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  1. #26  
    mesplin@earthli's Avatar
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    I have to give props to Apple's marketing. They are willing to spend the advertizing bucks and are, IMO, effective. An example is the PC guy and the Mac guy ads. I would guess that they will continue to hype the iPhone.

    As has been pointed out earlier in this thread, the product has produced an awful lot of interest. From reading the related threads, it appears that many Treo users are going to try the iPhone, if only out of curiosity. There are a lot of consumers who will buy the iPhone just because it is the latest thing. Apple is very good on "eye candy".

    On the other hand, when you look at the evolution of the Mac
    computers, Apple has been addressing what for me was a big drawback, compatibility with other PC's. The problem has been addressed and solved, at least in my case, with the dual core Mac that can run both as a PC and as a Mac. I am not going to buy an iPhone (even if it was available on Sprint) because my Treo 700p serves my needs better than what I understand the iPhone would do. (The removable battery is a big issue for me as well as the keypad issue and the no card issue). But I would not be surprised to see Apple put out a later version which appeals more to the business user. At that point, unless Palm has got its act together and addressed the issues raised in this forum, I may be in the market.
  2. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    1) and 3) are pretty interesting if you consider them together and they betray the colour of the spectacles the author is wearing. Change them for another pair and you could say that: 1) iPhone is an offensive product because Apple's not in the phone market and doesn't have a position to protect, and 2) they're not late to the party because they're the market leader in the portable music player market. You pays your money and you chooses your spin.
    I think he was saying that Apple is trying to keep iPod customers from using those other makers' music phones instead of the iPod. Give them an iPod phone and they'll stay with Apple.

    As another poster was saying in another thread, he rarely saw an iPod overseas because of all those music phones.
  3. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    I have never seen in all my years people get as defensive as they do if anybody says anything negative about this phone. Some people cant seem to compute that without some of the features that we "smartphone fanatics" have grown accustomed to, the iPhone is just a glorified ipod.
    Without Exchange Direct Push, I cant get access to my corporate email. Do I need to carry two phones with me then? I also rely on IM services to communicate with clients, do I need to change the way I work because Steve Jobs doesnt think I need it.

    People, this phone is really pretty, but its clearly not for everybody.
    If they actually came out with a video iPod with that screen, I'd be in line!
  4. Thread AuthorThread Author   #29  
    Malatesta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    1) and 3) are pretty interesting if you consider them together and they betray the colour of the spectacles the author is wearing. Change them for another pair and you could say that: 1) iPhone is an offensive product because Apple's not in the phone market and doesn't have a position to protect, and 2) they're not late to the party because they're the market leader in the portable music player market. You pays your money and you chooses your spin.
    eh, that sounds like spin I mean, they do have a "portable music player market" to defend don't they since they are market leader? So this does sound defensive. If they don't react in a year or two the mobile phone biz could significantly cut into iPod sales.

    They may not have a position to protect but they are entering a saturated market. A lot of discussion in the mobile biz has been how there are too many OS's out there (Palm, WM5, Symbian, Linux, soon ALP) and the market cannot sustain even that many.

    They're also going to have negotiate with these big companies which they have little experience with and not a great reputation for (since they often like to go-it alone and not to compromise their ideals) and are going to have to fight for contracts, whereas companies like Nokia are going to try to undercut them along the way.

    I think your characterization misses those important notes and would basically say Apple has no barriers to the market, don't worry. I don't think realistically that is the case. How much those barriers will actually affect performance is anyone's guess.
  5. #30  
    Pearl_Diva's Avatar
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    Where's ALP?? I barely even see a Linux phone(too bad though). Palm OS's days are numbered.

    Mobile OS X looks way better than the Palm OS.
  6. Thread AuthorThread Author   #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Where's ALP?? I barely even see a Linux phone(too bad though). Palm OS's days are numbered.

    Mobile OS X looks way better than the Palm OS.
    ALP is coming "first half of 2007" and Orange has licensed them for their system.

    As far as linux, no you haven't seen any here in the States b/c it's real market is Asia. Here's a nice list though.
  7. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    If they actually came out with a video iPod with that screen, I'd be in line!
    I got a feeling you wont be seeing this for a while.

    It will cut into iPhone sales.


    Palm OS's days are numbered
    no it isnt. Palm the Hardware manufacture didnt but the rights to it, to not use it.

    It might be the OS for low cost smart phones, if they cant get it to work with wi-fi or 3g, but they will use it for something.

    Mobile OS X looks way better than the Palm OS
    it is pretier, but we dont know how it works. the only ppl who used it so far are JOB and Pogue, and pouge had issues (not that he isnt buying one when it comes out).
  8. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by hannip View Post
    What? An iToaster? Where can I get that! That's the best thing since sliced bread!!!
    I've always wondered.... What was the best thing BEFORE sliced bread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tastypeppers View Post
    The automotive world didn't end when the Lexus came out. The phone world won't end when the iPhone comes out. You can go on buying whatever you want and (guess what) it won't really matter. You are not your phone.
    What? I'm not? Then why do I have all these little buttons around my belly?

    Seriously, it would seem a voice of reason has no place in the discussion of the iPhone. It's obviously an emotional / religious experience. You either accept on faith that this is the most brilliant consumer device ever made (or at least the most brilliant phone ever made), or you're a "hater."

    Quote Originally Posted by specimen38
    I wonder what the motivation is for those who are so negative. Some of the posting are so
    soooo...

    Hmm, I find myself wondering why anyone who has the slightest doubt about the qualities of the phone, or who even suggests that we wait until the phone is actually available before evaluating it, is regarded as declaring war against Apple?

    Chill people. We're all entitled to our opinion, but it seems a bit premature to annoint the iPhone before anyone's actually touched one, much less used it for a week or two to see how well it really works. To answer specimen's question, though, I think any negativity you see is simply a reaction to the unbridled adoration of the Applephiles, and the mass media, all of whom swallowed Steve Job's pronouncements as if they came from Jesus / Mohammed / Budda / Brahma (pick the deity / prophet of your choice*) himself. Maybe this will be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Maybe not. Not a single one of us knows, yet.

    *Personally, I'm rather fond of Cardea, the Roman Goddess of door hinges.

    No, I'm not joking: http://www.unrv.com/culture/minor-roman-god-list.php
  9. #34  
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    Looks like palm has added another journalist to the payroll. It really reminds me of "expert witnesses" in court cases. This is just some guy....rest assured there will be more...being compensated to take the shine off the apple, so to speak.

    I do find it interesting however that every single article bashing the iPhone ends up on TreoCentral....but then we all know who butters their bread.
  10. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NextDream View Post
    Looks like palm has added another journalist to the payroll.
    Palm just makes phones. MS or Access would be a better guess of "sponsors."
  11. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlepat View Post
    Palm just makes phones. MS or Access would be a better guess of "sponsors."
    They do make phones. They also have a PR department and any number of advertising firms at their disposal.
  12. Thread AuthorThread Author   #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NextDream View Post
    Looks like palm has added another journalist to the payroll.
    Don't challenge the points in the article just attack the author's integrity...:shake:

    Quote Originally Posted by NextDream View Post
    I do find it interesting however that every single article bashing the iPhone ends up on TreoCentral....but then we all know who butters their bread.
    I don't see any restrictions on you posting any articles praising the iPhone, so go right ahead.

    It will indeed offer balance.
  13. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    eh, that sounds like spin
    It was meant to! In case it wasn't completely obvious I was just trying to point out that if you applied the logic that Lynn used in discussing iPhone and the phone market to iPhone and the music player market, and if you applied the logic he used for iPhone and the music player market to iPhone and the phone market, you got the exact opposite conclusion. I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought either extreme was a correct analysis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I mean, they do have a "portable music player market" to defend don't they since they are market leader?
    Of course. But equally couldn't you say that Nokia and other leaders in the phone biz have have positions to defend in that market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    ISo this does sound defensive. If they don't react in a year or two the mobile phone biz could significantly cut into iPod sales.
    It could, but flip it around again. Couldn't you equally argue that the latest iPod (i.e. the iPhone) has a chance of significantly cutting into Nokia, Moto, and SE's shares of the phone market (which is arguably more saturated than the music player market)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I think your characterization misses those important notes and would basically say Apple has no barriers to the market, don't worry. I don't think realistically that is the case.
    Again, what I posted previously (and what I've said above) isn't what I personally think about the barriers the iPhone faces, it's a comment on (what seems to me to be) a rather extreme analysis from Matthew Lynn.

    In the unlikely event you want my personal view, it's that the truth probably lies between the two extremes. Apple's position in the music player market probably will help the iPhone sell, but yes carrier negotiations and competition from the big phone manufacturers will probably be major hurdles. A couple of other points:

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    They may not have a position to protect but they are entering a saturated market.
    I think saturation of both the music player and phone markets can be overstated. It may be that most people that want a phone or an iPod have one already but how many of those people will have the same devices in three years time? For a variety of reasons lots of people change devices quite frequently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    A lot of discussion in the mobile biz has been how there are too many OS's out there (Palm, WM5, Symbian, Linux, soon ALP) and the market cannot sustain even that many.
    I have no idea about this. How many can it sustain? One, two, three? If we add mobile OS X (or whatever it's called) to that list we get six. Is that really much less sustainable than five?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    They're also going to have negotiate with these big companies which they have little experience with and not a great reputation for (since they often like to go-it alone and not to compromise their ideals) and are going to have to fight for contracts
    It may well not be easy and you may well be right about their go-it alone attitude. On the other hand, as best we can tell the negotiations with Cingular seem to have been concluded to both parties' satisfaction. Apple also have iPhone-related partnerships with Google and Yahoo, so perhaps go-it-alone-ism isn't completely endemic in the iPhone bit of Apple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    whereas companies like Nokia are going to try to undercut them along the way.
    Agreed. Apple will either need to convince potential buyers that the iPhone is better than cheaper offerings or they'll have to drop the price.
  14. #39  
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    Re too many OS's to support, some carriers are already rationalizing their offers, and going for the big 3 (Symbian, Linux, WM) e.g. Vodafone and DoCoMo.

    Surur
  15. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    ALP is coming "first half of 2007" and Orange has licensed them for their system.

    As far as linux, no you haven't seen any here in the States b/c it's real market is Asia. Here's a nice list though.
    Oh so the US gets shorted again? Nice. :thumbsdn:
  16. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe View Post
    I got a feeling you wont be seeing this for a while.

    It will cut into iPhone sales.
    Apple would still get their money, no matter what. Plus many were waiting for that and they don't necessarily need a phone, just the iPod.

    no it isnt. Palm the Hardware manufacture didnt but the rights to it, to not use it.

    It might be the OS for low cost smart phones, if they cant get it to work with wi-fi or 3g, but they will use it for something. Low cost smartphones with Palm OS. That's indeed what happened. While WM is on the most expensive Treo now. Shows where their mind is at.


    it is pretier, but we dont know how it works. the only ppl who used it so far are JOB and Pogue, and pouge had issues (not that he isnt buying one when it comes out). It's OS X. Enough said. Although I do need to read that thread that claims it isn't OS X.
    My thoughts above in red.
  17. #42  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe View Post
    I got a feeling you wont be seeing this for a while.

    It will cut into iPhone sales.
    I gurantee we will see one inside of 6 weeks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe View Post
    it is pretier, but we dont know how it works. the only ppl who used it so far are JOB and Pogue, and pouge had issues (not that he isnt buying one when it comes out).
    They let probably about 15-20 different reporters (maybe more) demo this phone.
  18. #43  
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    Are you an Apple insider to know that for sure? Because I'm also looking at that limited edition iPod. If a new video iPod is coming, I may hold off.

    Of course, I could get both.
  19. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    I have never seen in all my years people get as defensive as they do if anybody says anything negative about this phone. .
    c'mon my friend....have you spent any time in any of the other Treo forums ESPECIALLY before and immediately after release?

    it sounds and reads all the same, almost exactly the same.
  20. #45  
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    If they actually came out with a video iPod with that screen, I'd be in line!
    the iPhone won't be able to play back video like its ipod siblings do? that would seem nonsensical of Apple.
  21. #46  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    They may not have a position to protect but they are entering a saturated market.
    aren't pda's/blackberries a very small % of the entire celluar phone/device market? just wonderin'.
  22. #47  
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    I meant a stand-alone video iPod, like the ones they sell now.

    People were clammering for the "true" video iPod, they all may not want it attached to a phone.
  23. #48  
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I meant a stand-alone video iPod, like the ones they sell now.

    People were clammering for the "true" video iPod, they all may not want it attached to a phone.
    so you mean one that does not play music but only video on a larger screen? how much do handheld video players cost these days, that are that size? i haven't looked (outside of the kid's psp's, etc) so i don't know, i figure you might have given your want for one, that is why i ask.
  24. #49  
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    No, both. What people were wanting was the upgrade to the current video iPod. Technically the current one is a music player that also plays video. They are waiting for the true video iPod, video being a priority. As of now. it's actually secondary. All video players still play music, but the main focus is video.

    Expect to pay $400 and up as of now, for video players. Creative, Cowon and Archos all have nice ones.
  25. #50  
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    Default so....

    :shake: "simply" -- not at all... Some iPhone opposing posters have been courteous and positive. On the hand there are some have been extremely negative and exercising a lot of energy spuing hatred toward a vapor product (iPhone). That's not simple by any stretch of the imagination.

    "unbridled" -- That's a interesting word and perception.... Not at all... we're having fun talking about a new phone. There are a lot of people frustrated with their Treos.

    "a reaction" -- I disagree. Their reactions are as I think are predispositions. Reminds me of the "pro-life" people attacking the pro-choice people. :hmm:

    Not a single one of us knows, yet. So let's have some fun talking about it without trying to tell people how to think or how much enthusiams they should have!


    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    To answer specimen's question, though, I think any negativity you see is simply a reaction to the unbridled adoration of the Applephiles, and the mass media, all of whom swallowed Steve Job's pronouncements as if they came from Jesus / Mohammed / Budda / Brahma (pick the deity / prophet of your choice*) himself. Maybe this will be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Maybe not. Not a single one of us knows, yet.
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