1. iMore.com's Avatar
    While waiting on an official reaction from Apple, here's what Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and others are saying about President Trump's executive order on immigration.

    Full story from the iMore Blog...
    01-28-2017 04:22 PM
  2. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Drastic and necessary steps taken to improve safety almost always start as an inconvenience, but in the long run, the results will be beneficial.
    Slammers08, bcandiolo and aximtreo like this.
    01-28-2017 04:33 PM
  3. Quis89's Avatar
    Extreme hypocrisy in politics.

    Guns:
    Don't take all guns because most citizens are law abiding citizens who don't deserve to be punished because of the actions of a few.

    Immigration:
    Ban them all.

    Too many holes in this executive order. Main one being, the last few terror attacks on american soil have been by individuals born in America.

    But hey...whatever helps people sleep at night
    leandrodp2016 likes this.
    01-28-2017 04:34 PM
  4. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Hypocrisy is everywhere. Not just in politics. Those who say don't build a wall because it's exclusionary see nothing wrong with the wall built around their home or neighborhood. Those same people don't want border patrol agents to do their jobs but vehemently demand that security guards at the entrance of their walled neighborhood do theirs.
    aximtreo likes this.
    01-28-2017 04:47 PM
  5. Quis89's Avatar
    Hypocrisy is everywhere. Not just in politics. Those who say don't build a wall because it's exclusionary see nothing wrong with the wall built around their home or neighborhood. Those same people don't want border patrol agents to do their jobs but vehemently demand that security guards at the entrance of their walled neighborhood do theirs.
    Hypocrisy being everywhere doesn't excuse hypocrisy.

    Although I question your example considering it's an argument I've never heard. I didn't know there were people telling border security not to do their jobs.

    And typically home fences protect something from getting out such as pets and young kids. Or separate neighbors. We all know fences can simply be hopped over if someone really wants to get in. That just seems like an awkward example to me.
    01-28-2017 05:02 PM
  6. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Hypocrisy being everywhere doesn't excuse hypocrisy.
    No, it does not, and neither does it excuse the hypocrite. I was simply pointing out that it's everywhere and not just in politics.

    Although I question your example considering it's an argument I've never heard. I didn't know there were people telling border security not to do their jobs.
    See, that's just it. I was stating what I've seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears. Just because you haven't doesn't mean it didn't happen because I know that it did.

    And typically home fences protect something from getting out such as pets and young kids. Or separate neighbors. We all know fences can simply be hopped over if someone really wants to get in. That just seems like an awkward example to me.
    I didn't mention "home fences". I mentioned "walls" around homes and neighborhoods. You know exactly what I'm talking about....Walls that are meant to keep the uninvited out....
    01-28-2017 05:14 PM
  7. Quis89's Avatar
    No, it does not, and neither does it excuse the hypocrite. I was simply pointing out that it's everywhere and not just in politics.

    See, that's just it. I was stating what I've seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears. Just because you haven't doesn't mean it didn't happen because I know that it did.


    I didn't mention "home fences". I mentioned "walls" around homes and neighborhoods. You know exactly what I'm talking about....Walls that are meant to keep the uninvited out....
    Not saying it didn't happen. It's just ridiculous for anyone to say border patrol SHOULDNT patrol the border. That makes zero sense.

    Eh, if your wall comparison makes sense to you then so be it. I'd argue the immediate threat of a potential burglary is far greater than whatever this border wall is going to prevent for the majority of Americans.

    The wall? It's a false security blanket that will do no immediate good for the majority of Americans. I personally have no feelings for or against the wall. But if it makes people feel safe then so be it. I just have no desire for it to be a tax payer funded project. We have far greater issues that we should be allocating funding to.

    Either way, this thread isn't about the silly wall but rather about the silly executive order. Which is yet another false security blanket that isn't protecting Americans from the real threats to our every day lives.
    01-28-2017 05:27 PM
  8. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    Extreme hypocrisy in politics.

    Guns:
    Don't take all guns because most citizens are law abiding citizens who don't deserve to be punished because of the actions of a few.

    Immigration:
    Ban them all.

    Too many holes in this executive order. Main one being, the last few terror attacks on american soil have been by individuals born in America.

    But hey...whatever helps people sleep at night
    No one has said "Ban Them All". SMH
    01-28-2017 05:30 PM
  9. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Not saying it didn't happen. It's just ridiculous for anyone to say border patrol SHOULDNT patrol the border. That makes zero sense.
    Border Patrol agents do more than merely patrolling the border. They locate and arrest people who attempt to get into this country "illegally" as well as welcome those who are entering legally. Numerous agents have been murdered in the process. Yet, some people fail to understand that the murders could extend well inside the border if it's not dealt with at the border level.
    Eh, if your wall comparison makes sense to you then so be it.
    It makes sense to the both of us, and you know it.
    I'd argue the immediate threat of a potential burglary is far greater than whatever this border wall is going to prevent for the majority of Americans.
    That may be, but you're missing the point. People put up walls to keep out the uninvited who would otherwise come on that property and cause harm.
    The wall? It's a false security blanket that will do no immediate good for the majority of Americans.
    Then why throughout all of history have walls been built to help keep safe those who are behind them? Why build a wall around your neighborhood?
    I personally have no feelings for or against the wall. But if it makes people feel safe then so be it. I just have no desire for it to be a tax payer funded project.
    Do you have the desire to pay for healthcare for you and your family while those who are here illegally do not?
    We have far greater issues that we should be allocating funding to.
    The primary goal of government is to protect it citizens and if that includes building a wall around its borders, so be it.

    Either way, this thread isn't about the silly wall but rather about the silly executive order. Which is yet another false security blanket that isn't protecting Americans from the real threats to our every day lives.
    Of course, you're speaking your opinion and without the intel that the President possesses...
    Slammers08 likes this.
    01-28-2017 06:42 PM
  10. Quis89's Avatar
    Border Patrol agents do more than merely patrolling the border. They locate and arrest people who attempt to get into this country "illegally" as well as welcome those who are entering legally. Numerous agents have been murdered in the process. Yet, some people fail to understand that the murders could extend well inside the border if it's not dealt with at the border level.
    I don't think people fail to realize that. Murders happen across the country daily. Anything that can be done to prevent that is understandable. Like I said, I'm not for or against this wall. I just don't want it coming out of my tax dollars. In fact, this entire discussion spiraled out of control and I never intended to even discuss the wall, lol. But since you brought it up....

    It makes sense to the both of us, and you know it.
    It literally doesn't. You're senselessly comparing a border wall that costs billions to homes and neighborhoods. The implications are completely different. If I'm putting up a wall around my home for security it is because I'm worried that anyone who comes across that wall is here to do harm. If you're implying that any Mexican that comes across the wall is here to cause harm then that is insanely ignorant on your part not to mention offensive and incredibly false. I don't want to put words in your mouth so you can explain what exactly you're implying here or what is being protected.

    The majority of these individuals are here for opportunity unavailable in their country. Let's not disguise this. This wall isn't to protect the American people from harm. I'm more likely to be killed and harmed by an American citizen than any foreign born Muslim or Mexican. That is a fact backed up by statistical data. We are literally spending billions to avoid something with a .00000001% likelihood.

    Source:
    Study: 0.00000001% Chance of Being Killed by Illegal Immigrant Terrorist

    That may be, but you're missing the point. People put up walls to keep out the uninvited who would otherwise come on that property and cause harm.
    Ok.

    Then why throughout all of history have walls been built to help keep safe those who are behind them? Why build a wall around your neighborhood?
    Why do you feel so unsafe? I've never felt unsafe because of Mexico. I've seen more murders because of American citizens than I have due to Mexicans. What are YOU being protected from that justifies a wall? There is zero factual evidence that says illegal immigrants commit anymore crime than legal citizens. So where is this FUD coming from?

    Secondly, you're comparing America to nations with a completely different geographic layout. Wars were fought in other countries for land and power. You live in America, dude. This isn't 13th century Greece. We have no neighboring civilizations plotting a takeover of our country. Walls served a far greater and severe purpose in past time periods for past civilizations. If this was Mycenaean Greece I'd be on your side about this whole wall argument. But it's not...and you can't compare those times to today.

    And my neighborhood doesn't have a wall. You'd have to ask that question to someone who lives in a gated community. I don't, and I don't feel any less safe. But that's just me. I can't speak for everyone else.

    Do you have the desire to pay for healthcare for you and your family while those who are here illegally do not?
    First and foremost, the most recent data has illegal immigrants paying over $10 billion in state and federal taxes. So let's not imply that they are living here free of charge and not contributing. In fact, illegal immigrants contributions far outweigh their impacts on society. Many resist healthcare treatment out of fear of deportation. You should really do some research from the other side. You might fight yourself surprised.

    Sources:
    How much do undocumented immigrants pay in taxes? | PunditFact
    Study: 'Undocumented' Immigrants Pay Billions in Taxes | US News

    Secondly, there are people here legally who don't pay for healthcare yet still partake in the healthcare system. This isn't me saying that people here illegally should be allowed the same things we are allowed. But you being born here doesn't grant you anything other than privilege. Don't take that privilege for granted. You're only here because others forced themselves here. Your freedoms were acquired through the blood of others. So we should always be mindful before we complain about people who simply want the same freedoms we've been given. That said, everyone should go through the proper channels to be here. A conversation should be had to expand immigration. Our country is great because of the diversity. We should be working to expand that. Not limit it.



    The primary goal of government is to protect it citizens and if that includes building a wall around its borders, so be it.
    I believe this was Obama's thought as he attempted to provide universal healthcare. I'm sure you'll agree that the government doesn't always protect ALL it's citizens in it's attempts to protect ALL it's citizens.


    Of course, you're speaking your opinion and without the intel that the President possesses...
    Man you're very trusting of this man. I've got to give you credit for that.
    01-28-2017 09:46 PM
  11. Quis89's Avatar
    No one has said "Ban Them All". SMH
    Correction, Trump has not said "ban them all".

    But others certainly have.
    Video captures man telling Muslim women he doesn't want them in his country | abc7ny.com

    As I was told...
    I was stating what I've seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears. Just because you haven't doesn't mean it didn't happen because I know that it did.
    01-28-2017 09:52 PM
  12. Ledsteplin's Avatar
    Correction, Trump has not said "ban them all".

    But others certainly have.
    Video captures man telling Muslim women he doesn't want them in his country | abc7ny.com

    As I was told...
    So you refer to some Joe on the street saying things? People in general say all kinda of things. People on the left say things I find abhorrent. So what? And there is no intent to permanently ban anyone from coming to the US. But that's how you want it to sound. I'm all for the TEMPORARY ban on Muslims from certain countries until they can implement the needed vetting procedures. Especially after seeing all the Refugee problems in Europe. And the President has every right to impose a temporary ban. It's in Section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952. My overall view on immigration is in line with the President's view. Everyone is welcome to immigrate to the US as long as it's done LEGALLY, and poses no threat or harm to our citizens. That makes perfect sense to me.
    Just_Me_D and aximtreo like this.
    01-29-2017 05:50 AM
  13. SprSynJn's Avatar
    I'm still confused as to why people keep saying illegal immigrants are paying taxes when they're getting paid under the table the majority of the time. I've seen it happen in many jobs I had as a youth. Hell, even international students were getting paid under the table so the employer didn't have to report it. I, on the other hand, had to report my wages and get taxed for them. Sounds fair to me.
    01-29-2017 08:33 AM
  14. Quis89's Avatar
    So you refer to some Joe on the street saying things? People in general say all kinda of things. People on the left say things I find abhorrent. So what? And there is no intent to permanently ban anyone from coming to the US. But that's how you want it to sound. I'm all for the TEMPORARY ban on Muslims from certain countries until they can implement the needed vetting procedures. Especially after seeing all the Refugee problems in Europe. And the President has every right to impose a temporary ban. It's in Section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952. My overall view on immigration is in line with the President's view. Everyone is welcome to immigrate to the US as long as it's done LEGALLY, and poses no threat or harm to our citizens. That makes perfect sense to me.
    Some joe on the street? I won't point out how hilarious that sounds considering the conversations I've engaged with you all over the past few weeks. These random joes make up thousands of people on the left and right. Their opinions shouldn't be listened to why?

    Does it make sense to you that countries like Afghanistan, Saudia Arabia and Egypt didn't make his list despite the fact that more Americans have been killed on our soil by individuals from those countries than any other country on the list? Despite the fact that several of the most recent terrorist attacks took place by individuals from Afghanistan and who had traveled there? 9/11 anyone? Trump holds no business interests in the places on his proposed ban but he holds multi million dollar interests in these places that didn't make the list yet have far stronger links to terrorism.

    Don't let this man blind you. This proposed ban does nothing for your safety. It already took years for Syrian refugees to be processed.

    Just as D said, I was making opinions lacking the intel the president possessed. Don't you all believe you're doing the same in your assumptions that our country wasn't previously safe prior to this? There have been terror attacks that were stopped due to the great work of our government.

    I agree with your everyone is welcome to immigrate legally statement.
    Last edited by Quis89; 01-29-2017 at 09:37 AM.
    01-29-2017 09:07 AM
  15. Quis89's Avatar
    I'm still confused as to why people keep saying illegal immigrants are paying taxes when they're getting paid under the table the majority of the time. I've seen it happen in many jobs I had as a youth. Hell, even international students were getting paid under the table so the employer didn't have to report it. I, on the other hand, had to report my wages and get taxed for them. Sounds fair to me.
    Did you read the links? It's quite obvious. They shop at the same stores you do.

    Again, I'm not defending them being here illegally. But the misconception that they don't contribute is false.
    01-29-2017 09:08 AM
  16. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    I don't think people fail to realize that. Murders happen across the country daily. Anything that can be done to prevent that is understandable.
    Then you should understand that since murders happen daily somewhere in this country, we don't need "specific outsiders who are hell bent on causing carnage inside our borders" to cross into this country. We should make it as difficult as possible for them to do so. I AM NOT referring to people who want to come to this country and assimilate.

    You're senselessly comparing a border wall that costs billions to homes and neighborhoods. The implications are completely different. If I'm putting up a wall around my home for security it is because I'm worried that anyone who comes across that wall is here to do harm.
    Then the implications are the same and you've proven my point. The primary purpose of a wall around one's home, neighborhood or borders is to be separate and to keep out the uninvited.
    If you're implying that any Mexican that comes across the wall is here to cause harm then that is insanely ignorant on your part not to mention offensive and incredibly false. I don't want to put words in your mouth so you can explain what exactly you're implying here or what is being protected.
    I'm not worried about "Mexicans". I'm worried about the "Islamic terrorists" who are dead set on entering this country to cause carnage, specifically those who try to infiltrate our borders via Mexico.

    This wall isn't to protect the American people from harm. I'm more likely to be killed and harmed by an American citizen than any foreign born Muslim or Mexican. That is a fact backed up by statistical data. We are literally spending billions to avoid something with a .00000001% likelihood.
    C'mon man. Just stop. Whenever mass carnage occurs within our borders, people ask how could it have been prevented? A breakdown in communication, unsubstantiated intel or weak links in our border security are often front and center. Far too many people want to keep coming up with the "perfect solution" when there isn't any. There are only practical solutions, and when those practical solutions are offered, the people with little to no security experience and are so politically correct in their thinking, oppose the solutions in lieu of what they consider to be a "better solution" of which they rarely, if ever, offer. In their minds, there has got to be something better, but in the meantime, we sit and continue to be vulnerable.

    Why do you feel so unsafe? ...What are YOU being protected from that justifies a wall?
    First, I'm going to disregard your Mexico comments because I've made it perfectly clear that I'm not concerned with "Mexicans". Now to answer the question, there are more people than you care to recognize that are, as stated above, dead set on causing carnage within our borders. These aren't gang bangers and drug facilitators doing things to competitors. These are people who couldn't care less about ones color, income, political preference, etc.

    First and foremost, the most recent data has illegal immigrants paying over $10 billion in state and federal taxes. So let's not imply that they are living here free of charge and not contributing.
    Not once have I stated that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, are living free of charge and not contributing, and you know it. I posed a specific question in response to YOUR statement about not having a desire for the wall to be a taxpayer funded project. Us taxpayers are funding the medical expenses of a good deal of illegal immigrants.
    In fact, illegal immigrants contributions far outweigh their impacts on society. Many resist healthcare treatment out of fear of deportation. You should really do some research from the other side. You might fight yourself surprised.
    Why are you fixated on "Mexicans". The wall is an attempt to keep people from infiltrating our borders illegally. Our primary concern is terrorist-related. I can't get any clearer than that! For Mexicans, or anyone else wanting to get into this country "legally", I say go for it and welcome to America! Where in that statement am I, or any other person with the same concerns as me, being unreasonable or anti-immigrant?

    That said, everyone should go through the proper channels to be here.
    Wow!
    Our country is great because of the diversity. We should be working to expand that. Not limit it.
    Hard work, an entrepreneural mindset, sacrifice, strong leadership, strong military and a belief that GOD reigns supreme is what has made this country great. Getting away from those things have been reasons for our decline.
    01-29-2017 10:46 AM
  17. Quis89's Avatar
    Then you should understand that since murders happen daily somewhere in this country, we don't need "specific outsiders who are hell bent on causing carnage inside our borders" to cross into this country. We should make it as difficult as possible for them to do so. I AM NOT referring to people who want to come to this country and assimilate.

    Then the implications are the same and you've proven my point. The primary purpose of a wall around one's home, neighborhood or borders is to be separate and to keep out the uninvited. I'm not worried about "Mexicans". I'm worried about the "Islamic terrorists" who are dead set on entering this country to cause carnage, specifically those who try to infiltrate our borders via Mexico.

    C'mon man. Just stop. Whenever mass carnage occurs within our borders, people ask how could it have been prevented. A breakdown in communication, unsubstantiated intel or weak links in our border security are often front and center. Far too many people want to keep coming up with the "perfect solution" when there isn't any. There are only practical solutions, and when those practical solutions are offered, the people with little to no security experience and are so politically correct in their thinking, oppose the solutions in lieu of what they consider to be a "better solution" of which they rarely, if ever, offer. In their minds, there has got to be something better, but in the meantime, we sit and continue to be vulnerable.

    First, I'm going to disregard your Mexico comments because I've made it perfectly clear that I'm not concerned with "Mexicans". Now to answer the question, there are more people than you care to recognize that are, as stated above, dead set on causing carnage within our borders. These aren't gang bangers and drug facilitators doing things to competitors. These are people who couldn't care less about ones color, income, political preference, etc.

    Not once have I stated that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, are living free of charge and not contributing, and you know it. I posed a specific question in response to YOUR statement about not having a desire for the wall to be a taxpayer funded project. Us taxpayers are funding the medical expenses of a good deal of illegal immigrants. Why are you fixated on "Mexicans". The wall is an attempt to keep people from infiltrating our borders illegally. Our primary concern is terrorist-related. I can't get any clearer than that! For Mexicans, or anyone else wanting to get into this country "legally", I say go for it and welcome to America! Where in that statement am I, or any other person with the same concerns as me, being unreasonable or anti-immigrant?

    Wow!
    Hard work, an entrepreneural mindset, sacrifice, strong leadership, strong military and a belief that GOD reigns supreme is what has made this country great. Getting away from those things have been reasons for our decline.
    Islamic terrorists infiltrating our country through Mexico??? Ok dude. Out of curiosity, do you have evidence that this has happened on a large scale? Or even a small scale? An example of a terrorist attack that could have been prevented with this wall?

    https://m.thetrumpet.com/articles/13022,19

    Sure, your fears may be founded on small evidence. But our border patrol, whom you say people don't want to do their jobs, are doing their jobs and have successfully apprehended individuals.


    I'm fixated on Mexicans because your president referenced them in defending this wall. Remember his "Mexico isn't sending their best" comments? Quit pretending this is about Islamic terrorism. Trump has made no mention of that in discussing this wall. And if it is about Islamic terrorism, I've previously made mention of why I feel Trumps measures aren't comprehensive enough as he also appears to be protecting his business interests.

    This all sounds like fear mongering to me.

    All that said, we can agree to disagree.

    If this all makes you feel safer then so be it. Everyone deserves to feel safe. Even if the means by which that safety is felt offer little real world benefit.
    01-29-2017 11:06 AM
  18. Just_Me_D's Avatar
    Islamic terrorists infiltrating our country through Mexico??? Ok dude. Out of curiosity, do you have evidence that this has happened on a large scale? Or even a small scale? An example of a terrorist attack that could have been prevented with this wall?

    https://m.thetrumpet.com/articles/13022,19

    Sure, your fears may be founded on small evidence. But our border patrol, whom you say people don't want to do their jobs, are doing their jobs and have successfully apprehended individuals.


    I'm fixated on Mexicans because your president referenced them in defending this wall. Remember his "Mexico isn't sending their best" comments? Quit pretending this is about Islamic terrorism. Trump has made no mention of that in discussing this wall. And if it is about Islamic terrorism, I've previously made mention of why I feel Trumps measures aren't comprehensive enough as he also appears to be protecting his business interests.

    This all sounds like fear mongering to me.

    All that said, we can agree to disagree.

    If this all makes you feel safer then so be it. Everyone deserves to feel safe. Even if the means by which that safety is felt offer little real world benefit.
    (Laughing) Enjoy the rest of your Sunday, my friend...
    01-29-2017 11:08 AM
  19. italodance's Avatar
    As an Iranian i still like him much, he is the rightful president of the USA i have ever seen in my life, He is one of the rarest elected/nominated presidents who followed his motto after entering into the white house, I believe he makes America great again with focusing on lost people and their voices.

    One lesson to you all, Never trust to medias specially News TV channels, Here in my country it's the same, The people never watch TV nonsense and NEVER believe the people who attend to walk in the streets for showing their demands. Do you think the people fire your country flag are truly Iranian people?
    Ledsteplin likes this.
    02-06-2017 11:56 AM

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