sense he would limit the one portal of uncontrolled data entry on the device, doesn't it?

Surur

 

[mikec#IM]

funny story TreoRat....."so sick and tired of his Treo's 2-3 daily resets".....shame that so many consider that normal operating procedure. let me guess, it doesn't happen to anyone's here.

real life example? just yesterday my friend chucked his Treo in the can after it froze during trying to answer a call...that was the last straw for him too. got online and ordered a new Blackberry Curve.

good stuff

The Palm OS is horrible...2-3 resets a day is just par for th course, esp. if you are using any internet apps (email, IM, etc.)

WM5 on the Treo is very solid (by comparison).

BB Curve is fine...if that's what you are looking for.

I always said if you want a good phone, get a phone, not a combo. The wonderful convergence isn't quite there yet (even with the BB, which as I have said before, are good for email).

 

[tirk]

The Palm OS is horrible...2-3 resets a day is just par for th course, esp. if you are using any internet apps (email, IM, etc.)

Damn, I never realised how lucky I was!

As I said, my experience is very different, so please don't generalise just on yours. How the hell do we know the iPhone won't reset 5 times a day anyway??

 

[Gee-Man]

Probably. Jobs is very protective of his phone, and I don't think he wants it to run out of memory and miss calls for any reason.

It's likely that the iPhone does have a limit of how large a web page can really get. That doesn't mean that the spec says what you think it says. The leaked spec says "10MB HTML limit". Given that this was revealed at a developer conference, this means exactly what it says. The scenario I outlined that you think is probable does not match how Safari or web rendering works at all.

We don't know if the Iphone has virtual memory, and I would be surprised if it had >128 MB RAM. Makes sense he would limit the one portal of uncontrolled data entry on the device, doesn't it?

This is just speculation. No one has said anything about volatile RAM separate from the flash RAM on the iPhone, whether it is present or not, and if it has it, how much is available. You cannot draw any conclusion whatsoever about "limiting the one portal of uncontrolled data entry" because there are no facts available to draw any conclusions from.

For all we know, the opposite scenario is equally likely - my Treo 650 uses non-volatile flash memory to store everything. We know for sure that the iPhone uses a pretty robust OS underneath, so it's possible that the iPhone uses a similar scheme to Palm. Which would mean that it has anywhere from 4 to 8 GB of addressable memory to use for loading web pages, playing music, playing videos, etc. This is a sizeable amount of memory, more than enough to handle typical web browsing tasks.

But again, neither of us knows this for sure. Why draw conclusions on something we don't really know?

From reading your posts on here, it's obvious that you really really dislike the iPhone, and I too am a little tired of the hype, but come on - I think you're just trying to find any and all reasons to "ROTFLMAO" at anything you can grasp at to make the iPhone appear like it sucks. Before anyone even gets a chance to try it out. Why all the vitriol? It's just a phone - it's not like it's going to run over your dog on June 29th or anything like that.

 

[surur]

This is just speculation. No one has said anything about volatile RAM separate from the flash RAM on the iPhone, whether it is present or not, and if it has it, how much is available. You cannot draw any conclusion whatsoever about "limiting the one portal of uncontrolled data entry" because there are no facts available to draw any conclusions from.

For all we know, the opposite scenario is equally likely - my Treo 650 uses non-volatile flash memory to store everything. We know for sure that the iPhone uses a pretty robust OS underneath, so it's possible that the iPhone uses a similar scheme to Palm. Which would mean that it has anywhere from 4 to 8 GB of addressable memory to use for loading web pages, playing music, playing videos, etc. This is a sizeable amount of memory, more than enough to handle typical web browsing tasks.

From the above I dont think you understand how a computer (or even a PalmOS device) works.

Surur

 

[Gee-Man]

From the above I dont think you understand how a computer (or even a PalmOS device) works.

Surur

Riiight. Obviously I hit a nerve somewhere back there.

Look dude - I'm not your enemy. I might actually be on your side, I'm certainly skeptical of how cool iPhone will be when it gets to the real world. But there's a fine line between healthy skepticism and blind hatred, and you apparently seem to think everyone who isn't in the latter camp re: iPhone should be insulted.

Sorry if you feel insulted, but the truth is, you made a pretty wild claim at the start of this thread that wasn't supported by the known facts. You then tried to use more negative speculation as proof of said wild claim. It was hard not to notice, really. Certainly enough to pull me out of my typical lurker status to post something, which I'm starting to regret now

In any case, you should look up how virtual memory and pageouts work sometime, especially in regard to modern operating systems and/or embedded systems with flash memory, such as the iPod nano. You might discover something interesting you didn't know before.

 

[braj]

In any case, you should look up how virtual memory and pageouts work sometime, especially in regard to modern operating systems and/or embedded systems with flash memory, such as the iPod nano. You might discover something interesting you didn't know before.

I think you need to do that yourself actually. I really doubt the iPhone has access to 4 to 8 GB or flash RAM like you speculate, far more likely is the 128 MB surur stated.

And surur does have a level of blind hatred against the iPhone it seems. I'm way more concerned about the effect of Microsoft on the market (not because of the product but the company). Apple's effect will get everyone to try and compete. M$'s effect is to get everyone to assimilate.

 

[Gee-Man]

I think you need to do that yourself actually. I really doubt the iPhone has access to 4 to 8 GB or flash RAM like you speculate, far more likely is the 128 MB surur stated.

I freely admit some of this is all speculation because none of us knows the actual internal memory configuration of the iPhone, but I'm not simply making up stuff about the potential for access to flash RAM. A modern OS like OS X pages in and out of storage quite seamlessly, which means that you essentially do have "virtual" access to 4 or 8 GB of storage space for things that might otherwise go beyond a basic RAM buffer that is likely present in the device. Even a fairly primitive OS like the one in the iPod nano does this on a very simple level.

I admit my post didn't go into this kind of detail, but I was rather quickly responding to Surer claiming that any data on a device like the iPhone must fit wholly into 128MB of RAM, even when there is a large amount of pageout storage available. Given a device that runs a variant of Unix, this is highly misleading.

 

[braj]

I don't know, we'll see, that would be nice but having a 1GB paging file on a 4 GB device would not make anyone happy either.