Anybody planning to buying at launch only to sell at a markup? Is that wrong?

[HankAZ]

I'm not too familiar with The Wire but this comment made me wonder whether people with "experience" in the incarceration department enjoy Orange Is The New Black as much as the rest of us do. :laughing:

... and .... we're off the rails...

 

[anon(4698833)]

I'm not too familiar with The Wire but this comment made me wonder whether people with "experience" in the incarceration department enjoy Orange Is The New Black as much as the rest of us do. :laughing:

Spent the better part of the last 15 years as a LEO...enjoyed the hell out of the first season, but lost interest in the 2nd season (just seemed a bit redundant to me). Interestingly, their portrayal of a women's prison is fairly accurate (albeit a bit light hearted...they got the uncomfortable part right, but they missed the mark, in my opinion, on the camaraderie...if there's something you learn in prison, it's that you never trust a single person EVER until you leave, lol).

 

[anon(4698833)]

... and .... we're off the rails...

Seems a lot more fruitful to discuss Netflix shows vs. trying to convince some guy that his idea of what "scalping" is is ridiculous...over and over and over and over and over again.

 

[JakePleasants]

... and .... we're off the rails...

Should we go back to beating the dead horse?

Spent the better part of the last 15 years as a LEO...enjoyed the hell out of the first season, but lost interest in the 2nd season (just seemed a bit redundant to me). Interestingly, their portrayal of a women's prison is fairly accurate (albeit a bit light hearted...they got the uncomfortable part right, but they missed the mark, in my opinion, on the camaraderie...if there's something you learn in prison, it's that you never trust a single person EVER until you leave, lol).

I remembered reading that you were, I believe Karen said for the FBI, more specifically? I have some exposure to the lifestyle because my dad is a captain and my brother is a detective for my local city, but I've never really asked too many questions about the lockup side of it. I absolutely agree that the first season was stronger but I think the light-hearted side is probably necessary because it is entertainment after all and I'm sure they don't want it to get too depressing. I am surprised about the lack of camaraderie, though. Obviously people in jail are generally there for a good reason but I would think that the experience would either push you to find someone to trust and rely on or to completely isolate yourself, which it sounds as though your experience points to the latter, but I'd think that to be the unhealthier option. Although, it is prison that we're talking about after all.

Seems a lot more fruitful to discuss Netflix shows vs. trying to convince some guy that his idea of what "scalping" is is ridiculous...over and over and over and over and over again.

Wise man. Speaking of which, I need to give Daredevil a try.

 

[jean15paul]

"I'm not a business man. I'm a business, man."

Sorry couldn't resist.

No props for a quality Jay Z reference?

 

[Ipheuria]

There are a lot of things that may "suck" but are not necessarily "wrong".

It might "suck" that that it has rained for 5 straight days. But that doesn't mean that it is "wrong".
It might "suck" that the Apple Watch costs $349 (to start). But that doesn't mean that it is "wrong".
It might "suck" that your favorite basketball team got eliminated from the playoffs in January. But that doesn't make it "wrong".
It might "suck" that it gets cold in the winter in Boston. But that doesn't make it "wrong".

Your rationale is flawed.

I was thinking this exact kind of thing last night after reading that statement lol

Imagine how wrong Mae West was for sucking so much.

This just made me lol

You're talking old school here, my friend. Such common sense is reminiscent of the American way in regard to free markets. Didn't you get the memo that such thinking is outdated, old-fashioned and simply uncool in 2015?........C'mon man, get with the today's program. Be entitled to things...(laughing)

As a kid of the third world country, born in Jamaica West Indies. Entitlement is not in my vocabulary

 

[Ipheuria]

I have one simple question for all those who feel this is wrong.

Let's imagine that for some reason all the Watch units on Ebay are below the prices Apple is selling the watches at. The watches were still bought by "scalpers" and by the reasoning expressed. Customers who actually wanted the watch couldn't get it because of said "scalpers". Is it still wrong?

 

[Scatabrain]

I have one simple question for all those who feel this is wrong.

Let's imagine that for some reason all the Watch units on Ebay are below the prices Apple is selling the watches at. The watches were still bought by "scalpers" and by the reasoning expressed. Customers who actually wanted the watch couldn't get it because of said "scalpers". Is it still wrong?

That's some twisted logic. That's like saying "imagine if a fire didn't burn down a building, would you still want to prevent fires."

And the other stuff someone said above comparing other unavoidable things to scalping. This is not unavoidable. People can choose not to take advantage of other people.

I really think no one has put up a real argument for why it is not wrong. There were a few honest responses above saying that greed and taking advantage are fine with them. At least that's straight to the point.

Everything else has been comparing apples to oranges, parsing words and name calling. Not a good debate at all. The best argument besides 'greed is good' that anyone can make is that it's an unfortunate side effect.

That's just not good enough for me. For me if it's a little wrong - it's wrong.

It certainly tarnishes Apple product launches for most normal folks. There were lots of negative reactions from some here on the forums who woke up early before work and getting a June ship date - one guy shouted >??% Apple. Same on my FB feed from normal folk who think we are all sheep. Even the Apple retail folks I talked with that had June ship dates were struggling to smile about it.

I guess it shouldn't surprise me that many feel that it's ok to be able to make a few bucks at the expense of someone else who now has to wait or pay up.


Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk

 

[Ipheuria]

That's some twisted logic. That's like saying "imagine if a fire didn't burn down a building, would you still want to prevent fires."

And the other stuff someone said above comparing other unavoidable things to scalping. This is not unavoidable. People can choose not to take advantage of other people.

I really think no one has put up a real argument for why it is not wrong. There were a few honest responses above saying that greed and taking advantage are fine with them. At least that's straight to the point.

Everything else has been comparing apples to oranges, parsing words and name calling. Not a good debate at all. The best argument besides 'greed is good' that anyone can make is that it's an unfortunate side effect.

That's just not good enough for me. For me if it's a little wrong - it's wrong.

It certainly tarnishes Apple product launches for most normal folks. There were lots of negative reactions from some here on the forums who woke up early before work and getting a June ship date - one guy shouted >€?% Apple. Same on my FB feed from normal folk who think we are all sheep. Even the Apple retail folks I talked with that had June ship dates were struggling to smile about it.

I guess it shouldn't surprise me that many feel that it's ok to be able to make a few bucks at the expense of someone else who now has to wait or pay up.


Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk

Actually it's not twisted logic there are many factors that could make this happen. If Apple decided to put the factories on overtime to ramp up inventory. If ship times fell from 1 month to a couple of weeks. There are watches on Ebay that will disappear as the seller sends it back to Apple. However there are ones that wont be able to be returned. If there is an abundance of supply from Apple then the sellers only option to generate views and recoup as much of their cash as possible is to sell at a lower price.

Anyway it was my final question I've said what I feel and so have many others. We are not trying to convince anyone that they are wrong that is futile and forums have been proving that forever. We are just trying to show why there is nothing wrong with buying the Watch then selling for a profit.

PS
Yes I'm a greedy SOB and I have no problem buying a $800 watch and selling it for $1000 if someone is willing to buy it. BTW the people who have a problem with getting a ship date of June after getting up at 3AM. I hate to break it to you but even if NO ONE had Watches on EBay that wouldn't make anything better for them. They would still have a long *** ship date and they would still say F&*$ Apple and they would still be pissed off. Somoene said it best here, you are cursing at Apple for having to wait 2 months #FWP. Anyone that doesn't think this is so I would gladly swap my Watch on launch day with you. Why because I can wait 2 months.

 

[smileyboy]

That's some twisted logic. That's like saying "imagine if a fire didn't burn down a building, would you still want to prevent fires."

And the other stuff someone said above comparing other unavoidable things to scalping. This is not unavoidable. People can choose not to take advantage of other people.

I really think no one has put up a real argument for why it is not wrong. There were a few honest responses above saying that greed and taking advantage are fine with them. At least that's straight to the point.

Everything else has been comparing apples to oranges, parsing words and name calling. Not a good debate at all. The best argument besides 'greed is good' that anyone can make is that it's an unfortunate side effect.

That's just not good enough for me. For me if it's a little wrong - it's wrong.

It certainly tarnishes Apple product launches for most normal folks. There were lots of negative reactions from some here on the forums who woke up early before work and getting a June ship date - one guy shouted >€?% Apple. Same on my FB feed from normal folk who think we are all sheep. Even the Apple retail folks I talked with that had June ship dates were struggling to smile about it.

I guess it shouldn't surprise me that many feel that it's ok to be able to make a few bucks at the expense of someone else who now has to wait or pay up.


Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk

it's really simple... Don't buy it.... You got to respect the hustle!

 

[anon(4698833)]

I guess it shouldn't surprise me that many feel that it's ok to be able to make a few bucks at the expense of someone else who now has to wait or pay up.

This continues to be where I just get baffled at your responses..."At the expense of"...how do you figure? Did I prevent that person from getting up early or staying up to pre-order the device to get it on launch day? Did I prevent that person from getting in line at their local Apple store early to get an iPhone on the release day?

How do you assign blame to the person who DID do these things because another person decided NOT to do those things? In what reality is that logic sound?

Let's make a hypothetical situation here...let's say there is a delicious pizza joint locally that starts serving pizza at 3pm, and serves it until their pizza is gone. Now lets say that every day, a line forms 2 hours before the pizza place opens, and based on the line, EVERY DAY, pizza is usually completely gone by 5pm (but more will be available the next day in the same scenario). There is a 2 slice limit to what each person can buy.

Now today, I got up at 1pm and went and got in line...I was one of the first people in line and I got my 2 slices when they started making pizza. I go and sit down at the table but by now it's 5pm and there are no more pizzas for anyone walking up...so someone starts offering to buy my slices for twice what I paid for them. I'm eating one of them, but decide I'm not hungry enough to eat the second one, so I sell it to this person for what he offers. This person gets a slice of the delicious pizza, didn't have to wait in line for it and got it after the stock of pizza was completely gone for that day.

How the hell do you figure I just did something wrong? This person just paid me extra for the convenience of not having to wait in line that day for pizza he wanted...should I have simply let him buy the pizza for what I paid even though I put in the work to get it? Should I have sacrificed the extra piece that i MIGHT have wanted in the idea that someone who showed up later might want a piece without having to make the sacrifice or time or effort that I did?

In what world is that the way things work in reality? In what world is it "wrong" to charge people for convenience? Because I'm pretty sure that is how our entire way of consumer life is defined.

This has become so redundant it's hilarious...but I'm going to continue to retort to this in the same exact way because it is simply baffling to me that a person, even ONE person, sits and thinks that the world owes them something to the extent that they would call the free market economy practices "wrong".

I think the problem you have is that you assign things you don't like as being "wrong", when in reality, they aren't "wrong" at all. I mean I don't LIKE the fact that living in the city costs more than living in the suburbs...but by no means do I think the people charging more for a mortgage on my condo downtown are "wrong" because some guy got a 5 bedroom house in the suburbs for the same price.

 

[Just_Me_D]

This continues to be where I just get baffled at your responses..."At the expense of"...how do you figure? Did I prevent that person from getting up early or staying up to pre-order the device to get it on launch day? Did I prevent that person from getting in line at their local Apple store early to get an iPhone on the release day?

How do you assign blame to the person who DID do these things because another person decided NOT to do those things? In what reality is that logic sound?

Let's make a hypothetical situation here...let's say there is a delicious pizza joint locally that starts service pizza at 3pm, and serves it until their pizza is gone. Now lets say that every day, a line forms 2 hours before the pizza place opens, and based on the line, EVERY DAY, pizza is usually completely gone by 5pm (but more will be available the next day in the same scenario). There is a 2 slice limit to what each person can buy.

Now today, I got up at 1pm and went and got in line...I was one of the first people in line and I got my 2 slices when they started making pizza. I go and sit down at the table but by now it's 5pm and there are no more pizza for anyone walking up...so someone starts offering to buy my slices for twice what I paid for them. I'm eating one of them, but decide I'm not hungry enough to eat the second one, so I sell it to this person for what he offers. This person gets a slice of the delicious pizza, didn't have to wait in line for it and got it after the stock of pizza was completely gone for that day.

How the hell do you figure I just did something wrong? This person just paid me extra for the convenience of not having to wait in line that day for pizza he wanted...should I have simply let him buy the pizza for what I paid even though I put in the work to get it? Should I have sacrificed the extra piece that i MIGHT have wanted in the idea that someone who showed up later might want a piece without having to make the sacrifice or time or effort that I did?

In what world is that the way things work in reality? I what world is it "wrong" to charge people for convenience? Because I'm pretty sure that is how our entire way of consumer life is defined.

This has become so redundant it's hilarious...but I'm going to continue to retort to this in the same exact way because it is simply baffling to me that a person, even ONE person, sits and thinks that the world owes them something to the extent that they would call the free market economy practices "wrong".

I mean I don't LIKE the fact that living in the city costs more than living in the suburbs...but by no means do I think the people charging more for a mortgage on my condo downtown are "wrong" because some guy got a 5 bedroom house in the suburbs for the same price.

Let's be real...It doesn't get any clearer than this....

 

[Septembersrain]

I personally won't do that to others but it's really up to each person. Some people will find the profit worth it. Some will pay extra to have it right away.

I see nothing wrong with that. That's been done for years on products both privately and corporately sold.

 

[HankAZ]

This continues to be where I just get baffled at your responses..."At the expense of"...how do you figure? Did I prevent that person from getting up early or staying up to pre-order the device to get it on launch day? Did I prevent that person from getting in line at their local Apple store early to get an iPhone on the release day?

How do you assign blame to the person who DID do these things because another person decided NOT to do those things? In what reality is that logic sound?

C'mon, Sean. Scatabrain should be able get what he wants on the terms that he wants. It's the (new) American way. It's called "entitlement".

There's no point in even continuing this "debate".

 

[anon(4698833)]

C'mon, Sean. Scatabrain should be able get what he wants on the terms that he wants. It's the (new) American way. It's called "entitlement".

There's no point in even continuing this "debate".

Truth is, I enjoy debating this...because so far, he hasn't presented one legitimate argument against what I've said, only reverting back to a "Because I think it is" defense, which is pathetic.

 

[Scatabrain]

Truth is, I enjoy debating this...because so far, he hasn't presented one legitimate argument against what I've said, only reverting back to a "Because I think it is" defense, which is pathetic.

I disagree. I explained why you the debate has missed the mark. We just don't agree. I have to work and usually enjoy Sean's arguments but dang that's too much to read when there's work to do.


Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk

 

[Scatabrain]

C'mon, Sean. Scatabrain should be able get what he wants on the terms that he wants. It's the (new) American way. It's called "entitlement".

There's no point in even continuing this "debate".

Took you all way too long to come out with this this time.


Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk

 

[Ipheuria]

I enjoyed this debate as well. I've been a member of lots of forums over the years. This debate went back and forth but there was very little personal attacks which to me shows the maturity of iMore's forums. Like I said before No one on a forum is ever going to convince another person that they are wrong. However I think all the people who have said there is nothing wrong have proven their point a million times over.

 

[Scatabrain]

This continues to be where I just get baffled at your responses..."At the expense of"...how do you figure? Did I prevent that person from getting up early or staying up to pre-order the device to get it on launch day? Did I prevent that person from getting in line at their local Apple store early to get an iPhone on the release day?

How do you assign blame to the person who DID do these things because another person decided NOT to do those things? In what reality is that logic sound?

Let's make a hypothetical situation here...let's say there is a delicious pizza joint locally that starts serving pizza at 3pm, and serves it until their pizza is gone. Now lets say that every day, a line forms 2 hours before the pizza place opens, and based on the line, EVERY DAY, pizza is usually completely gone by 5pm (but more will be available the next day in the same scenario). There is a 2 slice limit to what each person can buy.

Now today, I got up at 1pm and went and got in line...I was one of the first people in line and I got my 2 slices when they started making pizza. I go and sit down at the table but by now it's 5pm and there are no more pizzas for anyone walking up...so someone starts offering to buy my slices for twice what I paid for them. I'm eating one of them, but decide I'm not hungry enough to eat the second one, so I sell it to this person for what he offers. This person gets a slice of the delicious pizza, didn't have to wait in line for it and got it after the stock of pizza was completely gone for that day.

How the hell do you figure I just did something wrong? This person just paid me extra for the convenience of not having to wait in line that day for pizza he wanted...should I have simply let him buy the pizza for what I paid even though I put in the work to get it? Should I have sacrificed the extra piece that i MIGHT have wanted in the idea that someone who showed up later might want a piece without having to make the sacrifice or time or effort that I did?

In what world is that the way things work in reality? In what world is it "wrong" to charge people for convenience? Because I'm pretty sure that is how our entire way of consumer life is defined.

This has become so redundant it's hilarious...but I'm going to continue to retort to this in the same exact way because it is simply baffling to me that a person, even ONE person, sits and thinks that the world owes them something to the extent that they would call the free market economy practices "wrong".

I think the problem you have is that you assign things you don't like as being "wrong", when in reality, they aren't "wrong" at all. I mean I don't LIKE the fact that living in the city costs more than living in the suburbs...but by no means do I think the people charging more for a mortgage on my condo downtown are "wrong" because some guy got a 5 bedroom house in the suburbs for the same price.

(Sean knows I can't resist)

To make the analogy work, let's make it a new special pizza that once they run out of the first day's supply won't be available for weeks and months.

Let's say that all the people in line are not going to eat the pizza but instead go on ebay and mark it up.

Let's also say that there are only a half a dozen places that have even attempted to make these smart pizzas and this new one is truly the first one to get it right.

Let's also say that this causes a frenzy that makes some write bad reviews about the shop, others to avoid it and many look down on the sheep for paying for the pizza on ebay.

Alright now we are on the same page with the analogy.

Sean keeps saying I ignore his questions and haven't explained how scalping is taking advantage.

Here's the problem: with the pizza being pricey enough, the very limited supply, and the excitement of the launch has attracted scalpers. Scalpers understand how they can take advantage even if Sean doesn't. So they stack the line so only scalpers get pizza.

That is NOT how the pizza shop wants to do business. They intended to sell their pizza direct to customers. But instead there is someone in their way exploiting the excitement they have created with their customers for profit.

Now back to the watch launch. The scalpers weren't that effective this time. I see the worst case scenario. There is evidence for this looking at phone launches. Listen to the imore crew talk about reporters who have interviewed the people on a line and had to ask a lot of people before finding an actual end customer.

Sean, now do you get it? You don't have to agree but now can you admit that I have a point of view and maybe even a basis for it?

BTW: I have a 4/24 ship date. I don't expect any favors from anyone. I also don't choose to interfere with others. What the heck is wrong with that? It was probably useless name calling for humor but I bet some cheered and said - yeah so entitled.




Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk

 

[Ipheuria]

(Sean knows I can't resist)

To make the analogy work, let's make it a new special pizza that once they run out of the first day's supply won't be available for weeks and months.

Let's say that all the people in line are not going to eat the pizza but instead go on ebay and mark it up.

Let's also say that there are only a half a dozen places that have even attempted to make these smart pizzas and this new one is truly the first one to get it right.

Let's also say that this causes a frenzy that makes some write bad reviews about the shop, others to avoid it and many look down on the sheep for paying for the pizza on ebay.

Alright now we are on the same page with the analogy.

Sean keeps saying I ignore his questions and haven't explained how scalping is taking advantage.

Here's the problem: with the pizza being pricey enough, the very limited supply, and the excitement of the launch has attracted scalpers. Scalpers understand how they can take advantage even if Sean doesn't. So they stack the line so only scalpers get pizza.

That is NOT how the pizza shop wants to do business. They intended to sell their pizza direct to customers. But instead there is someone in their way exploiting the excitement they have created with their customers for profit.

Now back to the watch launch. The scalpers weren't that effective this time. I see the worst case scenario. There is evidence for this looking at phone launches. Listen to the imore crew talk about reporters who have interviewed the people on a line and had to ask a lot of people before finding an actual end customer.

Sean, now do you get it? You don't have to agree but now can you admit that I have a point of view and maybe even a basis for it?

BTW: I have a 4/24 ship date. I don't expect any favors from anyone. I also don't choose to interfere with others. What the heck is wrong with that? It was probably useless name calling for humor but I bet some cheered and said - yeah so entitled.




Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk

The question this thread asked was if it is wrong. It didn't ask if it sucked it asked if it is wrong. Now lets say I go along with your analogy. I'm at the end of the line and all the people ahead of me scoop up pizza and take off to put it up on EBay. I hear the shop owner shout out that there are no more pizzas so come back in two months if you still want a slice. Would I be mad sure I would be mad because I stood in line and got no pizza. Would I pay $800 for the $600 slice of pizza "Are you out of your Fing mind?". What I would honestly do is go home and come back in two months when there are lots of pizzas and pay $600 eat my pizza and go home. You are saying it's wrong for them to sell the pizza for $800 but you don't give a reason why.
Is it wrong because the people who really wanted to eat pizza couldn't eat pizza? So like I said before if none of those "scalpers" were in line and I still didn't end up getting pizza then it's just tough luck come back in two months right?
Is it wrong because they are making a profit? then if they are losing money that would make it right?