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  1. Thread AuthorThread Author   #1  
    Richard Nieves's Avatar
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    Default Walled garden hatred..?

    So I was reading an article on windows 8 in the verge and in the comments a very heated battle about "walled gardens" (basically is only allowing apps through one App Store). Many people's referenced ios of course. I am still fairly new to the iPhone but have had ios devices before. Android has the ability to add apps outside of a market yet all I noticed from doing that was people could get free apps (I was a developer so I was Not about to do that to fellow dev's, but I did do it to try apps I wanted to buy and if I liked them, I bought them) however I know not many people think the same way. I also find that nothing I ever really needed wasn't in the store and if something wasn't, then I couldn't find it outside the store either. In windows case, I understand frustration but at the same time the average person likes to find things easier, and more importantly, find things that work and aren't virus infested. I am ALL for virus free and stable software. It's one of the reasons I like apple over android. I do like freedom, but not at the expense of stability and the irony to me, is that there are more polished apps on ios than android, INCLUDING apps not in the market. I love not having to search the Internet for apps I want then hope they are ok. The walled garden thing helps us all. Is apple too restrictive? Yes, not because they are strict on interface or coding but content. Apple has turned down apps for being in appropriate, sometimes just from simple things. It's not apples job to do that they just need parental/age verifications. No I would never want my kids to have access to bad content, but there are ways to prevent that. However, other than that, a walled garden isn't a huge big deal. Most physical products go through certification, this is not much different. And considering how rampant viruses are on PC and from what I hear android now? (Pretty sure I got some) it's a safer way for average people to get apps. For those wanting more, users can jailbreak. I think jail dealing is better than allowing everyone to just download apps from anywhere as it means users would need to have some computer knowledge and thus are knowingly putting themselves at risk. On windows, this will help moms and dads and grandparents to download apps they didn't know existed or might have been afraid to get due to viruses or malware.

    So thoughts on walled garden? (Sorry for any typos, typed this in landscape on iPhone and you don't get much visibility of what you write!
  2. #2  
    JustMe'D's Avatar

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    Default Re: Walled garden hatred..?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Nieves View Post
    (snipped)Apple has turned down apps for being in appropriate, sometimes just from simple things. It's not apples job to do that they just need parental/age verifications.
    Why not? Does Apple not have the right to do what it can to protect it good name, service, products and customers?
    No I would never want my kids to have access to bad content, but there are ways to prevent that.
    Yes, an the way Apple is doing it is indeed a way. (Snipped)

    So thoughts on walled garden? (Sorry for any typos, typed this in landscape on iPhone and you don't get much visibility of what you write!
    It is widely known about Apple's way of doing things. People know that Apple devices aren't open like that of Android and yet, Apple rakes in billions of dollars. Having said that, walled gardens in this regard is a good thing.
    revtech likes this.
  3. Thread AuthorThread Author   #3  
    Richard Nieves's Avatar
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    Default Re: Walled garden hatred..?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustMe'D View Post
    Why not? Does Apple not have the right to do what it can to protect it good name, service, products and customers? Yes, an the way Apple is doing it is indeed a way. (Snipped)

    It is widely known about Apple's way of doing things. People know that Apple devices aren't open like that of Android and yet, Apple rakes in billions of dollars. Having said that, walled gardens in this regard is a good thing.
    Personally I agree with you on all fronts. I was going for a "universal position. I could care less I don't want or need anything apple doesn't have. However my best friend is of the "I hate apple" group and we argue all the time about apple vs everyone else so I took the approach from my position before really owning an apple device. Once you own one, you realize nothing important isn't in the App Store, when you don't, you think everything is restricted. It's all over tech blogs in the comments ect. Apples way is a way. Is it the right way? Idk. Do I think they need to let some apps in they don't? Personally, I don't care, but others do. Mostly because they want "freedom" and after owning an apple device the perception is so much different than before. Many people I know with android scream about freedom but complain constantly about issues with their phones. They would honestly love ios if they didn't feel the store was so closed. I think jail breaking is the solution for that.

    Ps I was falling asleep while writing the post so I should have indicated that my positions were more based on others from what I got from reading tons of comments. I am fine with apples approach myself.
  4. #4  
    JustMe'D's Avatar

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    Default Re: Walled garden hatred..?

    I understand, sir......I just respond to what I read. Anyway, take care, thanks for the post and have a great weekend...
  5. Thread AuthorThread Author   #5  
    Richard Nieves's Avatar
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    Default Re: Walled garden hatred..?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustMe'D View Post
    I understand, sir......I just respond to what I read. Anyway, take care, thanks for the post and have a great weekend...
    Thanks :-) you too!
  6. #6  
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    Default Re: Walled garden hatred..?

    Personally I like having the option and ability to load apps from outside the official app catalogues. That being said, if the walled garden is well maintained and has a great, quality selection of content, it lessens the need and desire for the majority of people to go beyond its walls. On my Z10 I have to sideload because of a few missing apps I want. On my iPad and iPod, the App Store has rarely left me wanting more.
    revtech likes this.
  7. Thread AuthorThread Author   #7  
    Richard Nieves's Avatar
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    Default Re: Walled garden hatred..?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackBerry Guy View Post
    Personally I like having the option and ability to load apps from outside the official app catalogues. That being said, if the walled garden is well maintained and has a great, quality selection of content, it lessens the need and desire for the majority of people to go beyond its walls. On my Z10 I have to sideload because of a few missing apps I want. On my iPad and iPod, the App Store has rarely left me wanting more.
    Off topic but how is the z10 and the new. Blackberry? As someone who has had both windows phone and ios I do understand that perspective. My thoughts are, if the app stores aren't thriving there needs to be an alternative to get apps, wouldn't be nice if a standard language was used to create apps and that store could work on all phones?
  8. #8  
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    Default Re: Walled garden hatred..?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Nieves View Post
    So I was reading an article on windows 8 in the verge and in the comments a very heated battle about "walled gardens" (basically is only allowing apps through one App Store). Many people's referenced ios of course. I am still fairly new to the iPhone but have had ios devices before. Android has the ability to add apps outside of a market yet all I noticed from doing that was people could get free apps (I was a developer so I was Not about to do that to fellow dev's, but I did do it to try apps I wanted to buy and if I liked them, I bought them) however I know not many people think the same way. I also find that nothing I ever really needed wasn't in the store and if something wasn't, then I couldn't find it outside the store either. In windows case, I understand frustration but at the same time the average person likes to find things easier, and more importantly, find things that work and aren't virus infested. I am ALL for virus free and stable software. It's one of the reasons I like apple over android. I do like freedom, but not at the expense of stability and the irony to me, is that there are more polished apps on ios than android, INCLUDING apps not in the market. I love not having to search the Internet for apps I want then hope they are ok. The walled garden thing helps us all. Is apple too restrictive? Yes, not because they are strict on interface or coding but content. Apple has turned down apps for being in appropriate, sometimes just from simple things. It's not apples job to do that they just need parental/age verifications. No I would never want my kids to have access to bad content, but there are ways to prevent that. However, other than that, a walled garden isn't a huge big deal. Most physical products go through certification, this is not much different. And considering how rampant viruses are on PC and from what I hear android now? (Pretty sure I got some) it's a safer way for average people to get apps. For those wanting more, users can jailbreak. I think jail dealing is better than allowing everyone to just download apps from anywhere as it means users would need to have some computer knowledge and thus are knowingly putting themselves at risk. On windows, this will help moms and dads and grandparents to download apps they didn't know existed or might have been afraid to get due to viruses or malware.

    So thoughts on walled garden? (Sorry for any typos, typed this in landscape on iPhone and you don't get much visibility of what you write!
    The "walled garden" IMO is really very poorly walled and guarded. The ONLY thing you cannot do with an iOS device is install applications outside of the App Store. If it was a true walled garden IMO then the only apps and services on iOS would be iCloud, iTunes, the App Store, and what ever Apple wants on there. Looking at my iPhone right now I see Google Maps, Gmail, Facebook, Weatherbug, ESPN, SkyDrive, Outlook.com, Skype...I could probably go on all week. Nothing walled or proprietary about that IMO.

    Go and pick up an Android phone of someone who has never heard of Android Central or iMore. Their Android phone will not have any side loaded apps. It will not have a custom ROM. It will probably look nearly stock with only their preferred apps on the home screen. It will look very similar to an iPhone home screen, all the most popular apps.

    They've had too much Google kool-aid about free and open while Google is laughing all the way to the bank with their personal information. Unless you have a Nexus phone your bootloader is just as locked as an iPhone most cases. Just because you can unlock it doesn't mean you should, need to be, or that most even have that desire. Every person that owns a car can open the hood and take out the engine if they wanted. But how many of you do that? It would be equally bad if most people started messing with their phone's ROM. It is just something fun a select few can access. But for over 98% of us that is just a waste of time. For that same percentage arguing that your phone can sideload apps and has an unlocked bootload is just as much a waste of time.
    Karenkcoulter and revtech like this.
  9. #9  
    swarlos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Walled garden hatred..?

    Quote Originally Posted by sting7k View Post
    The "walled garden" IMO is really very poorly walled and guarded. The ONLY thing you cannot do with an iOS device is install applications outside of the App Store. If it was a true walled garden IMO then the only apps and services on iOS would be iCloud, iTunes, the App Store, and what ever Apple wants on there. Looking at my iPhone right now I see Google Maps, Gmail, Facebook, Weatherbug, ESPN, SkyDrive, Outlook.com, Skype...I could probably go on all week. Nothing walled or proprietary about that IMO.

    Go and pick up an Android phone of someone who has never heard of Android Central or iMore. Their Android phone will not have any side loaded apps. It will not have a custom ROM. It will probably look nearly stock with only their preferred apps on the home screen. It will look very similar to an iPhone home screen, all the most popular apps.

    They've had too much Google kool-aid about free and open while Google is laughing all the way to the bank with their personal information. Unless you have a Nexus phone your bootloader is just as locked as an iPhone most cases. Just because you can unlock it doesn't mean you should, need to be, or that most even have that desire. Every person that owns a car can open the hood and take out the engine if they wanted. But how many of you do that? It would be equally bad if most people started messing with their phone's ROM. It is just something fun a select few can access. But for over 98% of us that is just a waste of time. For that same percentage arguing that your phone can sideload apps and has an unlocked bootload is just as much a waste of time.
    Yes and you're also forgetting the all important customization argument and how you can make your phone look like anything you want!!
    I was on that side of the fence and it gets old and just as boring to constantly be changing your launcher, widgets and icon arrangement.


    Sent from the collector home world.
    revtech likes this.
  10. #10  
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    Default Re: Walled garden hatred..?

    The term "walled garden" sounds absurd.
    "Speed has never killed anyone; suddenly becoming stationary...that's what gets you." - Jeremy Clarkson
  11. #11  
    JustMe'D's Avatar

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    Default Re: Walled garden hatred..?

    Quote Originally Posted by sting7k View Post
    The "walled garden" IMO is really very poorly walled and guarded. The ONLY thing you cannot do with an iOS device is install applications outside of the App Store. If it was a true walled garden IMO then the only apps and services on iOS would be iCloud, iTunes, the App Store, and what ever Apple wants on there. Looking at my iPhone right now I see Google Maps, Gmail, Facebook, Weatherbug, ESPN, SkyDrive, Outlook.com, Skype...I could probably go on all week. Nothing walled or proprietary about that IMO.

    Go and pick up an Android phone of someone who has never heard of Android Central or iMore. Their Android phone will not have any side loaded apps. It will not have a custom ROM. It will probably look nearly stock with only their preferred apps on the home screen. It will look very similar to an iPhone home screen, all the most popular apps.

    They've had too much Google kool-aid about free and open while Google is laughing all the way to the bank with their personal information. Unless you have a Nexus phone your bootloader is just as locked as an iPhone most cases. Just because you can unlock it doesn't mean you should, need to be, or that most even have that desire. Every person that owns a car can open the hood and take out the engine if they wanted. But how many of you do that? It would be equally bad if most people started messing with their phone's ROM. It is just something fun a select few can access. But for over 98% of us that is just a waste of time. For that same percentage arguing that your phone can sideload apps and has an unlocked bootload is just as much a waste of time.
    Outstanding!...
  12. #12  
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    Default Re: Walled garden hatred..?

    Quote Originally Posted by swarlos View Post
    Yes and you're also forgetting the all important customization argument and how you can make your phone look like anything you want!!
    I was on that side of the fence and it gets old and just as boring to constantly be changing your launcher, widgets and icon arrangement.


    Sent from the collector home world.
    You have just described quite a few of my friends. They bought android phones primarily for that larger screen, and don't really use it for much outside of basic tasks like calls, messages, email, web browsing, photos and some apps like Dropbox.

    I am a primary iphone user, and I have to show them what services like s-voice and google now and their stylus can do.

    They don't even bother with basic customization like widgets, sd-cards, don't know what NFC can do or possess spare batteries.

    This makes me wonder - if a phone lacks a certain feature which you will never use, is it of any real loss to you?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Karenkcoulter likes this.
  13. #13  
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    Default Re: Walled garden hatred..?

    I understand the reason for the "walled garden" (for lack of a better term) approach, in controlling exactly what software gets installed. Apple is much more concerned about user experience and perception than Android is, and keeps a tighter control on what goes on their devices. Obvious upside is the (almost) complete lack of malware on iOS devices.

    At the same time, sideloading isn't only a bad thing. When I had my Android tablet, I was a big fan of the various Humble Bundle deals that gave you a bunch of popular apps for pretty cheap, and were installed via sideloading. I was able to get the official Sword and Sorcery, Super Hexagon, and other popular games in a nice inexpensive bundle that went to charity. Can't do that with an iPad. Bummer.
  14. #14  
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    Default Re: Walled garden hatred..?

    Quote Originally Posted by swarlos View Post
    Yes and you're also forgetting the all important customization argument and how you can make your phone look like anything you want!!
    I was on that side of the fence and it gets old and just as boring to constantly be changing your launcher, widgets and icon arrangement.


    Sent from the collector home world.
    Couldn't relate more to this post. I've tried several Android devices out simply for the customization aspect. However, after a few days and weeks I simply didn't care anymore and found myself using my iPhones again. My iPhone 5 is Jailbroken and that offers me all the customization that I need at this point.


    Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
    swarlos likes this.
  15. #15  
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    Default Re: Walled garden hatred..?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Nieves View Post
    Off topic but how is the z10 and the new. Blackberry? As someone who has had both windows phone and ios I do understand that perspective.
    The Z10 is a thoroughly modern smartphone. The hardware is decent, though no where near the newest Android phones. It runs well for it's intended purpose though, and you never feel like it needs beefier specs. The camera is good, though not as good as those found in the newest iOS devices. The BlackBerry 10 OS is nothing like the java OS of old. It's smooth, fluid, and is extremely easy to navigate with one thumb once you get use to the new interface. The one glaring weakness that can stop it from becoming a big success would be the lack of apps. The app catalog in BlackBerry World has gotten better, but not on par or even competitive with Google Play or the App Store. Without the apps, consumers are provided very little incentive to switch from one of the other more app rich platforms.

    Quote Originally Posted by abazigal View Post
    This makes me wonder - if a phone lacks a certain feature which you will never use, is it of any real loss to you?
    To that particular user, no. That's why as cliche as it sounds, it's important to get devices that suit your particular needs, purposes and expectations the best. If a platform no longer works for you and you feel something else may be "better" for you, then switch. Leave the pi$$ing over spec sheets and features that you may or may not use to the fanboys.
  16. #16  
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    Default Re: Walled garden hatred..?

    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Rose View Post
    Couldn't relate more to this post. I've tried several Android devices out simply for the customization aspect. However, after a few days and weeks I simply didn't care anymore and found myself using my iPhones again. My iPhone 5 is Jailbroken and that offers me all the customization that I need at this point.


    Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
    I was 100% android for 2 years and never even looked at an iPhone or iPad (talk about living in denial!). Once I moved to my iPhone 5 I thought why did I not do this from the start. Now I have an iPad 4 as well.

    Q. Do I missed the widgets, the call delay (2 of 4 androids did this to me) and the force closing apps?
    A. Not one bit.
  17. #17  
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    Default Re: Walled garden hatred..?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Nieves View Post
    So I was reading an article on windows 8 in the verge and in the comments a very heated battle about "walled gardens" (basically is only allowing apps through one App Store). Many people's referenced ios of course.
    <Snip>
    So thoughts on walled garden? (Sorry for any typos, typed this in landscape on iPhone and you don't get much visibility of what you write!
    WinMob8 is also a walled garden. Some people say its even more restrictive than iOS. Apple might be a walled garden, but it is a large walled garden. If Apple listens to the suggestions I made in the "what do you want to see in iOS 7 " thread, it will be an even bigger garden.

    While you can't separate me from my iMac, iPad, and iPod Nano, I don't have an iPhone. When I went to upgrade my BB, I fell for 4.7" 1080 screen and dual front facing speakers.

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