Apple will not stand anymore in Front of Android / samsung

[JeffDenver]

To those of you arguing about who did it first, you're all wrong. LG made the first smartphone in a similar style to the iPhone, the LG Prada

I am actually not arguing about exactly who did it first. I am arguing Apple did NOT do it first. I can't think of a single design or UI feature that Apple actually did first.

And their hypocrisy is what really annoys me, not the fact that they copied. I don't blame them for copying. I blame them for suing everyone and his dog over things they did not actually do first anyway.

 

[JeffDenver]

Samsung is big because prior to the galaxy S, there wasn't a high end Android phone that rivaled the iPhone in any fashion.

LOL, wrong.

The Droid 1 had a display with well over twice the resolution (854x480) of the best iPhone (480x320), and sold very well. The display was not only larger but had a higher PPI as well (265vs 163). The Nexus 1 was comparable and even better in some ways (mostly because it had more RAM). Google at the crossroads: a review of the Nexus One | Ars Technica

These are comparison photos made by Tech Crunch:



The Droid 1's camera was 5MP with dual flash and had an awesome macro mode for it's time (you can see additional detail even in those photos)...the 3GS had a 3.2MP camera with no flash. The 3GS had a slightly better GPU, and gave the illusion of performing faster in some benchmarks because it was moving less than 1/2 as many pixels due to it's much lower res display. The Droid 1 also had a hardware keyboard, SD expansion, and an upgradable battery.

What the iPhone had at that time that made it stand out was a faster and smoother UI (because, well, it was doing less), and Android never caught up to that till around the time the Nexus 4 was released, after Jellybean.

At the time, the iPhone was only available on one carrier in the US and a few select carriers worldwide.

...by their own choice.

They only dealt with the upper echelon of carriers.

No they didn't...just the opposite. They were not on Verizon, and Verizon was the top carrier even back then. They were on AT&T's crappy network. AT&T was even worse back then than they are now. Even Apple people complained about it.

 

[Just_Me_D]

Oh of course I would. In fact, I'd have done it a lot sooner. It's not like this is new...Apple users have been asking for Widgets since forever.

But...

1) Apple has filed MANY high profile lawsuits complaining about copying.

Weren't those lawsuits in regard to "patents"?

2) Apple (and it's users) have been critical of these features in the past. They said widgets are pointless and battery wasting. They said the same thing about live wallpaper (introduced in iOS7). They basically said that all these features are things they didn't want anyway, which is why they didn't care that Android had them.

C'mon, did some of the iOS users said that? I'm sure some of them did, but not ALL of us and you make it seem as if we are all guilty. As for Apple, heres a short video of Jobs talking about widgets. You decide. Steve Jobs on Widgets - YouTube

So my point is that Apple is being a little hypocritical here.

That's debatable

It's both.

I don't have a problem with Apple "stealing"....I never considered this sort of thing stealing to begin with.

I understand, but you did type "So Apple has basically removed any pretense they might have had about stealing." Did you not?

But they are being hypocrites.

Okay

It is like a thief complaining he is being robbed.

(laughing)

This is clear evidence that Apple lawsuits were not about preventing theft (since Apple clearly has no problem with theft) but with depleting their competition instead.

There's a difference between "depleting" competition and keeping them in check by protecting your brand and everything associated with it.

They were competing in the courtroom instead of the market.

Believe it or not, courtroom battles are necessary to keep the marketplace competitive and fair.

 

[JeffDenver]

2) Apple (and it's users) have been critical of these features in the past. They said widgets are pointless and battery wasting. They said the same thing about live wallpaper (introduced in iOS7). They basically said that all these features are things they didn't want anyway, which is why they didn't care that Android had them.

C'mon, did some of the iOS users said that? I'm sure some of them did, but not ALL of us and you make it seem as if we are all guilty.

I would say "most" is accurate. This was an extremely common response to Android features. Apple users dismissed them as irrelevant and battery wasting. I remember this being said about widgets especially.

So my point is that Apple is being a little hypocritical here.

That's debatable

It's not debatable at all IMO. They clearly complained about other people copying features, and they have clearly copied features in iOS8. ARS Technica just did an entire article on it.

Great artists steal: The iOS 8 features inspired by Android

Apple has taken the wraps off iOS 8, its newest mobile operating system, at its WWDC keynote. There were lots of new features added to iOS, but any observer familiar with Android saw quite a few things that seem... familiar. That's because many of Apple's announced upgrades were things the Android OS has boasted for years.

Great artists steal: The iOS 8 features inspired by Android | Ars Technica

I'm not the only one saying this. If Apple was not copying before (IMO they were), they definitely are now. And even non-nerds can see it.

There's a difference between "depleting" competition and keeping them in check by protecting your brand and everything associated with it.

Their "brand" is made of of elements they did not invent anyway. They did the exact same thing they accuse everyone else of doing.

They exploited the court system to deplete their competition because they could not compete on their own with their actual product.

 

[Just_Me_D]

I would say "most" is accurate. This was an extremely common response to Android features. Apple users dismissed them as irrelevant and battery wasting. I remember this being said about widgets especially.



It's not debatable at all IMO. They clearly complained about other people copying features, and they have clearly copied features in iOS8. ARS Technica just did an entire article on it.



I'm not the only one saying this. If Apple was not copying before (IMO they were), they definitely are now. And even non-nerds can see it.


Their "brand" is made of of elements they did not invent anyway. They did the exact same thing they accuse everyone else of doing.

They exploited the court system to deplete their competition because they could not compete on their own with their actual product.

Okay, now that it has been decided that Apple copies from its competitors, now what? Do we ban them from selling their products for life like the NBA banned Donald Sterling? When Samsung, HTC, Motorola, LG and the others introduce their newest devices, and each contain a CPU, battery, display, card slot, etcetera, that are common features of a smartphone, will Samsung be singled out for making a better copy of those common features than the others? Who's really innovating these days? All of this is NOT worth getting all worked up over...

 

[JeffDenver]

Okay, now that it has been decided that Apple copies from its competitors, now what?

Now iFans can finally shut up about copying, thats what. heh heh

I have no interest in punishing Apple for it. I don't care if they make money or if people like their products. I was just sick of the self-righteous hypocrisy Apple people have displayed for years. Now when Samsung or Google "copies" something that vaguely resembles something on the iPhones, Apple and it's users won't be able to complain anymore. We'll always have iOS8 to point to.

Do we ban them from selling their products for life like the NBA banned Donald Sterling?

We can ban them for suing the entire world over stuff they obviously did not invent. That era is probably over now thanks to iOS8.

Who's really innovating these days?

Apparently someone other than Apple. I can't think of a single thing they have introduced that is really innovative. Mostly they take other people's ideas and polish them.

Which is not a bad thing. But when they clutch these things to their bosom and scream "No! Mine!" at everyone else and then sue anyone else who uses the same idea, it becomes a problem.

 

[Just_Me_D]

Now iFans can finally shut up about copying, thats what. heh heh

I have no interest in punishing Apple for it. I don't care if they make money or if people like their products. I was just sick of the self-righteous hypocrisy Apple people have displayed for years. Now when Samsung or Google "copies" something that vaguely resembles something on the iPhones, Apple and it's users won't be able to complain anymore. We'll always have iOS8 to point to.


We can ban them for suing the entire world over stuff they obviously did not invent. That era is probably over now thanks to iOS8.


Apparently someone other than Apple. I can't think of a single thing they have introduced that is really innovative. Mostly they take other people's ideas and polish them.

Which is not a bad thing. But when they clutch these things to their bosom and scream "No! Mine!" at everyone else and then sue anyone else who uses the same idea, it becomes a problem.

Understood, and thanks for the chat........Take care, and enjoy the rest of your day, sir.

 

[z33dev33l]

LOL, wrong.

The Droid 1 had a display with well over twice the resolution (854x480) of the best iPhone (480x320), and sold very well. The display was not only larger but had a higher PPI as well (265vs 163). The Nexus 1 was comparable and even better in some ways (mostly because it had more RAM). Google at the crossroads: a review of the Nexus One | Ars Technica

These are comparison photos made by Tech Crunch:
View attachment 57970
View attachment 57971

The Droid 1's camera was 5MP with dual flash and had an awesome macro mode for it's time (you can see additional detail even in those photos)...the 3GS had a 3.2MP camera with no flash. The 3GS had a slightly better GPU, and gave the illusion of performing faster in some benchmarks because it was moving less than 1/2 as many pixels due to it's much lower res display. The Droid 1 also had a hardware keyboard, SD expansion, and an upgradable battery.

What the iPhone had at that time that made it stand out was a faster and smoother UI (because, well, it was doing less), and Android never caught up to that till around the time the Nexus 4 was released, after Jellybean.


...by their own choice.


No they didn't...just the opposite. They were not on Verizon, and Verizon was the top carrier even back then. They were on AT&T's crappy network. AT&T was even worse back then than they are now. Even Apple people complained about it.

Did you have the original droid? It did not feel like a quality device. a better camera and better specs does not make for a quality device so much as build quality and general preference. There was nothing that seemed high end in Android's corner prior to the galaxy series. (Or was the HTC Evo out on it's one carrier first? I don't remember) The Nexus One had nice specs and was a great phone for the time but it was ugly, hard to get used to and not easy to get ahold of.

 

[JeffDenver]

Did you have the original droid?

Yep. And used it the full length of my contract.

It did not feel like a quality device.

If you mean the case, I agree. Although the case was very durable, it was not as appealing as the iPhone's. Neither was the UI. The high frame rate of the iPhone UI might have come at the cost of functionality, but no one could deny it also made it look a lot more slick.

a better camera and better specs does not make for a quality device

Some of us are not buying phones as status symbols or jewelry. We're buying them as tools.

There was nothing that seemed high end in Android's corner prior to the galaxy series.

Everything was high end. You seem to equate a pretty case and fast UI with "high end". The Droid 1 actually did more, and often better. The hardware specs were only part of it...Android at that time had widgets, much better notifications, and real multitasking. It took iOS years to catch up on that (and some would argue it still has not caught up, even with iOS8).

The Nexus One had nice specs and was a great phone for the time but it was ugly, hard to get used to and not easy to get ahold of.

Except for the hardware keyboard, the Nexus did everything as well or better than the Droid 1. Which means it was even further ahead of the iPhone in most areas.

 

[z33dev33l]

Yep. And used it the full length of my contract.


If you mean the case, I agree. Although the case was very durable, it was not as appealing as the iPhone's. Neither was the UI. The high frame rate of the iPhone UI might have come at the cost of functionality, but no one could deny it also made it look a lot more slick.


Some of us are not buying phones as status symbols or jewelry. We;re buying them as tools.


Everything was high end. You seem to equate a pretty case and fast UI with "high end". The Droid 1 actually did more, and often better. The hardware specs were only part of it...Android at that time had widgets, much better notifications, and real multitasking. It took iOS years to catch up on that (and some would argue it still has not caught up, even with iOS8).


Except for the hardware keyboard, the Nexus did everything as well or better than the Droid 1. Which means it was even further ahead of the iPhone in most areas.

It definitely did more, I will not argue that. IT certainly didn't do it better. Android was a mess back then, often requiring several battery pulls very often, freezing up on a webpage because it had too much text (I had three different Droids before I accepted that it wasn't user error) everything constantly force closing. It always cracked me up when Android would tell me that Android had crashed. Apple kept it simple because at the time, that's what was realistic with hardware restrictions. Anything else and it may be as poorly pieced together as early Android. I feel that's why they've progressively improved in such a manner. They're introducing the features as the hardware allows it without sacrificing quality. For the record though, I loved my Nexus One. I did. That thing was all different kinds of hideous though. Apple made a device that felt premium and was reliable. At the time, there was nothing else like it. Android didn't even have any interest in a GPU accelerated UI prior to the Galaxy S series.

 

[JeffDenver]

It definitely did more, I will not argue that. IT certainly didn't do it better.

According to who? It certainly did multitasking better. It certainly did notifications better. It certainly produced better photos. It certainly did widgets better. There were a lot of things it did better.

Android was a mess back then

Yeah thats the irony...it was a mess and it still did a lot of things better than iOS.

freezing up on a webpage because it had too much text (I had three different Droids before I accepted that it wasn't user error)

iOS did the same thing. The only difference was how it approached it. iOS would not display the entire page until it had loaded...Android would display it as it loaded. iOS would not allow system resources to anything else while scrolling (including loading the page)...Android could multi-task, and so could load the page while you scrolled or did other stuff.

My droid did not "often" require battery pulls at all. In fact, the only time I ever did battery pulls was when I was messing with it in a way that was not intended (like rooting it or something). Using normal apps and stock-everything, I almost never did battery pulls.

everything constantly force closing.

iOS apps crashed more than Android apps actually. The difference is that Android was designed by nerds who want to know when something crashes...when apps crashed on iOS, iOS would simply launch them again without comment.

Forbes article on ios/Android crash rates as of 2012 - Do iOS Apps Crash More Than Android Apps? A Data Dive - Forbes

But for the record, I prefer iOS's solution and wish Android had adopted it.

It always cracked me up when Android would tell me that Android had crashed. Apple kept it simple because at the time, that's what was realistic with hardware restrictions. Anything else and it may be as poorly pieced together as early Android. I feel that's why they've progressively improved in such a manner. They're introducing the features as the hardware allows it without sacrificing quality.

There is nothing at all low-quality about the Nexus 5, and it annihilates the iPhone 5s. And does so at half the price.

 

[z33dev33l]

According to who? It certainly did multitasking better. It certainly did notifications better. It certainly produced better photos. It certainly did widgets better. There were a lot of things it did better.


Yeah thats the irony...it was a mess and it still did a lot of things better than iOS.


iOS did the same thing. The only difference was how it approached it. iOS would not display the entire page until it had loaded...Android would display it as it loaded. iOS would not allow system resources to anything else while scrolling (including loading the page)...Android could multi-task, and so could load the page while you scrolled or did other stuff.

My droid did not "often" require battery pulls at all. In fact, the only time I ever did battery pulls was when I was messing with it in a way that was not intended (like rooting it or something). Using normal apps and stock-everything, I almost never did battery pulls.


iOS apps crashed more than Android apps actually. The difference is that Android was designed by nerds who want to know when something crashes...when apps crashed on iOS, iOS would simply launch them again without comment.

Forbes article on ios/Android crash rates as of 2012 - Do iOS Apps Crash More Than Android Apps? A Data Dive - Forbes

But for the record, I prefer iOS's solution and wish Android had adopted it.


There is nothing at all low-quality about the Nexus 5, and it annihilates the iPhone 5s. And does so at half the price.

I'd argue that in terms of quality the 5s runs circles around almost everything on the market. That said, I like the nexus 5. I love that other OEMs are following suit with Nokia and using high quality polycarbonates in their phones instead of too much glass like older LG models, cheap plastic like Samsung or metal like HTC. I wish I could find a thread that I posted some years back where my HD7 got so hot (I live in Texas, roughly 110 degrees) that the metal expanded and the screen just fell out.

I think I will buy back into Android with the new Moto X+1 or whatever they end up calling it because I think Motorola makes Android's highest end devices and I do want to like the OS. I'm just not convinced I could use it as a daily driver as of yet.

That video though, just shows me that the animations are longer on iOS. Most of the apps, especially the imaging ones, loaded much quicker.

The 5S is a pretty amazing device. It really is. Screw the stupid fingerprint scanner gimmick, it's everything else on it that makes it a force that I consider despite my issue with static rows of icons.

I had several droids and even with moderate gaming I had to do frequent battery pulls. It did things that iOS didn't, as you mentioned, iOS didn't do a lot of those things but iOS did them better. I never had to worry about iOS apps crashing that were part of the OS. The dialer app would rash incessantly as would the OS itself... That splash screen got dull quick.

 

[FFR]

What a difference six months makes.

The op couldn't be more wrong.


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[HankAZ]

Yes without bias to Apple, samsung is taking over, the game ended and samsung is the winner.

So, how?s that prediction working out for you there?

 

[FFR]

So, how?s that prediction working out for you there?

Haha ha your funny.


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[the_tech_eater]

This thread...


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[the_tech_eater]

@jeffdenver, I find it interesting that your only iMore posts are in this thread... You could get more respect if you were to contribute.


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[sting7k]

Don't feed the trolls please. Why even dig this up?

 

[the_tech_eater]

Don't feed the trolls please. Why even dig this up?

Heck! I just realized this is an old thread lol! I agree, it shouldn't have been dug up. I saw it in my unread list and thought it was new.


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[seawhale]

Any new opinions?

The op is still alive and following the thread.